Reid, Pelosi fight against posting health care bills online, page 1

Reps. Brian Baird, D-Wash., and Greg Walden, R-Ore., are circulating a petition among House lawmakers to get Congress to post bills online, for all to see, 72 hours before lawmakers vote on them.
Nearly every Republican has signed on for the “72 hour rule,” but the Democratic leadership is unwilling to cede control over when bills are brought to the floor for votes and are discouraging their rank and file from signing the petition. Senate Democrats voted down a similar measure last week for the health care bill.

www.washingtonexaminer.com...

Hey, I don't make this stuff up! Here's the url:
www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/Congressional-leaders-fight-against-posting-bills-online-8340658-63557217.html

They did this with the Stimulus, Cap and Trade, and Energy and bailout bills, too! Even Obama ignores his Executive Order to post all legislation for 5 days before he signs it.

As Congress lurches closer to a decision on an enormous overhaul of the American health care system, pressure is mounting on legislative leaders to make the final bill available online for citizens to read before a vote.
Lawmakers were given just hours to examine the $789 billion stimulus plan, sweeping climate-change legislation and a $700 billion bailout package before final votes.
While most Americans normally ignore parliamentary detail, with health care looming, voters are suddenly paying attention. The Senate is expected to vote on a health bill in the weeks to come, representing months of work and stretching to hundreds of pages. And as of now, there is no assurance that members of the public, or even the senators themselves, will be given the chance to read the legislation before a vote.

www.washingtonexaminer.com...
www.drudgereport.com...

What EVER happened to transparency? Hope? Change?

If all this stuff is so good for us, why don't they want us to see it?

Very simple question.

Very serious answer: Deny ignorance!

jw

[edit on 6-10-2009 by jdub297]

reply to post by jdub297

---

They don't want us to see it, because they are so much smarter than us and know what is best for us, so why should we even bother to read it. I am pretty sure they think we can't read anyway. We are just a bunch of bumpkins in their eyes.

blog.sunlightfoundation.com...#

A Review of Obama’s Five Day Pledge

www.cato-at-liberty.org...

A Flagging Obama Transparency Effort

President Obama made some very firm commitments about transparency as a campaigner. Among other things, he promised to post bills online for five days before he signs them. This promise has been fulfilled just once – and in that case, only arguably.

The Obama campaign Web site promised “Sunlight Before Signing:”

That was before he got into office. SUCKERS!!!!

reply to post by StinkyFeet

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They don't want us to see it, because they are so much smarter than us and know what is best for us, so why should we even bother to read it. I am pretty sure they think we can't read anyway. We are just a bunch of bumpkins in their eyes.

[palm slaps forehead] Thanks, I forgetted.

I'll just wait for them to take care of all the rest of my needs, too.

'kay?

jw

reply to post by liveandletlive

---

Cool! I'd never seen those links before. I'm gonna stake a claim there and keep up dated, but we already know what's gonna happen, right?

We are in so much trouble, we can't even imagine yet.

Thanks.

jw

reply to post by angrymomma

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Have the people who are blocking it come out with a reason why they are doing so?

Yes. It's none of your business. Just send money.

About that "seeing through lead thing ... ."

Is Glenn Beck from Krypton?

Man, the things you learn here.

jw

When the House Bill 3200 was posted, dissected and explained in every
day terminology at www.wrongreform.com... , people went to the
town hall meetings and contacted their leaders to voice their anger at
some of the provisions. Provisions that most Congressmen/women
were not aware of, or even the President himself, for that matter.

If we don't DEMAND that the final Health Reform bill be posted on the
internet for AT LEAST 72 hours before the final vote, we'll be steamrolled
big time. We the people can't take "NO!" for an answer on this demand.
The ramifications for life/death and financial are HUGE!
-cwm

Hmmm... I wonder what our nation's founders would have said to Pelosi and Reid (after slapping them both across the face for their continuing disrespect of our country's governing principles)? History has an answer to this question!

The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them.

Patrick Henry

Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives.

A popular government, without popular information, or the means of acquiring it, is but a prologue to a farce or a tragedy; or, perhaps both.

Both courtesy of James Madison

Now... how about some irony... Nancy Pelosi, December 18, 2007...

"The Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) has a vital purpose: to inform American
citizens about the conduct of their government. However, the Bush
Administration has greatly expanded the veil of secrecy and undermined the
Freedom of Information Act. The Administration's actions run counter to the
values of our democracy, the public's right to know, and the ability of
American citizens to hold their government accountable.


"The passage of the OPEN Government Act takes a first step toward
strengthening FOIA and restoring transparency and accountability to our
government."

www.reuters.com...

Interesting! I wonder what Harry Reid said about the topic when Bush was in office? Ah! A letter from Mr. Reid himself on the topic... dated January of 2006, let's see what he said.

Today, Democrats from Howard Dean in Ohio to Nancy Pelosi and me in Washington are declaring our commitment to a government as good and honest as the people it serves. To achieve that vision, this morning we introduced the Honest Leadership and Open Government Act. Our tough, real reforms go beyond the public relations fixes Republicans suggest.

usliberals.about.com...

Wowzers! I'm just a simple country man, but it certainly seems to me that either Reid and Pelosi have done a complete hundred and eighty degree turn in their attitudes on open government, were complete and total bald faced liars when they made these statements, only taking this road because of their hatred of the president at the time, or are now controlled by some interest in power above them which is dictating what We the People will be allowed to see and what will be hidden from our simple eyes. Any way you slice it, they don't seem very trustworthy or honorable, do they?

reply to post by burdman30ott6

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Today, Democrats from Howard Dean in Ohio to Nancy Pelosi and me in Washington are declaring our commitment to a government as good and honest as the people it serves.

Actually, after a brief moment of thought, I retract my liar claim on Reid. He was actually telling the truth fully. The only people this government is serving are elitists and corporate suits who walk lock step with the administration, so, in a way he was being 100% truthfull. The original error was mine in presuming that he was refering to We the People in his letter. My bad.

I am confused.. do they mean online at the library of congress? I thought those bills went on as soon as they were introduced into congress. And then these things go through committees and hearings. I didn't think it was possible to move a bill from introduction through committee to final vote in LESS than 72 hours. (little sarcasm there).

I agree this is a dastardly act on the part of the leadership, but we *do* have some recourse in watching bills go through the process at The Library of Congress > THOMAS Home > Bills, Resolutions

reply to post by burdman30ott6

---

Reid and Pelosi's hypocrisy is sickening, but not unexpected.

Puppets on strings, no doubt.

The liberties of a people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them.
Patrick Henry

Knowledge will forever govern ignorance; and a people who mean to be their own governors must arm themselves with the power which knowledge gives.

A popular government, without popular information, or the means of acquiring it, is but a prologue to a farce or a tragedy; or, perhaps both.
Both courtesy of James Madison

The "Founding Fathers" would be run out of today's Washington as if they were idiots.

Look what they've done to our Country.

jw

reply to post by rogerstigers

---

I am confused.. do they mean online at the library of congress? I thought those bills went on as soon as they were introduced into congress.

Some people believe that. Sen. Reid must file and the Senate must act upon his "reconciliation bill" to even out the differences between the two senate bills. This has to be completed by October 15, due to legislative rules.

Thus far, nothing is public.

He has to date refused to let ANYONE outside of his control see it or know its contents.

jw

reply to post by stevegmu

---

J. Kerry said something like Americans aren't smart enough to read and understand legislative language. That's why he doesn't read bills.

It also qualifies him perfectly to represent Massachusetts in the Senate, and his party for President.

s4u

jw

reply to post by wutone

---

You guys don't think stuff like the Internal Revenue Act and Federal Reserve Act were passed with full public disclosure?

Did you study American history or government in school? The Federal Reserve Act was debated for YEARS before it was enacted. People threatened revolution over it!

As for Internal Revenue Act, which one? There've been more than one. It took a constitutional amendment and Supreme Court decisions to get the IRS going strong. Think that happened behind closed doors?

Methinks that the government has been doing so[me] history reading to pass drastic laws to forever shape our country as the government has done back in 1913.

Methinks that people who do not know history are doomed to repeat it.

You went to a government-funded, federally controlled public scholl, didn't you?

Deny ignorance!

jw

reply to post by jdub297

---

*nod* I agree, there are some broken parts to our system. I particularly dislike the reconciliation process that happens between house and senate. House passes one bill, Senate passes a slightly differant bill. They reconcile behind closed doors with NO public vote and only reconciliation committee members available. They can change the law anyway they see fit there, from what I understand. It's a terrible loophole and only leaves the president as the check. Generally he doesn't actually read the bill, but is advised on what it says.

reply to post by rogerstigers

---

And, to compound the confusion, there will be 2, reconciliations! At least.

Reid has to first reconcile the two Senate bills, one of which has yet to be scored by the CBO (due out yesterday, delayed until maybe today). Then, the "reconciled" bill (or bills, they could divide the 2 competitors into several to meet budget and "Byrd" rules) must be re-scored by the CBO.

Then voted out of the Senate. Then the process goes on in the House under Pelosi's "leadership.

Then the House and Senate bills must be reconciled AGAIN!.

We will never see what hit us. Excellent strategy if your goal is to ambush the Nation. Bad practice if you profess "transparency," "hope," and "change" to be your objectives.

It is what it is. I couldn't make this stuff up; no one would believe it.

jw

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