My Idea for a Utopia

My Utopia is a world where everything is completely free.

People always say that this idea of a free world would never work, a world where you walk into a grocery store load up and walk out, or walk into car dealership pick that new jag and go, or go to a real estate agent and say that one please, or walk into a best buy and load up all for free...

The reason they say this would never work is "Well who would make the cars? who would work the shops? who would harvest the materials to do all this? if everything is free people wont work horrible jobs (like mining) and society will quickly crumble" a very valid point, but that's where robot workers come in.

When we get to the point in our technology where robots can do any job a person can do just as well (if not better) then a person, there will no longer be need for some poor smuck to work at McDonald's (i would prefer a robot making my food in the fast food case anyway) or mine coal, or do any other horrible job, only the great jobs would be reserved for humans, and only humans who truly desired those positions would try to acquire them, since there's no big pay check inspiring them to become a doctor or musician.

Couldn't it then work? if no one had to work, if your desires were the only motivation and not the need for survival, or keeping up with the Johnson's

Why wouldn't it work? what would the draw backs be? once robots get to the point where they can replace manual labor only architects, artist, care providers, and other rewarding jobs would remain for humans, you could say there may be a lack of positions available then, but i say how could you possible have to many doctors or architects in a world without concern for money or providing?

And yes there definitely are some people that don't want to stop doing what they do (like construction) even if they don't get paid (out of the joy of building) simply because a robot can do it, those people wont be forced out of the occupation they love, they can work hand and hand with the robots.


Since i was a child, a world of technology has always been the most freeing thought to me, if it wasn't for all the military only technology (technology being suppressed from the rest of the world) we may be closer to this state then we are now (free technology advances much faster) but we may only be 50 - 75 years from this utopia, if only greed and corruption weren't currently guiding the world maybe we would have something closer to this now instead of software that identifies faces threw CCT cameras to track everyone

Unfortunately with the have and have not's attitude the wealthiest subscribe to, this Utopia will probably never come to be in my lifetime, even with robots, to many people will be worried about having more then others


[edit on 10/6/2009 by Alaskan Man]

Making things with my own hands gives me a feeling like no other. I feel worthwhile. It would take away from the sense of Utopia to never have to or even be able to make things with my own hands. Where is the sense of accomplishment and purpose if everything is done for us by technology?

Originally posted by Hazelnut
Making things with my own hands gives me a feeling like no other. I feel worthwhile. It would take away from the sense of Utopia to never have to or even be able to make things with my own hands. Where is the sense of accomplishment and purpose if everything is done for us by technology?

wow you didn't even read the entire thing....

i cover that.

you could still make everything you want and even work as you do now, just re-read it



[edit on 10/6/2009 by Alaskan Man]

reply to post by Alaskan Man


Sorry!

I thought I had read it all the first time.

"And yes there definitely are some people that don't want to stop doing what they do (like construction) even if they don't get paid (out of the joy of building) simply because a robot can do it, those people wont be forced out of the occupation they love, they can work hand and hand with the robots."

reply to post by Hazelnut


its all good, its very easy to skip a paragraph by mistake i do it all the time, sorry for accusing you of not reading the entire thing, it was just sorta frustrating to have the very first response kinda negative.

i know my idea is some what simplistic, but really i could see it working quite well.

[edit on 10/6/2009 by Alaskan Man]

Your not going to get any good society unless you get rid of sex, and violence which are two things that are linked.

One gender is the only way to go for me, think about it true fully and you will see that i am right.

I think one day mankind will see that we should only have one gender, and sex and violence will be a thing of the past.

google "the venus project"

technology is a component for most people's view of utopia, tho I don't feel it's entirely necessary.

Also the transition from manual to automated society would not be very smooth i think, so while the end result may be a utopia, the means to reach it could very well be a living hell.

I agree with you about the importance of robots, I've mentioned to people that I think the robot will be this centuries car, and people often look at me like I'm crazy. I think anyone who doesn't think robots will be a common part of society by the end of most of our lifetimes is just not paying attention. The USA should be at the forefront of this industry if they want to stay competitive in the manufacturing and engineering world, but we're not. Japan def has a leg up. But their low birth rates may be a driving force behind it. If humans aren't gonna make more workers, then we'll just manufacture them.

reply to post by Alaskan Man


Your Utopia is strikingly similar to the Venus Project my friend.

A great idea on paper, but unfortunetly a Utopia will never occur, regardless of how advanced our society becomes. The reason is very simple.

People will never collectively agree to do things all a certain way. You can't have one set of rules for everybody in other words. Somebody somewhere is going to think that they're ideas are better, and they will attempt to change the system.

This will lead to infighting and eventually, deregulation and corruption.

I applaud your effort, the idea is superb, just unrealistic.

~Keeper

reply to post by liquidsmoke206


The problem you have with robots things, is that alot of it is hidden. Maybe behind the scenes japan and usa have alot of advanced stuff. But we know when it comes to the public, when will we get the real deal.

may I turn your idea slightly .
with all due respect , what is wrong with people owning the robot army's of working robots .

people hireing out the labor of their armys , getting the value added of the tasks done by their work force .

shortly you will increase the worth of having people doing those tasks robots are ill suited to do .

very assume the nature of your fellow humans , each persons spirit is self directed and design'd with unique greatness that is not any others to redefine .

that said , in your perfect world , where humans are free to follow their muse , each citizen would have the choice .

today , the artist is stopped by law and physic's , where 1/2 your wealth is currently taken for a place to stand , and 1/3 of your wealth is redirected for the govermental control of your effort .... the artist or innovator is stopped from following their muse by poverty ( by design )

in a perfect world , you could still have coin of the relm ....


but " capital " is by definition : an Icon inscribed of the taxing institution ; social contract , script , or means of transfering wealth --for the means or purpose of taxation--

capital is not design'd to be used in industry or commercial systems for trade or markets .... it is designs to pay for goverment .

the removal of coin of the relm is an attack on goverment , not on trade .

reply to post by Alaskan Man


Alaskan Man I love your idea and the ideas that other people are having to change our society into one that works for everyone. Since we are individually unique, in a world where our desires are the only motivation there should also be a higher level of responsibility toward achieving our desires.

My pet idea of a Utopia is sort of like yours. Except in mine, there would be no robots. LOL Everyone would be free to discover and experiment on which activities give the most satisfaction and which serve a humanitarian purpose. If we were all able to acknowledge that each of our contributions are of equal value, there would (theoretically) be no problem keeping marketing and distribution mostly as it is now. The notion of currency would be replaced with equal value trade. Which of course, is up to the individuals involved to determine.

if your desires were the only motivation and not the need for survival,

Mistyped your name.

[edit on 6-10-2009 by Hazelnut]

reply to post by andy1033


then you consider grey aliens to be a utopian society...
eliminating gender and violence has contributed to the elimination of individuality, emotion, and all social skill from greys. I know you may not believe in grey aliens, but if you look at the reports out there, then what I'm talking about is consistent with what people have experienced while interacting with them. Even if you don't believe in them however, I think it's not hard to see how eliminating certain aspects of humanity could have adverse effects on us as a whole. For example, if we had only one gender(reportedly like greys) then we'd have to reproduce in test tubes. I can't see this as being good for genetic diversity.....see where I'm goin with this?

Their type of society, while safe, is not ideal in my opinion. I think for something to be called "utopian" we could do a lot better.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


I respectfully just disagree with you.
I actually believe you can get everyone on the same page.

Originally posted by liquidsmoke206
Also the transition from manual to automated society would not be very smooth i think, so while the end result may be a utopia, the means to reach it could very well be a living hell.

whys that? i see it happening like this. (say if i were in charge lol)

its the year 2060, robots have reached a point where there capable of doing everything a human can do.

(now i didn't think of this tell now, but in order for this to work i have to be president of the world, so i guess a one world government would sorta be needed to make sure everyone got treated fairly, darn it)

I make an announcement that no one has to quit there jobs, but no one has to work there jobs any longer as well, i also state that the reason for this is society is going threw a drastic change for the better, everything, your house, car, food, entertainment, everything is now free. we currently have enough robots to replace every laborer and intellect on the planet in the professional field.

Everyone's aloud to keep there job, or pursue any job of there liking keeping in mind they will be working with robots, college and training for everything is now free, so pursue your dreams.

the only problem i see is people becoming lazy like the folks of Wall-E, but really only a small majority of society consist of lazy people IMO

reply to post by andy1033


we'll get the real deal when our economy/lifestyle needs it.

and it's not all behind closed doors, you just think it is because in the USA you never get news about robotics. I'm pretty sure thats why people always look at me funny when I talk about how we need to start focusing on this soon to be booming industry.

Do some searches for robots, you'll see some pretty amazing publicized technology already available, and they've made huge strides in just the past 10 years.

We already are all forced to do one thing, use money.

Funny how we both post two different topics but based around the same premise. Mine was

" What if Currency was never invented "

I believe we are heading to this time in human evolution where we will become more understanding of our connections and common goal, to advance our ways of life to best suite our current needs with the most efficient method.

It will take time, but I know we will do it. Otherwise Humans will only be heard of in some Interstellar Museum, " And here we have the human Species, with they're bountiful resources, and unlimited amount of thought power, they still insisted on making everyone work service jobs to support the economic elite, and in the war of 2043 the human race was extinct. But Not before they were able to Cure Baldness and erectile dysfunction.





[edit on 6-10-2009 by 10001011]

I agree with the OP

it can be done, the only problem is TPTB would never allow this unless we take away their power which we gave em

reply to post by liquidsmoke206


How so?

How do you get if you use current population standards, 6.9 Billion people of differring race, religion, locations, histories and a plethora of over variables to all agree to one mode of living?

Does that not remove individuality and free will from the equation? One rule for all will never work.

Rather, we should encourage individual communities of like minded people. There's enough room for that on the planet. We all know that big federal government doesn't work, therefore we must rely on large community government.

Decisions only affecting those of one certain region should only be the business of those people. They should set their own rules. If you don't like it, then move to a place where like minded people such as yourself want to live.

Obviously that system is flawed as well, since nothing is perfect and I am just giving a very vague example.

You put 1000 people in one room and tell them they have a choice. They can live in complete Utopia and never have to work a day in their lives, or they can continue doing what they are doing today.

I can guarantee you at least one person will want to continue doing what they are doing.

That 1 person has the potential to ruin it for everybody else. There are too many variables to consider, too much planning and in our current society and those of the future (1000+ years) we are and will be creatures of instinct. Animals. We've simply fooled ourselves into thinking we are special.

Edit to add: Also, ask anybody who has substantial power in this world if they would give it up to be "just like everybody else". What would the most common answer be?

~Keeper

[edit on 10/6/2009 by tothetenthpower]

reply to post by Alaskan Man

whys that? i see it happening like this. (say if i were in charge lol)

example: Bank of America, at least in seattle, has put new machines in all of it's branches that can take any kind of deposit, do all the basic stuff you want a teller to do for you. The have sent out people to stand around and explain to everyone how these machines work, and I was even given a check for 1 dollar to use the machine and not the actual teller. I asked the guy..."so are you actually gonna have any employees left?" He just kinda smiled and said, "well, there will always be people who want to talk to an actual person so yeah we'll always have one or 2." Robots = unemployment and you cant make the transition happen without causing severe problems. I could go on, theres a lot to this, but I'll leave it alone for now to address the rest of your post.

(now i didn't think of this tell now, but in order for this to work i have to be president of the world, so i guess a one world government would sorta be needed to make sure everyone got treated fairly, darn it)

do you really think a one world government would make sure everyone is treated fairly....think about where you're gong with this....

I make an announcement that no one has to quit there jobs, but no one has to work there jobs any longer as well, i also state that the reason for this is society is going threw a drastic change for the better, everything, your house, car, food, entertainment, everything is now free.

I'm sorry but there's no way this would come along as an announcement. The transition will not happen that fast, and if you think it could, then you have a helluva lot of explaining to do.

Everyone's aloud to keep there job, or pursue any job of there liking keeping in mind they will be working with robots, college and training for everything is now free, so pursue your dreams.

Creating a utopia doesn't just mean eliminating the need for work and increasing everyone's leisure time, without incentive you have to imagine what everyone's "dreams" would consist of. You can't just kill work, people aren't ready for it. We have to become a society that thinks very differently then we do now to make that work.

the only problem i see is people becoming lazy like the folks of Wall-E, but really only a small majority of society consist of lazy people IMO

small majority? is that an oxymoron? anyways i disagree....given the chance to be lazy you'd see that small majority become quite large. Sorry to rain on yer parade, but your utopia needs a little more thought put into it.

I think we have fooled ourselves into thinking we are helpless...

When in fact the very people we think are helpless, have done all of this, without modern tech, so why cant we? Im sure other people in 3rd world countries are tired of being refered to as 3rd world. they would most likely be the 1st to jump aboard, various masses of people are not happy with their lives being ruined by money, telling your child they need to get a job because you cannot afford their new clothes to fit into a society that seems to think money grows on trees.

Lets show them, it can.