Rewriting the Bible

I am always amazed at how the teachings of Jesus, as we find them in the Bible, have been so thoroughly perverted by people who claim to be "Christians".

Whenever I read the New Testament, I find that Jesus was basically a kind, gentle, loving and forgiving man. He went around and healed the sick - not the good, not the church-goers, but the *sick*. He didn't heal people because they deserved healing. He healed them because they needed healing. He fed people because they were hungry, not because they deserved their food. He didn't check their credentials to see whether they were worthy. It didn't matter. They were sick, they were hungry, they were bereaved.

Someone recently quoted a supposedly "Christian" diatribe against Democracy, and one of the complaints was:

There we find textbooks that brainwash children into believing that laws which permit the less favored, the careless and the idle to rob the property of the more favored (via government transfers) are `just,' because every human being has the right, so they say, to be protected from error and to be shielded from the refiners fire.

This isn't based on the Bible. It is based on greed and hypocrisy.

The following are some quotes, taken directly from the Bible. Many are from the *OLD* Testament, which is what these Christians like to use to justify their hard-heartedness. Even in the Old Testament, God's mercy was abundant, though these Christians like to quote the bits about God stomping on sinners. Their quotations are unbalanced, as are their claims.

And thou shalt not glean thy vineyard, neither shalt thou gather every grape of thy vineyard; thou shalt leave them for the poor and stranger: I am the LORD your God.
(Leviticus 19:10)

And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not make clean riddance of the corners of thy field when thou reapest, neither shalt thou gather any gleaning of thy harvest: thou shalt leave them unto the poor, and to the stranger: I am the LORD your God.
(Leviticus 23:22)

And if thy brother be waxen poor, and fallen in decay with thee; then thou shalt relieve him: yea, though he be a stranger, or a sojourner; that he may live with thee.
(Leviticus 25:35)

If there be among you a poor man of one of thy brethren within any of thy gates in thy land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not harden thine heart, nor shut thine hand from thy poor brother: But thou shalt open thine hand wide unto him, and shalt surely lend him sufficient for his need, in that which he wanteth.
(Deuteronomy 15:7-8)

For the poor shall never cease out of the land: therefore I command thee, saying, Thou shalt open thine hand wide unto thy brother, to thy poor, and to thy needy, in thy land.
(Deuteronomy 15:11)

For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy, now will I arise, saith the LORD; I will set him in safety from him that puffeth at him.
(Psalms 12:5)

A father of the fatherless, and a judge of the widows, is God in his holy habitation. God setteth the solitary in families: he bringeth out those which are bound with chains: but the rebellious dwell in a dry land.
(Psalms 68:5-6)

The poor is hated even of his own neighbour: but the rich hath many friends.
(Proverbs 14:20)

He that despiseth his neighbour sinneth: but he that hath mercy on the poor, happy is he.
(Proverbs 14:21)

He that oppresseth the poor reproacheth his Maker: but he that honoureth him hath mercy on the poor.
(Proverbs 14:31)

He that hath pity upon the poor lendeth unto the LORD; and that which he hath given will he pay him again.
(Proverbs 19:17)

Whoso stoppeth his ears at the cry of the poor, he also shall cry himself, but shall not be heard.
(Proverbs 21:13)

He that giveth unto the poor shall not lack: but he that hideth his eyes shall have many a curse.
(Proverbs 28:27)

Open thy mouth, judge righteously, and plead the cause of the poor and needy.
(Proverbs 31:9)

Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt. Ye shall not afflict any widow, or fatherless child. If thou afflict them in any wise, and they cry at all unto me, I will surely hear their cry; And my wrath shall wax hot, and I will kill you with the sword; and your wives shall be widows, and your children fatherless.
(Exodus 22:21-24)

Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy.
(Psalms 82:3)

Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
(Isaiah 1:17)

And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers, and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not me, saith the LORD of hosts.
(Malachi 3:5)

And Jesus sat over against the treasury, and beheld how the people cast money into the treasury: and many that were rich cast in much. And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing. And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury: For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.
(Mark 12:41-44)

[Here, "charity" is not referring to mere almsgiving; it refers to "agape", unconditional love. This quality is missing from many Christians.]

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
(1 Corinthians 13:1-13)

If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain. Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
(James 1:26-27)

If you believe the Bible, then I guess God is a liberal.

reply to post by chiron613



WTF are you talking about..?





Back on topic:


WTF are you talking about..?

reply to post by happygolucky


He posted in this thread about some loons saying the bible is to liberal and are attempting to rewrite it.

Apparently he felt the need to do a spin off thread.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

That thread also had me scratching my head.

It is the job of the individual to give abundantly and offer hospitality to the poor, and it is the responsibility of the ecclesiastical authority to oversee the distribution of alms received to the needy.

It is not the place of the state to receive alms for charitable redistribution. Especially not a secular, anti-religious state.

reply to post by happygolucky


I have cleverly hidden my meaning in the text of the post, so that in order to find that meaning, you have to read the post. Unfortunately, if you don't read the post, you are unlikely to understand it. If you did read it and still don't understand, then perhaps you could go on to another post that is more to your liking.

I must say, however, that your comment is not particularly illuminating or informative. You might consider the possibility that, if you have nothing in particular to say, it would be OK not to say anything. Just a thought...

[edit on 10/7/2009 by chiron613]

reply to post by OuttaHere


Perhaps. OTOH, if the individuals and ecclesiastic authorities were doing their parts, there would be no need for the state to do anything for the poor. Unfortunately, this is not the case.

Also, I seem to remember some Jew in the Bible say, "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's".

reply to post by chiron613


Well I read most of the post, sounds like you are saying that Jesus was the original communist. Capitalism is all about greed and corruption which is not exactly a Christian way of governing over it's people. At least that's what I think you're trying to say, I don't know, I'm not a mind reader and neither are most of the people who visit this site. You could always just tell us what your point is instead of making us play 20 questions, just a thought.

reply to post by chiron613


i agree but only to a point and that point is, if you give to your brother who is already destitute, till you have nothing left to give, you both become destitute without a way to help the other.

so the idea there is, you keep your field, you care for your field, you take the best 10 percent and give it to God, you take the harvest and sell it, and you leave a portion of your field for the poor. So there you have tithing, income and charity. But if you are asked to give more to charity, and more to charity and yet more to charity by the King, soon you won't have a field, and you will be with the rest of the poor looking for a charitable field.

I do believe the premise behind capitalism works, provided it's allowed to work. But if it's fighting a tug of war with socialism, it's bound to fail, simply because the two things are incompatible.

[edit on 7-10-2009 by undo]

reply to post by chiron613


erm, if you look around, there are very few fields to share. they are owned by the only groups that could afford all the social programs. that was deliberate i do believe. it's like, let's say they decided to tax churches. the only churches that would hurt, would be the little ones. the big ones, the ones that own most of the world already, would not miss a beat.

same same

reply to post by chiron613


WOW! S & F to you.

I felt as if I was a voice in the wilderness, sticking up for Jesus and saying that a lot of so-called Christians were definitely not following His teachings and in fact were damaging His name - then I read your thread.

You are so right.

reply to post by spellbound


how do you figure that one? there are thousands of christian charitable programs. and as a group, the christians of the usa, pay more out to charities and social programs than anywhere else in the world. heck, i was living in an one bedroom basement apartment with five other people and supporting a girl in south america via a charitable program.

sometimes i think it's become a pass time to just make crap up to complain about

[edit on 7-10-2009 by undo]

reply to post by spellbound


Thank you for your kind words, Spellbound. I appreciate them. Lots of people don't much care for it when someone points out what the Bible *really* says.

Thanks again.

reply to post by chiron613


but i just showed you where your interpretation of it is missing the part where the guy has to own the field in the first place, or he doesn't have anything to share with the poor guy. you don't want an answer, you just want to sit here and complain about christians. i mean, here i'm telling you that i was dirt poor myself and trying to help someone in another country and instead of responding to any of my posts, you only respond to a post who doesn't address the topic and just agrees with you that christians suck.

i call foul!

well hey, where ever good resides corruption and evil lurks also.

reply to post by undo


Many Christians do great things - all I am saying is that a lot of so-called Christians are actually NOT Christians, and give Christ a bad name.

Yes, I acknowledge that many true Christians help others, as all true Christians should.

What I cannot stand is the hating people, the fire and brimstone people - that is not Jesus.

reply to post by spellbound


well i don't go for the fire and brimstone thing either, but even THEY give to charitable programs.

charity is not the problem. what the op is saying is, jesus and the OT god were socialists, which of course, is definitely not the truth for the OT god.

jesus is a bit more socialist but as a matter of personal choice to give out of the love and kindness of your heart, not out of fear of your government.

remember what he did to the tax collectors in the temple? it weren't a pretty sight.

[edit on 7-10-2009 by undo]

reply to post by undo


The tax collectors were preying on the people, much like our governments.

Jesus could get angry, occasionally, when it mattered.

The thing about Jesus that a lot of people do not get is that He loves all people, regardless of their sins, and He forgives - we all need that.

reply to post by undo


Cry foul all you want. You're incorrect that I only replied to a favorable comment. Have another look.

Every quotation I used is directly from the King James Version of the Bible. I didn't make them up. I didn't twist their meaning. One of the messages in the Bible is to help the poor.

I am not knocking those who follow the teachings of Jesus. I am knocking those who claim to be Christians, yet ignore the message that Jesus - and the whole Bible - teaches. Jesus didn't have much of a problem with so-called "evildoers". He hung around with prostitutes, thieves, and even tax collectors (in those days, tax collectors were thugs who extorted money from people).

Jesus had problems with only one group of people - self-righteous, arrogant, and hypocritical religious leaders. These leaders preyed on the people, took their offerings and give little back in return. They were corrupt and greedy, and Jesus had a big problem with that.

If Jesus were walking among us today, who do you think he'd hang out with? Do you think he'd be with the "Christian Right"? Do you think he'd be condemning people? I don't think so. I think he'd be right there with the whores, thieves, gays, and the poor, just like always.

As for your "fields", yes, you are right. No one owns fields any more. I had hoped that perhaps you could consider applying the language more broadly, that by "field" the Bible could mean any endeavor intended for profit. Maybe not. Maybe you take the Bible absolutely literally. In that case, I can't help you.

I'm glad that you helped out when you were poor. That's probably why you're not so poor now. There is that bit about sowing and reaping; giving alms tends to enrich a person somehow.

But for every person like you who reads and follows the Bible as best they can, there are dozens who simply use it to justify their comfortable prejudices and beliefs, who do not tithe or give alms, who do little or nothing to help the poor and the others.

I can't believe I overlooked one of the most beautiful examples of what I'm talking about:

Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Matthew 25:34-40

That's what it's supposed to be about.

reply to post by undo


I don't want to sound all pedantic, but those weren't tax collectors in the Temple, they were money-changers. The difference may sound trivial, but it is significant.

Jesus hung out with tax collectors and liked them. Understand that tax collectors in those days were somewhat like "enforcers" are now. Pay up or we break your kneecaps. They were basically thugs who went around to extort money from people for the government. Kind of like the IRS, but with baseball bats to underscore their point.

The money-changers were businessmen who would convert peoples' currency into that of the region (since many came from distant locations). They were conducting a business, and taking advantage of pious people, in the Temple itself. They had no business being there and the leaders of the time should not have permitted it. However, the whole system was corrupt.

So yeah, Jesus went in there with a whip, and basically kicked some serious butt.