It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
I would say that as a Christian i have a living relationship with God.
Do other faiths have the same ??
Well that’s what many claim, whether they do or not is of course debatable but no less so than it’s debatable that you do. This is where the logical conundrum lies, if a Sikh describes the same religious experiences as you then how do you rationalise that with the fact that you believe your god to be the one true god (or set of gods). The same with saying these other people were raised with their belief, some were and some weren’t but the same can be said for most Christians.
Originally posted by Mike_A
Why is your god the real god?
Originally posted by jon1
reply to post by Mike_A
This is a good time to ask other members of other faiths than christianity whether they have a relationship with thier God, the same way that christians do..
Do they lay hands on people and they are healed?
Does God give you the ability to hear propheic words from him?
Does your God give you experiences that could have only come from him?
So you don’t believe in the Christian or any(?) god you just believe that the historical story of Christ is one that could reasonably lead one to determine that this god should be the true god?
Fair enough, though I do still disagree with this logic.
If you use the argument that the Christian god is or is likely to be the true god because what he teaches demonstrates the best moral standing then you must deal with the morality that you would not agree with as well.
No my question is about what you, or anyone else, personally believes and why you believe it. Assuming you know yourself and why you make conscious decisions then it’s easily answerable; the meaning of life is not.
It’s not “what’s the point in life” it’s “what’s the point in believing something which you can’t find reason in”.
1 Don't give glory to us, O LORD. Don't give glory to us. Instead, give glory to your name because of your mercy and faithfulness.
2 Why should other nations say, "Where is their God?"
3 Our God is in heaven. He does whatever he wants.
4 Their idols are made of silver and gold. They were made by human hands.
5 They have mouths, but they cannot speak. They have eyes, but they cannot see.
6 They have ears, but they cannot hear. They have noses, but they cannot smell.
7 They have hands, but they cannot feel. They have feet, but they cannot walk. They cannot even make a sound with their throats.
8 Those who make idols end up like them. So does everyone who trusts them.
All I told you is how I would personally make my guess.
Also, I never said I didn't believe in God. What I'm saying is that when you jump to a hypothetical like IF God exists then other things HAVE to go with that. IF God exists THEN Heaven must exist too. IF Heaven does not THEN God does not either. At least not the Bible God. But atheists like to debate about death as if God is killing people, but Heaven isn't real. You can't have it both ways.
I am disagreeing with the methodology you set out as being the best, if flawed, way of picking a god.
For example do you really agree that people should be burned to death for who they marry? Should a taro card reader be stoned to death? Should homosexuals be put to death? Should a couple who have sex during the woman’s period be exiled?
You go on again with disagreeing with half the morals thing? Where did I say I disagreed with half the morals?
Oh, now it becomes entirely clear to me. Like so many others, you never read the rest of the book.
What do you mean they aren’t alive?
Because it doesn't matter. When there is no correct method, you just pick one.
Just like if you don't believe in God. You would have your reasons for not believing in God, but I or someone else could sit down and point out flaws in your method and say, well why do you believe what you believe then?
The reason I personally like Jesus is because it does not matter if God was real or not. Either way, Jesus still tried to save everyone from the OT law even if all the religious people haven't figured that out yet.
For example the Israelite's made a golden calf as a god to worship and lead them after they left Egypt , was it alive, nope never alive. It was a icon of gold that had no power, and was crushed out of existence shortly after it was made. The difference is the other false gods have just as little power but have persisted to this day.
The question is how do you know this. You're just making the claim, a Hindu could say the same things about your god. What makes you right and them wrong?
17 It happened, when Ahab saw Elijah, that Ahab said to him, "Is that you, you troubler of Israel?"
18 He answered, "I have not troubled Israel; but you, and your father's house, in that you have forsaken the commandments of Yahweh, and you have followed the Baals.
19 Now therefore send, and gather to me all Israel to Mount Carmel, and four hundred fifty of the prophets of Baal, and four hundred of the prophets of the Asherah, who eat at Jezebel's table."
20 So Ahab sent to all the children of Israel, and gathered the prophets together to Mount Carmel.
21 Elijah came near to all the people, and said, "How long will you waver between the two sides? If Yahweh is God, follow him; but if Baal, then follow him." The people answered him not a word.
22 Then Elijah said to the people, "I, even I only, am left a prophet of Yahweh; but Baal's prophets are four hundred fifty men.
23 Let them therefore give us two bulls; and let them choose one bull for themselves, and cut it in pieces, and lay it on the wood, and put no fire under; and I will dress the other bull, and lay it on the wood, and put no fire under it.
24 You call on the name of your god, and I will call on the name of Yahweh. The God who answers by fire, let him be God." All the people answered, "It is well said."
25 Elijah said to the prophets of Baal, "Choose one bull for yourselves, and dress it first; for you are many; and call on the name of your god, but put no fire under it."
26 They took the bull which was given them, and they dressed it, and called on the name of Baal from morning even until noon, saying, Baal, hear us. But there was no voice, nor any who answered. They leaped about the altar which was made.
27 It happened at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, "Cry aloud; for he is a god. Either he is musing, or he has gone aside, or he is on a journey, or perhaps he sleeps and must be awakened."
28 They cried aloud, and cut themselves in their way with knives and lances, until the blood gushed out on them.
29 It was so, when midday was past, that they prophesied until the time of the offering of the offering; but there was neither voice, nor any to answer, nor any who regarded.
30 Elijah said to all the people, "Come near to me;" and all the people came near to him. He repaired the altar of Yahweh that was thrown down.
31 Elijah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, to whom the word of Yahweh came, saying, "Israel shall be your name."
32 With the stones he built an altar in the name of Yahweh. He made a trench around the altar, large enough to contain two measures of seed.
33 He put the wood in order, and cut the bull in pieces, and laid it on the wood. He said, "Fill four jars with water, and pour it on the burnt offering, and on the wood."
34 He said, "Do it a second time;" and they did it the second time. He said, "Do it a third time;" and they did it the third time.
35 The water ran around the altar; and he also filled the trench with water.
36 It happened at the time of the offering of the offering, that Elijah the prophet came near, and said, "Yahweh, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Israel, let it be known this day that you are God in Israel, and that I am your servant, and that I have done all these things at your word.
37 Hear me, Yahweh, hear me, that this people may know that you, Yahweh, are God, and that you have turned their heart back again."
38 Then the fire of Yahweh fell, and consumed the burnt offering, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench.
39 When all the people saw it, they fell on their faces. They said, "Yahweh, he is God! Yahweh, he is God!"
40 Elijah said to them, "Seize the prophets of Baal! Don't let one of them escape!" They seized them. Elijah brought them down to the brook Kishon, and killed them there.