News CENTRAL/S. ASIA: 'False pretext' used in Afghan war

...

Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, who leads a faction of the Hizb-e Islami group, said that the war launched against the Taliban and al-Qaeda by the US in 2001 was not justified as the September 11 attacks had not been carried out by Afghans.

"No Afghan has taken any military action against you in Europe and the US. The September 11 attacks were planned in Europe and the US and not in Afghanistan or Iraq," he said in a video released on Tuesday....

"Those who carried it out were people born in the US and Europe and they were trained there. They were not Afghans and they never got training in Afghanistan," he said.

"Everyone knows the pilot training was done in the US and the plan of the operation was hatched there."

You can dismiss it as enemy propaganda but seriously, they can dismiss your propaganda in the same manner... who is right, who is right? How can we find out?

Help me out someone...

[edit on 7-10-2009 by oozyism]

A group of people living in caves and ghettos with little to no water supply and electricity could never have carried out such a coordinated and skillful operation against the world's greatest defense system, especially with the pentagon and NASA monitoring the skies and space. The official 911 story is a joke...



I am wondering why they need to send another 40000 troops to a country that has little to almost no resistance!!!

Well - cant believe Im responding to this. Really, these are things everyone on ATS should know well.

The trade center attacks were almost certainly planned and executed by the CIA and Mossad working together.

There is a million tons of evidence to back that up - go do some research.

Afganistan has been invaded for several reasons. One is to restart the opium trade for the Rothschilds, which the taliban reduced to almost zero. The other reason is to ensure control of the area for purposes of building oil and gas lines - and also exploiting its natural resources.

Iraq was basically the same sort of thing - as are all the US wars of aggression - simply measures to enforce the globalists control over geography and resources.

Everyone should get out of Afganistan - stop killing innocent people for profit.

I highly recommend the following site for up to date non-mainstream news. www.informationclearinghouse.info...

[edit on 7-10-2009 by Amagnon]

reply to post by oozyism


Hmm... Who do I believe? I can tell you who I most certainly do not believe. Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, that's who. Perhaps instead of just hunting down any and everything possible with which to put forth your anti-American nonsense you could actually look at who it is you're quoting next time.

Afghanistan: Skeptics Urge Caution Over Purported Hekmatyar Cease-fire
It was the conservative Islamist Hekmatyar's measures that prohibited the broadcast of music from Kabul Radio and television before the rise of the Taliban. Hekmatyar also ordered women to wear strict "Islamic" dress before he and Rabbani were expelled from Kabul by the Taliban.

After the collapse of the Taliban regime in late 2001, Hekmatyar continued to wage war as a renegade figure, fighting against Afghan government and the international security forces in Afghanistan.

In 2006, Hekmatyar appeared in a video aired on the Arabic language Al-Jazeera television station and declared he wanted his forces to fight alongside Al-Qaeda.

This guy's so much of a nutcase that even the Taliban kicked him out of Kabul.

Wikipedia
From 1992 to 1996 the warring factions destroyed most of Kabul and killed thousands of people, most of them civilians during the Afghan civil war. All the different parties participated in the destruction, but Hekmatyar's group was responsible for most of the damage, because of his practice of deliberately targeting civilian areas. Hekmatyar is thought to have bombarded Kabul in retaliation for what he considered its inhabitants collaboration with the Soviets, and out of religious conviction. He once told a New York Times journalist that Afghanistan "already had one and a half million martyrs. We are ready to offer as many to establish a true Islamic Republic." His attacks also had a political objective: to undermine the Rabbani government by proving that Rabbani and Massoud were unable to protect the population.

Go ahead and believe a man who made it a habit to deliberately target civilian areas during the Afghan civil war. Frankly I'd be quicker to believe in Santa Clause than to believe a word coming from that man's mouth.

reply to post by oozyism


of course Hekmatyar is right, as far as he takes it. Problem is, he doesn't take it far enough, and completely misrepresents the reason for the war on Al-Quaeda and the Taliban.

What's a little misrepresentation and misdirection amongst friends, eh?

While what he says is so, he fails to carry it on into the realm of Al-Qaeda taking responsibility for the actions, declaring war on the US. In that matter, it matters not where the training was taken, nor the national source of the jihadists. They did what they did, and then crowed about it. They declared war on us, and now whine because we accepted the challenge.

How disingenuous.

In the matter of the Taliban, they gave aid and comfort to a declared enemy, stood shoulder to shoulder with them, and refused to give them up to justice.

When you eat at the same table, don't complain about the fare. In allying themselves with the enemies of America, they made themselves enemies too.

More's the pity. Had they not done so, and had they done the right thing and given up the braggart Al-Qaeda leadership, they could have gotten back to executing their women in the soccer stadium with impunity. America would have dealt with Al-Qaeda, and gone back to leaving the Taliban alone to terrorize their own people with nary a whimper from us.

You ARE familiar with the warlord Gulbuddin Hekmatyar's history, aren't you?

Gee. A country full of jihadist training camps.

What's not to , , , bomb?

You MUST be an Iranian agent.

Because no one could be as historically ignorant, intellectually confused, willfully contentious, and anti-American as you are.

A real piece of work.

reply to post by Jenna


Maybe because every speech he made he never was short in criticizing America for their idiotic policies in Muslims nations. So ofcurs it is not a good thing, and every speech he used to make he used to say death to America.

Go ahead and believe a man who made it a habit to deliberately target civilian areas during the Afghan civil war.

Western propaganda, demonize your enemies so everyone hates them then it makes the job easier. I would do the same to you if I was your enemy.

Anyways what does that have to do with him telling the truth or not? America has targeted civilians many times before, Iraq and Afghanistan included, so you believe them?

Plus what he said doesn't need any backing since it is true that all the supposed participants of 9/11 were raised and trained in Western countries. That being said makes the Western nations guilty for harboring terrorists. And he is right that none of them was from Afghanistan...

Originally posted by nenothtu
reply to post by oozyism

 

of course Hekmatyar is right, as far as he takes it. Problem is, he doesn't take it far enough, and completely misrepresents the reason for the war on Al-Quaeda and the Taliban.

OK let's see where this one goes..

What's a little misrepresentation and misdirection amongst friends, eh?

OK let's see where this one goes..

While what he says is so, he fails to carry it on into the realm of Al-Qaeda taking responsibility for the actions, declaring war on the US. In that matter, it matters not where the training was taken, nor the national source of the jihadists. They did what they did, and then crowed about it. They declared war on us, and now whine because we accepted the challenge.

OK read what OSAMA said:

"I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie.

"I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act.

"Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle."

How disingenuous.

I wish I knew what that meant..

In the matter of the Taliban, they gave aid and comfort to a declared enemy, stood shoulder to shoulder with them, and refused to give them up to justice.

No they asked for evidence which links Al-Qaeda with 9/11.. then they said they would hand him over.. America refused.. America bombed a country because of Osama without any proof then "The Bush-Cheney administration promised to publicly publish the evidence against bin Laden, but the evidence against bin Laden was never actually published for the public to see."

When you eat at the same table, don't complain about the fare. In allying themselves with the enemies of America, they made themselves enemies too.

When you eat the same war propaganda for the last 8 years... ahh not worth it.

More's the pity. Had they not done so, and had they done the right thing and given up the braggart Al-Qaeda leadership, they could have gotten back to executing their women in the soccer stadium with impunity. America would have dealt with Al-Qaeda, and gone back to leaving the Taliban alone to terrorize their own people with nary a whimper from us.

Yeah then the US could have continued with its own terror by sending couple of more million of its citizens to dungeons, locked away from the society... Yeah they are afraid of the police, talk about terrorism..

You ARE familiar with the warlord Gulbuddin Hekmatyar's history, aren't you?

Are you familiar with American propaganda? Against one of its enemies?

Try again...

reply to post by oozyism


You want to know about propaganda? How about you look at some of the muslim extremist propaganda? How bout you ask the UK how they feel now that so many of their OWN rights and privileges are being infringed upon because they took a casual less than firm hand with the muslim religion?
Im not saying that the muslim religion is bad, but when you dont remain aware of what is going on the extremist creep right in.

If you think for one second that the extremists and jihadist a like couldnt possibly have pulled this off then you are absolutely ignorant to the facts behind these organizations. THey are EXTREMELY well funded, do you have any idea how many private banks and charities have been busted funneling MILLIONS of dollars in funds to these terrorist organizations to fund their operations?

How bout a history lesson or two, or at least a google search on the facts before you start spouting all this inaccurate information.

reply to post by oozyism

Maybe because every speech he made he never was short in criticizing America for their idiotic policies in Muslims nations. So ofcurs it is not a good thing, and every speech he used to make he used to say death to America.

Hang on.. Was that in response to me suggesting you look at who you're quoting next time? It has all become clear to me now. I have seen the light. It doesn't matter what someone actually does, so long as they are anti-American you'll believe every word that comes out of their mouth. He could come out tomorrow saying that Santa Clause is in fact real but that he's been in hiding because Americans want to put him in jail for breaking and entering and you'd believe it just because this nutcase says so.

On the bright side, the more you post the more your agenda is made clear and the more people will realize what exactly it is you're here for.

Western propaganda, demonize your enemies so everyone hates them then it makes the job easier. I would do the same to you if I was your enemy.

Didn't actually check my source did you. You should. Follow the source's links to see where their information came from. It's not propoganda, it's truth. I'm sorry if it contradicts your apparent belief that this man is incapable of lying and is a saint. Reality tends to do that when it comes face to face with blind hatred.

He attacked civilians to prove the government couldn't protect them. Not the type of person I would think is worthy of being idolized. If it makes you feel better though, by all means go ahead. Just don't expect not to be called out on it.

Originally posted by Jenna
reply to post by oozyism

 

Hang on.. Was that in response to me suggesting you look at who you're quoting next time? It has all become clear to me now. I have seen the light. It doesn't matter what someone actually does, so long as they are anti-American you'll believe every word that comes out of their mouth. He could come out tomorrow saying that Santa Clause is in fact real but that he's been in hiding because Americans want to put him in jail for breaking and entering and you'd believe it just because this nutcase says so.

On the bright side, the more you post the more your agenda is made clear and the more people will realize what exactly it is you're here for.

LOL if had the ability to look through propaganda you would know that the truth can come from any side, even if that side is weak and doesn't have enough propagation ability to spread its own views on what happened. america in the other hand spends millions of dollars just to propagate its propaganda, so have a think, why do they need millions of dollars if it was the truth? Ofcurse if you say something over and over again people will eventually believe it, and that turned out to be true.

Just because Hekmatiyar is the enemy of the occupation/occupiers doesn't mean he is lying.

Didn't actually check my source did you. You should. Follow the source's links to see where their information came from. It's not propoganda, it's truth. I'm sorry if it contradicts your apparent belief that this man is incapable of lying and is a saint. Reality tends to do that when it comes face to face with blind hatred.

Who is your source, please enlighten me since I'm so ignorant then we will see where it goes.

He attacked civilians to prove the government couldn't protect them. Not the type of person I would think is worthy of being idolized. If it makes you feel better though, by all means go ahead. Just don't expect not to be called out on it.

Who told you that? Please enlighten me...

And the discussion was not about propaganda. If America can make its own citizens believe that a passport survived an explosion, survived many fires, and still in perfect condition with no scratches or anything (and happened to fall from within the plane which attacked the towers(after the explosion)), then you know what kind of power they have...

You are naive, you believe what you are told, you believe the world is jolly, I don't believe that, so I guess that makes you right and makes me wrong, since you believe liars who lied about the Iraq war which in consequence more than a million people died.

Originally posted by CuteAngel
A group of people living in caves and ghettos with little to no water supply and electricity could never have carried out such a coordinated and skillful operation against the world's greatest defense system, especially with the pentagon and NASA monitoring the skies and space.

Let me ask you a question..
How could a group of people living in caves and ghettos with little to no water nor electricity manage 2/3 of the worlds Heron supply? ho do they manage to bring in 70 to 100 million dollars per opium harvest? how can they syphon off millions more from the rich oil companies? just who is supplying their weapons and ammo????

they seem pretty well organized for for some back woods cavemen don't you think?


[edit on 7-10-2009 by DaddyBare]

Originally posted by oozyism
LOL if had the ability to look through propaganda you would know that the truth can come from any side, even if that side is weak and doesn't have enough propagation ability to spread its own views on what happened. america in the other hand spends millions of dollars just to propagate its propaganda, so have a think, why do they need millions of dollars if it was the truth? Ofcurse if you say something over and over again people will eventually believe it, and that turned out to be true.

So where is all this propaganda about Hekmatyar? I haven't seen any. I posted facts backed up by sources, no propaganda there. Facts are pesky little things. Wishing they weren't true and denying their truth doesn't make them anything other than the facts they are.

Would you like to know how much I've spent putting forth those facts? In the five minutes it took me to type that last post I spent roughly $0.005 for my internet usage. (That's half of a cent, not a typo.) So total for my last two posts I spent about a penny to bring the truth to the masses. Truth is cheaper than propaganda.

Just because Hekmatiyar is the enemy of the occupation/occupiers doesn't mean he is lying.

Nope, sure doesn't. Doesn't make his word truth either.

Who is your source, please enlighten me since I'm so ignorant then we will see where it goes.

I already linked them for you. Not posting them again 2 posts later.

Who told you that? Please enlighten me...

See the aforementioned sources and their sources.

And the discussion was not about propaganda.

Really? Sure fooled me. Especially since your very first response to me was about propaganda and your feeble attempts to paint reality as such in order to further your anti-American agenda.

You are naive, you believe what you are told, you believe the world is jolly, I don't believe that, so I guess that makes you right and makes me wrong, since you believe liars who lied about the Iraq war which in consequence more than a million people died.

Obviously not or I would have automatically believed every word of your OP was truth and wouldn't have bothered looking into the guy's history. I like how you try to pretend you know what I believe about Iraq. That's really cute. It's almost as cute as you claiming I'm naive and believe what I'm told while trying to defend your position that this guy isn't a lying nutcase by pointing to his words and ignoring his actions.

Originally posted by oozyism

OK read what OSAMA said:

"I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie.

"I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act.

"Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle."

Oh, believe me, I hang on that nutjob's every word!
I've got copies of all of his propaganda releases. I look through them for hidden messages (like the satanic messages when you play "Stairway to Heaven" backwards, eh?). You might do well to review them yourself, if you REALLY care to arrive at the "truth", which I must say is in doubt at this point.

Yeah, he made the "Who? Little old ME?" comment. Happens a lot when cowards find their backs against the wall, and their heads in danger of exploding. It was in the same vein as John Kerry's "I was for it before I was against it" discourse.

How disingenuous.

I wish I knew what that meant..

You should probably leave the discussions of important issues to the adults, with their adult vocabularies, then.

No they asked for evidence which links Al-Qaeda with 9/11.. then they said they would hand him over..

Yeah, we Americans are a gullible bunch We can't EVER figure out when someone is snowing us, trying to buy time. Gets us every time... well, except that ONE....

When you eat at the same table, don't complain about the fare. In allying themselves with the enemies of America, they made themselves enemies too.

When you eat the same war propaganda for the last 8 years... ahh not worth it.

You're right. It WOULDN'T be worth it, to you. Had you finished that thought, rather than sidestepping and trying to mislead, then leaveing it in the air, it's YOUR lunch that would have been eaten. Just so you'll know for future reference, I've had a passing familiarity with the Afghanistan situation for a wee bit MORE than your pesky 8 years.

8 years... 8 years... sounds suspiciously partisan to me. Isn't that 2 American presidential terms? Has anything CHANGED for ya lately? Does the change reach all the way to NZ?

Yeah then the US could have continued with its own terror by sending couple of more million of its citizens to dungeons, locked away from the society... Yeah they are afraid of the police, talk about terrorism..

What part of the US have you been to where the police are feared? To be honest, THEY are sort of scared of US around here... and I haven't seen a dungeon since I left Samusi and Sikandara. Oops, I mean "Cleveland". Yeah, "Cleveland".

You ARE familiar with the warlord Gulbuddin Hekmatyar's history, aren't you?

Are you familiar with American propaganda? Against one of its enemies?

Try again...

Nice sidestep. Neatly avoided the question... yet again. Do I need to fill you in on some MORE of Hekmatyar's side-switching history, or are you able to research and form your own opinions, then articulate them, rather than sidestepping questions?

As you say... "try again". Another fail, of Biblical proportions.



[edit on 2009/10/7 by nenothtu]

Originally posted by oozyism

...

Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, who leads a faction of the Hizb-e Islami group, said that the war launched against the Taliban and al-Qaeda by the US in 2001 was not justified as the September 11 attacks had not been carried out by Afghans.

"No Afghan has taken any military action against you in Europe and the US. The September 11 attacks were planned in Europe and the US and not in Afghanistan or Iraq," he said in a video released on Tuesday....

"Those who carried it out were people born in the US and Europe and they were trained there. They were not Afghans and they never got training in Afghanistan," he said.

"Everyone knows the pilot training was done in the US and the plan of the operation was hatched there."

You can dismiss it as enemy propaganda but seriously, they can dismiss your propaganda in the same manner... who is right, who is right? How can we find out?

Help me out someone...

[edit on 7-10-2009 by oozyism]

Do you even bother to read the crap that you're quoting?? He says that the attackers were "born in the US and Europe." That is completely, 100% FALSE. 15 of the hijackers were born in Saudi Arabia. The remaining four were born in Egypt. Not a single one of them was born in Europe or the U.S.

Furthermore, the attacks were the brainchild of Khalid Sheik Mohammed. He lived in Pakistan, which means that the plot was either born in Pakistan or was hatched in Afghanistan at one of the al Qaida training camps. But the location of the planning of the attack is a moot point. It doesn't matter if it was hatched in Afghanistan or even in your living room. The bottom line is that the group responsible for the 9/11 attacks (if you support the official story) is/was headquartered in Afghanistan. That is where the majority of their bases were located. And they were there under the consent and protection of the Taliban. This alone makes Afghanistan, and the Taliban in particular, legitimate military targets. We had every right to invade and I am glad we did. I just hope people like yourself who will believe the word of a murderous thug like Hekmatyar do not get in the way of us finishing the job.

Furthermore, he is lying when he says that none of the 9/11 hijackers were trained in Afghanistan. All, or most of them, went through basic training at al Qaida camps in Afghanistan before they were chosen for the mission. He is also lying when he says the plan was hatched in America. There is ZERO evidence of that. The plot was established overseas and instructions were sent to Mohammad Atta and other ringleaders in the U.S. and Europe. The hijackers themselves had no involvement in the actual planning of the plot. They merely followed instructions and sought flight training and even some self defense classes in the US.

I am begging you to get a clue and actually do a little research before you pass on the word of a murderous thug as gospel. Anyone who knows even the slightest bit about the events of 9/11 could immediately tell that Hekmatyar was telling outright lies. But I suppose your hatred for America and the military blinded any common sense you may possess.

Suicide bomb rocks Indian Embassy in Kabul 17 dead, 76 hurt in second major attack in the city in less than a month

KABUL, Afghanistan - A suicide car bomber detonated his vehicle outside the Indian Embassy in the busy center of Afghanistan's capital on Thursday, killing 17 people and wounding nearly 80 in the second major attack in the city in less than a month.

The Taliban claimed responsibility for the 8:30 a.m. assault and said the embassy was the target.

The blast occurred a day after the Afghanistan war reached its eighth anniversary and as President Barack Obama considered a request for between 10,000 and 40,000 additional troops prepared by the top U.S. commander in Afghanistan, Gen. Stanley A. McChrystal.

Ok, I guess my previous post was a bit too hasty after the video I saw in youtube of Bigard. But reading all the posts about 911 only tells me that there is a lot of confusion regarding it and INVESTIGATION is required. The governments must think of us as complete dumb a$$e$ if they think that we are to believe whatever they spoon feed us...So who could be the real culprit Iran/Pakistan/Afghanistan/Saudi Arabia/ FED....makes one wonder

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by oozyism

 

You want to know about propaganda? How about you look at some of the muslim extremist propaganda?

Or how about oozyism just looking in the mirror to find propaganda?

How bout you ask the UK how they feel now that so many of their OWN rights and privileges are being infringed upon because they took a casual less than firm hand with the muslim religion?

That one's easy. There must be hundreds of posts here by people from the UK complaining about muslim encroachment into their lives.

reply to post by Rasputin13


"Do you even bother to read the crap that you're quoting?? He says that the attackers were "born in the US and Europe." That is completely, 100% FALSE. 15 of the hijackers were born in Saudi Arabia. The remaining four were born in Egypt. Not a single one of them was born in Europe or the U.S."
Which one was from Afghanistan? Why didn't they invade Saudi Arabia? Why did they pack the Osama family and send them back to Saudi Arabia instead of questioning them. Don't act like you know everything, when you have no clue what modern war fare is about.

The bottom line is that the group responsible for the 9/11 attacks (if you support the official story) is/was headquartered in Afghanistan.

No I don't, just like I don't support the Iraq war story.

Originally posted by oozyism

"Do you even bother to read the crap that you're quoting?? He says that the attackers were "born in the US and Europe." That is completely, 100% FALSE. 15 of the hijackers were born in Saudi Arabia. The remaining four were born in Egypt. Not a single one of them was born in Europe or the U.S."

Which one was from Afghanistan?

I reckon it's about time to put this thread to bed, folks, as Oozy evidently isn't up to following the discussion. He doesn't seem to be able to keep his justifications straight, and hence doesn't know what it is he's arguing against. Instead he keeps falling back to the same position, that has no bearing on anything.

Why didn't they invade Saudi Arabia? Why did they pack the Osama family and send them back to Saudi Arabia instead of questioning them. Don't act like you know everything, when you have no clue what modern war fare is about.

Good one, Oozy! If you can put the first thought here, together with the last thought here, in the same paragraph, and maintain a straight face, my hat's off to ya.

Or you're incredibly naive.

Can you clue us in as to what modern warfare is all about, or will we have to wait on the book?

Additionally, the thought strikes me that you can't seem to comprehend why we wouldn't attack a country (Saudi Arabia) that hadn't tried to fight us. I'm lost there. Al-Qaeda declared war on us, then attacked us. When we rose to that challenge, the Taliban allied with Al-Qaeda and tried to stop us.

And you get from that somehow that we should have attacked the Saudis?

Is that the usual Taliban mode of thought?

I dunno if anyone has told ya this, but crack kills, son. Better put that pipe down and dry out.



[edit on 2009/10/8 by nenothtu]

reply to post by nenothtu


Destabilization of Afghanistan and Pakistan

Everything is there just for you..