NASA To Bomb The Moon Friday

reply to post by zorgon

The water is there... we don't need to blast it into space to know...

/facepalm

Ok... do I REALLY have to explain the logistics of how finding water molecules in the lunar surface is different than finding water deposits?!? Or do you set up a drilling rig in your driveway every time your car leaks a little oil?

You say NASA stands for "Never A Straight Answer", eh? Maybe it only appears that way to you because you are unwilling or incapable of understanding what they're telling you. In your case, thus far you've shown in this thread that the disconnect you perceive as lies is probably more likely a issue of NASA = "Not A Sharp Audience".
.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
Quite simply because it's incorrect, they use the word bomb because people will read magazines with the word bomb on more than they'll read a magazine with the word impact.

And more people will read ATS threads with the words' NASA Bombs the Moon' as well

And a Kinetic Impactor is just a fancy name for a bomb with no explosives


These are Kenetic Impact weapons

Originally posted by Lasheic
reply to post by Umbra Sideralis

 

Whether your trust NASA or not shouldn't really even factor into it. We could throw the entire world's arsenal of nuclear and conventional explosives at the moon, at the velocities necessary to orbit the sun (which are far greater than the velocities necessary to orbit the Earth) in one titanic and epic explosion... and we still wouldn't even be CLOSE to the required energy needed to budge the Moon out of it's orbit and impact it's gravitational influences on Earth's bioshere/climate.

What you're suggesting is akin to claiming that throwing a tennis ball at a freight train could transfer enough kinetic energy to tip it over and derail the Engines. It's... not.... going to happen - no matter how good a throwing arm you think you have.

Every equation can have at the least one incognitae!
Do we know all and everything about the Moon?...clearly not! And that would be the Possible incognitae on the way of the test that we must worry about.

Now, just using your exemple...You can throw that ball with extreme strengh at the train...how do you have absolutly sure it will not pass over a window and hit the train driver? result... train crash because driver was uncoscious...

- Ball hit a passenger, other one dont knows what is going on, and just hit the train force stop alarm, chaos start, driver dont stop at a station with al the havoc on the train, some one is trampled on the iron line!
...and so on...
We can stay here all the night finding zillions possible scenarios for a catastrophe to be started by a simple ball ...

WE just know some possible scenarious with the Moon on this, but for sure we dont know or can predict all of them, that's the problem. Ignoring that is ignoring inteligence & prudence!

Just because this scenario includes Titans like the Moon & the Earth,we can't forget how weak and fragile a ecossystem can be some times!

And about the size....never forget that it was just need one simple Virus to possible lead you to certain death! I am sure you know how small a virus can be.

Even in Earth we can affect the Moon...it is knowed that mining extration for centurys, of some elements on Earth is messing with moon's - Earth distance! What you need more to know that we really need a more delicate aproach on this matter?!

Originally posted by zorgon
And a Kinetic Impactor is just a fancy name for a bomb with no explosives

Hmm...


en.wikipedia.org...

A bomb is any of a range of explosive devices that typically rely on the exothermic chemical reaction of an explosive material to produce an extremely sudden and violent release of energy.

[edit on 6-10-2009 by buddhasystem]

Originally posted by Umbra Sideralis
Now, just using your exemple...You can throw that ball with extreme strengh at the train...how do you have absolutly sure it will not pass over a window and hit the train driver? result... train crash because driver was uncoscious...

We know the density of the moon, therefore we can predict the effects of an impact. Larger objects have hit it and it has not been knocked out of it's orbit.

Originally posted by Umbra Sideralis
WE just know some possible scenarious with the Moon on this, but for sure we dont know or can predict all of them, that's the problem. Ignoring that is ignoring inteligence & prudence!

Prudence? They have worked out mathematically, based on the moons density and the mass and speed of the impacter just how much damage will be done.

Originally posted by Umbra Sideralis
Just because this scenario includes Titans like the Moon & the Earth,we can't forget how weak and fragile a ecossystem can be some times!

It's not an ecosystem, ecosystems require some kind of life.

Originally posted by Umbra Sideralis
And about the size....never forget that it was just need one simple Virus to possible lead you to certain death! I am sure you know how small a virus can be.

Yes but we know how viruses function and understand why they are so dangerous, just as we know the density of the moon and can therefore predict how it will react to an impact.

Originally posted by Umbra Sideralis
Even in Earth we can affect the Moon...it is knowed that mining extration for centurys, of some elements on Earth is messing with moon's - Earth distance! What you need more to know that we really need a more delicate aproach on this matter?!

Please provide peer revieed research for that claim. The moon is slowly moving out of the earths orbit according to measurments, however it has been moving away long before humans existed. The last measurment i read was i think 4cm a year.

[edit on 6-10-2009 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984 Please tell me where these nut jobs got th 5 mile wide figure from?

The term 'nut jobs' is frowned upon here... but that 5 mile hole is all over the web

NASA's plan to bomb a 5-mile wide crater in the moon Friday, Your tax dollars at work
Wall Street Examiner

Can we blow a five mile wide crater on the moon?
hypography.com...

USGS has a paper to figure it out

Impact crater size also depends on the amount of kinetic energy (KE) an impactor possesses. Kinetic energy, energy in motion, is described as:
KE ò (mv2)
Where m mass of impactor (kilograms) and v velocity of impactor (meters/second)

arizona.usgs.gov...

Maybe Phage could work out that math

Here are the figures

The lunar impacts of the 2000 kg upper stage and the 700 kg S-S/C will take place at a velocity of 2.5 km/sec and at an angle of 75°.





[edit on 6-10-2009 by zorgon]

Originally posted by ItsallCrazy

Why do they need to uncover the presence of water anyway.. I thought the Indian Chandrayaan had already accomplished that?

I was thinking the same thing. I heard they were nuking the moon. Is this true? IF they are, why the hell not use one of our giant non-nuclear bombs/missiles to disperse water vapor into the air? Why irradiate the water if you want to use it?

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by zorgon
And a Kinetic Impactor is just a fancy name for a bomb with no explosives

Hmm...


en.wikipedia.org...

A bomb is any of a range of explosive devices that typically rely on the exothermic chemical reaction of an explosive material to produce an extremely sudden and violent release of energy.

[edit on 6-10-2009 by buddhasystem]

Well chalk one up for Zorgon then because you just prooved him right

Originally posted by Umbra Sideralis
And about the size....never forget that it was just need one simple Virus to possible lead you to certain death! I am sure you know how small a virus can be.

Yes we all know that viruses are very small. What does a kinetic impact on the surface have to do with viruses?

Do you even realize that the Moon has been hit with objects far surpassing whatever man can hurl at it, and multiple times? Have you ever seen craters?

Amazing ignorance.

reply to post by zorgon


How about a simple comparison then? The first atomic bomb had roughly 80 terajoules of energy and left a crater 10 feet wide. 1 terajoule is 10 to the 12th power in joules.

The object being slammed into the moon, according to NASA's figures has the potential energy of 6 billion joules which is 0.006 terajoules.

As you can se this figure is seriously smaller than the first atomic bomb. I will concede that the energy is being applied differently and that is why the impacter will have a larger crater. However the atomic bomb is so much larger and yet barely scratched the earth you should get some idea what i mean here.

There just isn't enough energy to create a 5 mile wide crater.

Sources

hypertextbook.com...

en.wikipedia.org...

lcross.arc.nasa.gov...

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

Quite simply because it's incorrect, they use the word bomb because people will read magazines with the word bomb on more than they'll read a magazine with the word impact.

Bingo.

Scientific American, New Scientist, Popular Mechanics... these aren't Journals of Science. They're digests marketed to the public and they are supported by Advertiser Revenue. That they found a nice niche as a way to keep scientists in separate fields informed of new discoveries helps keep them more honest than say... Discovery Channel or History Channel on cable TV. However, no scientist worth their salt is going to take the word of one of these publications as fact. If they think a discovery in a different field may be relevant to their own research - they'll contact the other researchers directly, and they'll read the peer-review literature.

Peer Review journals help remove even minor advertiser bias such as you've pointed out above, but as a result of their independence from advertisers - the cost of publication and distribution is then transferred onto the consumer. That's why scientific journals are so expensive, and are general purchased as a single issue an entire research team shares.

Yet, apparently some people still think History Channel, NatGeo, and Discovery are "educational" channels. Hah, no... such is not the case.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
There just isn't enough energy to create a 5 mile wide crater.

There wasn't enough energy nor any explosives or unspent fuel in the tiny impactor that hit Temple 1 either. It was just supposed to spray up some ice chips... but we all saw the bright blast that was a result that lasted for days (recorded on Hubble) So forgive me if I don't trust NASA scientists to know what they are doing

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984

Originally posted by Umbra Sideralis
Now, just using your exemple...You can throw that ball with extreme strengh at the train...how do you have absolutly sure it will not pass over a window and hit the train driver? result... train crash because driver was uncoscious...

We know the density of the moon, therefore we can predict the effects of an impact. Larger objects have hit it and it has not been knocked out of it's orbit.

-"Other incognitae can show up at surprise, and you are the only one from the beggining that's continue to talk about something knocking the moon from it's orbit...not me!"

Originally posted by Umbra Sideralis
WE just know some possible scenarious with the Moon on this, but for sure we dont know or can predict all of them, that's the problem. Ignoring that is ignoring inteligence & prudence!

Prudence? They have worked out mathematically, based on the moons density and the mass and speed of the impacter just how much damage will be done.

- "True, but for that to be 100% safe we need to know ALL about the
Moon, and we don't!, Even just Maths can proof that this test can show up always some "surprises"!"

Originally posted by Umbra Sideralis
Just because this scenario includes Titans like the Moon & the Earth,we can't forget how weak and fragile a ecossystem can be some times!

It's not an ecosystem, ecosystems require some kind of life.

"Wrong mate... "Earth-Moon" is a Ecosystem, you have life on earth and they depend on this System on the moon's natural balance, it is a extremly important factor!"

Originally posted by Umbra Sideralis
And about the size....never forget that it was just need one simple Virus to possible lead you to certain death! I am sure you know how small a virus can be.

Yes but we know how viruses function and understand why they are so dangerous, just as we know the density of the moon and can therefore predict how it will react to an impact.

"Sorry but that's not correct. We do not know 100% how ALL the virus function at all!
That's , for exemple why we have problems like the suine flu atm! If we understend all about virus and genetics, that problem will not exist for sure.

Originally posted by Umbra Sideralis
Even in Earth we can affect the Moon...it is knowed that mining extration for centurys, of some elements on Earth is messing with moon's - Earth distance! What you need more to know that we really need a more delicate aproach on this matter?!

Please provide peer revieed research for that claim. The moon is slowly moving out of the earths orbit according to measurments, however it has been moving away long before humans existed. The last measurment i read was i think 4cm a year.

- " No mate, it is time for you to do your home work, i will not waiste more time unsering you, when in the final all your argumentation is just based on what you belive...not Racional and factual subjects.
I dont have the time either, do a honest search and i think you can be enlightned better on this subjects."
Stay well mate!"
[edit on 6-10-2009 by ImaginaryReality1984]

reply to post by zorgon


Actually NASA scientists predicted there may be a flash because deep impact (the thing that hit tepel 1) was travelling at 4 miles per second and the energy was therefore greater than the thing that is to hit the moon. In laboratory experiments when small beads were fired into objects at high speeds there were small flashes of light.

[edit on 6-10-2009 by ImaginaryReality1984]

reply to post by Umbra Sideralis


I have provided facts and figures and you don't address them, you called the Moon an ecosystem and i said it wasn't. Whilst the moon effects earth ecosystem the moon itself is not an ecosystem.

I never said we know how all viruses work at every stage, i simply meant we know viruses are RNA bundles that use other cells to replicate. You tried to twist everything i said to discredit my other facts and the figures i provided, classic way of avoiding the arguments made.

So is it safe to say that NASA has been to the never moon.

reply to post by zorgon

but we all saw the bright blast that was a result that lasted for days (recorded on Hubble)

The flash from Temple 1 impact lasted for days? Perhaps you could provide some evidence.

I don't recall seeing any images of the actual impact from Hubble (or Deep Impact) but I have seen the sequences of the debris cloud expanding from the comet. Of course, escape velocity on a comet is quite a bit less than on the Moon so the debris would just keep going out into space.

Seems to me the mission went pretty much according to plan. We learned a lot.
deepimpact.umd.edu...

[edit on 10/6/2009 by Phage]

reply to post by Phage


This should give you some interesting data on the flash.

impact.arc.nasa.gov...

I dont' remember reading it lasted days either but there does seem to have beena short flash.

[edit on 6-10-2009 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Bombing the Moon because we are trying to find if water exists there? Is this just some bogus excuse?

[edit on 6-10-2009 by DalJigsaw]