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Why is your god the real god?

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posted on Oct, 7 2009 @ 08:06 AM
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reply to post by Mike_A
 




I would say that as a Christian i have a living relationship with God.
Do other faiths have the same ??



Well that’s what many claim, whether they do or not is of course debatable but no less so than it’s debatable that you do. This is where the logical conundrum lies, if a Sikh describes the same religious experiences as you then how do you rationalise that with the fact that you believe your god to be the one true god (or set of gods). The same with saying these other people were raised with their belief, some were and some weren’t but the same can be said for most Christians.




This is a good time to ask other members of other faiths than christianity whether they have a relationship with thier God, the same way that christians do..

Do they lay hands on people and they are healed?
Does God give you the ability to hear propheic words from him?
Does your God give you experiences that could have only come from him?


It's an interesting subject and one that i have not really looked into.
Because my God does do these things for me i can only believe that he is the real God..

My experiences are only debatable to those who were not whitnesses to the above events. to those that were, there is no doubt to thier authenticity.


The problem here is that nothing other than seeing things with your own eyes would convince you that anything i say is true, then even if you did you would probbley think Darren Brown had something to do with it.

It is only when you experience these things for yourself that will you find out who God is..




posted on Oct, 7 2009 @ 08:16 AM
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reply to post by lighthse777
 


I disagree both that the bible is accurate and that others show no accuracy. For example I don’t know of any contemporary records that mention Jesus Christ and the concept of the great flood is not supported by geological evidence. You also can’t say that it’s true because an earlier book prophesized a later book because you have no evidence that the latter was not written with knowledge of the earlier.

Though I still disagree with it I do think that this is the most solid basis for believing one religion over another, at least it is somewhat testable.



posted on Oct, 7 2009 @ 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by Mike_A
Why is your god the real god?


Because this is the way I currently view god today. Yesterday, I saw things differently. Tomorrow, I'm likely going to see differently still.

Truth is an ever changing thing that is relative to my perspective.



posted on Oct, 7 2009 @ 12:05 PM
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Originally posted by jon1
reply to post by Mike_A
 



This is a good time to ask other members of other faiths than christianity whether they have a relationship with thier God, the same way that christians do..

Do they lay hands on people and they are healed?
Does God give you the ability to hear propheic words from him?
Does your God give you experiences that could have only come from him?


Yes these relationships exist outside your god. As a Pagan and Wiccan I have seen miracles under the name of several goddesses. I follow Isis for example. A friend of mine follows Hygeia and personally laid hands on my forehead and eradicated a migraine that was beating me up. Took all of several seconds.

As for documentation, Isis is shown to have lived and I have seen her do amazing works so I guess yes...my answer is yes, gods outside of Christianity can do the same and I have a very deep living relationship with her.

-Kyo



posted on Oct, 7 2009 @ 11:06 PM
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reply to post by Mike_A
 




So you don’t believe in the Christian or any(?) god you just believe that the historical story of Christ is one that could reasonably lead one to determine that this god should be the true god?

Fair enough, though I do still disagree with this logic.


Why are you still trying to bait me with this "true" God stuff? I already told you I don't have any way to know for sure. You're just trying to attack again. I told you I have no way of knowing and so you come back with oh you really think that can find the true God? I just told you I have no method of finding the "true" God.

Stop trying to turn the conversation around just so you can argue with me.
You thought you knew the answer everyone would give to the question you asked and when I came back with a different one you didn't have an argument already prepared. So, you keep trying to drag it back to the answer you THOUGHT I would give just so you can argue. Please pay attention. I did not give you the answer you were already prepared for. This means you have to prepare another one.

Unless of course you agree with me that there is no way to know the "true" God. Don't you agree with me? Do you know of a way to find the "true" God? If you do I'd like to hear it. If not then that means you probably agree with me that there is no way. It's okay if you agree with me. You can just go ahead and just say that. You don't have to be ashamed.

Also, I never said I didn't believe in God. What I'm saying is that when you jump to a hypothetical like IF God exists then other things HAVE to go with that. IF God exists THEN Heaven must exist too. IF Heaven does not THEN God does not either. At least not the Bible God. But atheists like to debate about death as if God is killing people, but Heaven isn't real. You can't have it both ways. One hypothetical leads to another. If you assume one thing exists that means you may have to also assume ANOTHER thing exists or your logic may break down and therefore you may not understand what the Bible is saying. Of course the Bible doesn't make any sense if you assume Heaven does not exist. No wonder atheists don't understand it.

But I'll repeat, here's my method for finding the true God......NADA! Don't have one. Already told you that. All I told you is how I would personally make my guess. You're free to make your guess anyway you want.

With the first born sons. Yes, the families had a real bad day that day. But they were being punished. They were supposed to suffer. So to say it does't make any sense because think of how they suffered? That doesn't make any sense. They were being punished. Of course they suffered.




If you use the argument that the Christian god is or is likely to be the true god because what he teaches demonstrates the best moral standing then you must deal with the morality that you would not agree with as well.


What morality don't I agree with? You're making a logical error. You assume because you don't agree with one of God's decisions or that someone else wouldn't agree with it, that I don't either. I never said I disagreed with any of the morality or decisions made by God in the Bible. You're projecting your thoughts onto me. Remember, not everyone thinks like you do. I may agree with everything in there. I never said either way remember?

Also, the best moral standing is subjective. What you think is the "best" moral standing and what I think is might be two different things.
Some people support the death penalty and some don't. We could argue about that all day and get nowhere. So, the word "best" leads us to a pointless political conversation and we all know how those end. They don't.

Remember, this is how I would make my guess at which God was right. You're not the same person as me. You would most likely do it some other way. The choice is up to you.



No my question is about what you, or anyone else, personally believes and why you believe it. Assuming you know yourself and why you make conscious decisions then it’s easily answerable; the meaning of life is not.

It’s not “what’s the point in life” it’s “what’s the point in believing something which you can’t find reason in”.


You're mistaken again, it's you that can't find reason. I already told you my reason. Because I agree with the teachings of Jesus. That reason might not work for you. You'll have to find your own reason for believing in whatever you believe in.

My advice would be to just try to believe there's something more though. Most of the greatest inventions ever created were created by people that had no reason to believe their crazy idea would work. Just because you personally have no reason in believing in it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. But there's no way of knowing for sure until you find it.


[edit on 7-10-2009 by tinfoilman]

[edit on 7-10-2009 by tinfoilman]



posted on Oct, 7 2009 @ 11:59 PM
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This is represents the real God



He has defeated and humiliated many gods in the past and will do so again in the near future because he is the Creator, whereas the other gods are the created. And some are are just fake inventions.

Psalms 115 3-8


1 Don't give glory to us, O LORD. Don't give glory to us. Instead, give glory to your name because of your mercy and faithfulness.
2 Why should other nations say, "Where is their God?"
3 Our God is in heaven. He does whatever he wants.
4 Their idols are made of silver and gold. They were made by human hands.
5 They have mouths, but they cannot speak. They have eyes, but they cannot see.
6 They have ears, but they cannot hear. They have noses, but they cannot smell.
7 They have hands, but they cannot feel. They have feet, but they cannot walk. They cannot even make a sound with their throats.
8 Those who make idols end up like them. So does everyone who trusts them.



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 12:10 AM
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Why is my god the real god?

Thats easy to answer.

He is my god. There are many like him but this one is mine. My god is my best friend. he is my life. I must master him as I must master my life. Without me, my god is useless. Without my god I am useless.



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 05:29 AM
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reply to post by tinfoilman
 


I’m not baiting you, don’t be so sensitive. This topic is about the logic and reasoning behind believing that one particular god is the real god and others are false, if you don’t want to discuss that either from a personal or conceptual point of view then what are you doing in this thread?


All I told you is how I would personally make my guess.


And that is what my last post talked about yet you have gone on a rant about an attack that never happened.

I am disagreeing with the methodology you set out as being the best, if flawed, way of picking a god.

Now, you said “since I believe those [Christian] values are the correct ones that would most likely be passed down by a good God, then when trying to find the correct God it would have to be one of the religions that teach those values and comes closest to that.”

Now my problem with this stems from the likelihood that most people wouldn’t actually agree with all or even many of the morals that the Christian bible teaches. This isn’t a logical error, the vast majority of people I have talked to, Christian or not, do not agree with what the bible teaches.

For example do you really agree that people should be burned to death for who they marry? Should a taro card reader be stoned to death? Should homosexuals be put to death? Should a couple who have sex during the woman’s period be exiled?

If one does agree with all of these then the position is a little more tenable though I wouldn’t want to share a house with them.

But further more good morals doesn’t mean that you can reasonably say that this is the best bet to be the right god. As I said earlier you can agree with the morals but not believe the source; many would say Happy Days espoused good morals but there’s no reason to believe the Fonze was a real person.

So if someone was to hypothetically say “I believe in X god because I agree with the morals it teaches” but then disagree with half of them, then I would ask how can you cherry pick what morals you acknowledge and why does this mean that the source of these morals should be a god where you would probably accept that the source of good morals in a Dickens novel was human? The only real difference is that one claims to be a god and the other doesn’t.


Also, I never said I didn't believe in God. What I'm saying is that when you jump to a hypothetical like IF God exists then other things HAVE to go with that. IF God exists THEN Heaven must exist too. IF Heaven does not THEN God does not either. At least not the Bible God. But atheists like to debate about death as if God is killing people, but Heaven isn't real. You can't have it both ways.


Where have I done that?

You seem to want to make this about whether or not god exists, that’s not the point of this thread. The point is to find out why you (or other posters) believe what you believe, nothing more.

Can you clarify exactly what you believe, as in do you believe in the Christian god etc, so there is no further confusion?

reply to post by Blue_Jay33
 


Did you read the whole OP?

Many religions say similar things so why is it correct when your religion says it but not when others do?



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 11:08 AM
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reply to post by Mike_A
 


Because gods like these guys have no power, because the aren't alive.

files.abovetopsecret.com...

Yup it's that simple.

[edit on 8-10-2009 by Blue_Jay33]



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 10:41 PM
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reply to post by Mike_A
 


God gave us man a way to determine if He is real, and His book is truly from Him, an omniscient entity..

Prophecy. The Hold Bible is the only one that is 1/3 prophecy. And to date it's 100% accurate, that's plenty enough to convince me it/He is real.


[edit on 8-10-2009 by NOTurTypical]



posted on Oct, 10 2009 @ 01:20 AM
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reply to post by Mike_A
 




I am disagreeing with the methodology you set out as being the best, if flawed, way of picking a god.


I'm sorry, nice way to put words my mouth and then say you're not baiting me. Where exactly did I say I had the best method? I never claimed to have the best method. I just told you the method I used personally. It's best for me maybe, but you'll just have to bet your soul your own way. It is your soul after all.

You're still trying to drag it back to me having an answer so you can criticize my answer. Now you're putting words in my mouth like "best" so you can do that. What's best for me, may not be what works for you.

Of course my method is flawed. Any method used will be flawed. Let's use some basic logic. You ask how do you know which is the "real" God? I say I don't know, but this is how I would guess personally, but I don't know for sure.

Alright, so logically since I don't know the way to find out the "real" God we must assume that ANY method used would be flawed correct? If it wasn't flawed, it would just be THE WAY. Any method you and or anyone else comes up with will be just as flawed. If you have one that is not flawed I would love to hear it. Do you? Or are you yet again dissapointed in me for not having an answer to a question that you also, do not have an answer for?

Just like if we were at Vegas and we had to bet on red or black. You'd bet your way and I'd bet my way, but we'd both know neither method is perfect because neither one of us KNOW if it's going to be red or black. But since it's my money I get to bet it how I want. However, your method will also be flawed because neither one of us know the "correct" way. If we did we wouldn't be betting. We'd just be taking the house and they probably wouldn't let us play anymore. But that's Vegas for ya.

You go on again with disagreeing with half the morals thing? Where did I say I disagreed with half the morals? You're still making the same logical error that because you don't like what the Bible says I don't either. Stop making that error.



For example do you really agree that people should be burned to death for who they marry? Should a taro card reader be stoned to death? Should homosexuals be put to death? Should a couple who have sex during the woman’s period be exiled?


Oh, now it becomes entirely clear to me. Like so many others, you never read the rest of the book.

The OT also says adulterers should be stoned to death. When an adulter was brought to Jesus and they asked him what should be done with her, did Jesus do what the OT commanded? Not just suggested, but COMMANDED? Did he stone the women to death?

Uh no. He didn't. He left the women very much alive and let her go on her way. That's strange don't you think? When you understand why he did that and when you understand what the Bible actually says, then maybe you can come and try to rag on it without giving away the fact you never even read it.

He also didn't kill any homosexuals or taro card readers. Weird? Where in the Bible does Jesus say to mow down homosexuals with a lawn mower? I must have missed that part? In fact killing any of those people would be about the worst insult one could make against Jesus.

Why? Well, you'll have to read the book to understand why, but I'll give you a hint. Someone already died for all of mankind's sins including the taro card reader's sin and the homosexual's sin and my sin and everyone's sin. Their sin was already paid for by someone else. You don't insult a gift like that by saying it wasn't enough or that he didn't do enough.

You don't kill someone for their sins when their sins have already been paid in full. Now we see the Bible's morals contrasted with yours. A man gives his life to save mankind so we no longer have to die for and kill each other for our sins, and you turn around and say that's not enough? How greedy is that? What more do you want?


[edit on 10-10-2009 by tinfoilman]



posted on Oct, 10 2009 @ 05:50 AM
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reply to post by Blue_Jay33
 


What do you mean they aren’t alive? Those who believe in them consider that they were physically alive at one point and consider them to still exist today. They also consider them very powerful and would point to their scriptures, current good fortune etc as evidence. How is this different to your justification of your belief?

reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I’ve heard a lot about such prophecies but I’ve never seen any evidence.

Even so other religions have their own prophecies and believe that they have come true. How do you deal with these claims?

reply to post by tinfoilman
 


You keep avoiding the point of the thread, I am asking about each individuals personal beliefs and their logical reasoning for holding these beliefs. Yes other people can have different reasoning but this is about you and your reasoning; I assume that most people believe their reasoning makes the most sense at least to them.

I think you’re just giving me the run around to avoid the question, on the one hand you believe in the Christian god (as you have said in other threads) yet you keep claiming you’re don’t know this to be correct. So then why do you believe in this god and not another if you have no way of knowing? What’s the point? That’s what I want to know.

If your reasoning is this moral argument then I have set out my problems with that, could you address them? It doesn’t matter if other people can use different methodologies, I agree that they can but I want to know why you think what you think.


You go on again with disagreeing with half the morals thing? Where did I say I disagreed with half the morals?


I didn’t say you did, I’m asking if you agree with them or not.


Oh, now it becomes entirely clear to me. Like so many others, you never read the rest of the book.


I have and I think there are many contradictions, such as the one you point out.

Divorcing the new testament from the old is just a copout. But even if you do you can still retrospectively consider these old rules and decide whether they were right or wrong; you can also consider whether you think it right that a person born in 100BC should be burned alive while another born 100AD should not.

But again this isn’t my only problem with this reasoning, as I have already said agreeing with the morals of a book does not give any insight into why one would take the step to believing the characters were real. So why do you?



posted on Oct, 10 2009 @ 08:14 AM
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reply to post by Mike_A
 


Because it doesn't matter. When there is no correct method, you just pick one.

I know you pointed out the problems with the "method" and that it's flawed, but all methods are flawed. Also, any method to determine that
there is no God with absolute certainly would also most likely be flawed.

If someone ever finds a method without a flaw then we'll be able to prove if God is real or not 100 percent, but we can't do that yet. So it just comes down to why you believe what you believe.

Just like if you don't believe in God. You would have your reasons for not believing in God, but I or someone else could sit down and point out flaws in your method and say, well why do you believe what you believe then?

Your methods for not believing in a God could be just as flawed as my methods of believing in a God. For example, God isn't testable via the scientific method, but people still use the logic to say there's no God. Well, he's not testable so that doesn't tell us anything. We're as much in the dumb as we were when we started.

We never get anywhere that way. When it comes to the unknown and you have to make a decision, you just make the one you think is right knowing you could be wrong. That's all anyone can do.

The reason I personally like Jesus is because it does not matter if God was real or not. Either way, Jesus still tried to save everyone from the OT law even if all the religious people haven't figured that out yet.

Even if God was not real, when someone that believes he was real comes in and tries to kill all the homosexuals you can say no no no. Jesus already paid for their sins just like he did everyone else remember?

So, either way, even if God wasn't real Jesus still did everything he could do to save people from the OT law and to save the religious people from themselves at least. Unfortunately, most Christians are still ignorant about their own religion and still don't get it, but maybe one day they will.

They still say things like the law of God is unchanging and all those rules apply, but I don't see any of them rebuilding the temple so they can take their livestock up to it and sacrifice their livestock. I don't see them killing their teenagers when they misbehave like the OT commands. I don't see them using bird's blood to cure lepers.

But then they're like, oh no, not that part of the OT law! That HAS changed. It's just the part about the homosexuals that's still the same. We're still supposed to kill them right?

It's like uh no. Yes, the OT law is the same as it always has been. Sin must be paid through death and sacrifice, but all our sin already has been paid by Jesus through death and sacrifice. But try getting that through their head right? But nobody seems to understand why Jesus died. Even the people that believe in Jesus. It's so we could live, not kill each other. After all, if all the OT laws apply, Jesus's trip was sort of a waste of time I'd think.

The whole point of the OT law is nobody could live up to it except Jesus. The whole point of it was that everyone deserves to die when subjected to the OT law, not just homosexuals, but everybody. My sin might not be homosexuality, but one of those sins in there, we can all find one or a million we've done. If you think my post is long now, wait until I post all the bad things I've ever done. Virtually everything was a sin in the OT.

Now I'm not saying those things are not still sins or that if you do them you're not sinning. You may still be sinning, but the debt has already been paid for those sins so we no longer have to kill people when they commit one because they no longer have to be killed to die to pay for a debt that's already been paid.

But God doesn't have to be real for Jesus to have made a difference. Regardless of if the OT laws were from God or just some guy that made the OT up to control everyone, it doesn't matter. Jesus's sacrifice still made all the OT laws irrelevant. All that matters are the few commandments left by Jesus. Love one another, don't murder, help the needy, help the poor, turn away from your sin as best you can and so forth.

So yeah the law didn't change, but we did. Jesus couldn't change the word of God, so he changed us instead. He left us with no debts to pay as long as we would believe in him. So, that's why I believe in Jesus.

The last thing I want is for a whole bunch of Pharisees to start running around and start killing homosexuals again which they're still trying to do that today. They're just not called Pharisees anymore. Now we usually call them intolerant morons or fundies. But if I didn't believe in Jesus I'd have no authority to call them out with their own religion. Let alone all the other things Jesus did for everyone if God was real.

But I could still be wrong, because I don't have 100 percent method. Nobody does.

EDIT: But let me stress. I say I believe in the morals of Jesus, because Jesus's morals was to save us for all the those things in the Bible you don't agree with.

So when you say things like, you don't think we should kill the homosexuals do you? Well no, of course not. That's why I agree with Jesus's morals. Because that's what he thought too. That he should save us from those type of morals. He should save us exactly from all those things you don't like about the Bible. That was his whole point.


[edit on 10-10-2009 by tinfoilman]



posted on Oct, 10 2009 @ 08:28 AM
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reply to post by Mike_A
 


Fair question my friend, God (of the Holy Bible) challenges anyone who is a skeptic, or who worshiped a pagan god to a challenge:

"Bring in your idols to tell us what is going to happen. Tell us what the former things were, so that we may consider them and know their final outcome. Or declare to us the things to come, tell us what the future holds, so that we may know you are gods." ~Isaiah 41:22-23, New International Version

And I cannot tell you what I have studied in it's entirety for the past 20+ years, but my main focus has been Eschatology, (Biblical Prophecy), and it is accurate so for to 100%. I'm utterly amazed, especially the prophecies of Daniel telling us what the future of man and governments would hold, or Revelation and John telling us about the modern times and the NWO.

Other religions may have a couple here or there, but the Bible is 35% prophetic in nature, or 1/3 of it if you will. I have scores of books on the subject and it boils down to; are you REALLY interested in learning if it's true or not?? Are you REALLY wanting to look at it as a fact finding quest? Then go to a local Christian bookstore and buy a book of two on Bible Prophecy/End Times and tackle it with an open mind on a search/quest for the truth wherever it may lead you.

But God claims to be the only one, He says to hold His word accountable under scrutiny, and dares us to verify it ourselves. Even a simple Google search can show us fulfilled Bible prophecies, Daniel is probably the most profound book, Jesus made numerous prophecies, and John tells us what is to come at the end in Revelation.

I'll link a few, but the journey for truth, the journey to find out for yourself is up to you because in the end, you will be accountable to God on judgment day, I won't be accountable for you, the next guy won't be accountable, it will be just you and the Lord. So you need to find this truth on your own. And I GUARANTEE you, if you honestly in your heart pray to Him and ask if He is in fact true and to "reveal" Himself in truth he will answer that prayer.

Can you believe Bible prophecy?

100 fulfilled Bible prophecies

Fulfilled Prophecy: Evidence for the Reliability of the Bible

Evidence of the Divine inspiration of Scripture

Prophetic Predictions the Prove the Bible's Authority



posted on Oct, 10 2009 @ 09:56 AM
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reply to post by Mike_A
 





What do you mean they aren’t alive?


It's a simple concept.

For example the Israelite's made a golden calf as a god to worship and lead them after they left Egypt , was it alive, nope never alive. It was a icon of gold that had no power, and was crushed out of existence shortly after it was made. The difference is the other false gods have just as little power but have persisted to this day.

[edit on 10-10-2009 by Blue_Jay33]



posted on Oct, 10 2009 @ 10:16 AM
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reply to post by tinfoilman
 



Because it doesn't matter. When there is no correct method, you just pick one.


But you have the option of picking none. You don’t have to make a decision so why pick this god or that one over any other or none?

You can even still say that there is a god but just not commit to defining it.

I doubt you would take the same view with most other things. For example, unless you’re a physicist, you probably wouldn’t say “I believe string theory best unifies quantum mechanics and general relativity”, you’d most likely just say “I don’t know either way” and make no commitment to any theory.


Just like if you don't believe in God. You would have your reasons for not believing in God, but I or someone else could sit down and point out flaws in your method and say, well why do you believe what you believe then?


Why shouldn’t you do that? It’s the only way we can learn by exploring differing viewpoints.

If you are asking me now then briefly I would say that I don’t believe in god because there is no reason to. But I don’t actively say there is no god, there may be one but unless there is evidence for its existence then I can’t make the leap and say it exists. It’s no different to not believing in aliens or fairies or djinn.


The reason I personally like Jesus is because it does not matter if God was real or not. Either way, Jesus still tried to save everyone from the OT law even if all the religious people haven't figured that out yet.


And if Jesus was real then he was a great person and even if not then at least he was a great character but either way anyone with similar morals can agree on this independent of whether they believe in the same or any god.


reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I’ll give those links a read but I’ve read a lot of these prophecies before and they generally come down to either wishful interpretation or examples of self enclosed prophecies such as those predicting the birth of Jesus Christ. When you can’t independently verify the existence of Jesus how can you say that his birth was predicted? How do you know that someone an AD45 didn’t just hear these earlier stories and decided to write a new one based on those?



posted on Oct, 10 2009 @ 10:18 AM
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reply to post by Blue_Jay33
 



For example the Israelite's made a golden calf as a god to worship and lead them after they left Egypt , was it alive, nope never alive. It was a icon of gold that had no power, and was crushed out of existence shortly after it was made. The difference is the other false gods have just as little power but have persisted to this day.


The question is how do you know this. You're just making the claim, a Hindu could say the same things about your god. What makes you right and them wrong?



posted on Oct, 10 2009 @ 10:23 AM
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reply to post by Mike_A
 


The best book I have ever come across to answer your question is "A Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel. I'm sure it's at your local Christian Book store. If you cannot find it there send my your address in a U2U and I'll mail you my copy free of charge, I'd just ask you return it to me when you're done, I'll even send you $10 with the book for future S&H.

That presens the extra-biblical evidence for Christ. And Lee Strobel began his journey as an atheist.



posted on Oct, 10 2009 @ 10:59 AM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


I’ll stick it on my “to read” list, but it is a long list, I’ll see if I can find a copy online first.

Obviously I haven’t had time to read all of those links but reading the first I do have some comments regarding Nebuchadnezzar's Dream.

This supposedly prophesizes four empires that will rule over Babylon; Babylon, Persia, Macedonian and an unknown fourth.

But Daniel never actually names these empires and since it is rare for an area not be ruled by someone then this prophecy can’t go wrong. Except of course for the fact that it doesn’t mention that the area has now been ruled by at least five empires (and more depending on how you define empire), the Ottoman and the British in addition to the above three. You can explain one by making it the fourth but what about the other?

And where is this kingdom that god would set up that would never be destroyed?

The only way this can make sense is if you start saying “well this bit was literal and this bit was a metaphor, oh and that doesn’t count as an empire but that one does”. It’s the same thing people do to make Nostrodamus’ prophecies sound legit.

All of this is only astounding if someone says “but Daniel prophesized that Babylon would be succeeded by the Persian Empire and that would be succeeded by the Macedonian; how did he know that if god didn’t tell him?”

But Daniel didn’t prophesize this; he just said that Nebuchadnezzar’s dream referred to four empires that will control Babylon. I can make the same prediction now and say that four nations will control Iraq and given enough time it will come true.



posted on Oct, 10 2009 @ 11:10 AM
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reply to post by Mike_A
 



The question is how do you know this. You're just making the claim, a Hindu could say the same things about your god. What makes you right and them wrong?


Hindu gods

Do I need to say anymore?

Or this could be applied to the gods during the time of Israel like Baal, Dagon, Ra and Moloch. They had no power, yet there people trusted those gods to protect them, but because they only existed as statues there power was only a rallying point for worship, but it's faith was misplaced. Those statues got destroyed and there people with them. Thus proving Yahweh to be a God that had real power to actually do something.

1 Kings 18 17-40 is just one example of how a false god and it's followers failed against the true God of power.


17 It happened, when Ahab saw Elijah, that Ahab said to him, "Is that you, you troubler of Israel?"
18 He answered, "I have not troubled Israel; but you, and your father's house, in that you have forsaken the commandments of Yahweh, and you have followed the Baals.
19 Now therefore send, and gather to me all Israel to Mount Carmel, and four hundred fifty of the prophets of Baal, and four hundred of the prophets of the Asherah, who eat at Jezebel's table."
20 So Ahab sent to all the children of Israel, and gathered the prophets together to Mount Carmel.
21 Elijah came near to all the people, and said, "How long will you waver between the two sides? If Yahweh is God, follow him; but if Baal, then follow him." The people answered him not a word.
22 Then Elijah said to the people, "I, even I only, am left a prophet of Yahweh; but Baal's prophets are four hundred fifty men.
23 Let them therefore give us two bulls; and let them choose one bull for themselves, and cut it in pieces, and lay it on the wood, and put no fire under; and I will dress the other bull, and lay it on the wood, and put no fire under it.
24 You call on the name of your god, and I will call on the name of Yahweh. The God who answers by fire, let him be God." All the people answered, "It is well said."
25 Elijah said to the prophets of Baal, "Choose one bull for yourselves, and dress it first; for you are many; and call on the name of your god, but put no fire under it."
26 They took the bull which was given them, and they dressed it, and called on the name of Baal from morning even until noon, saying, Baal, hear us. But there was no voice, nor any who answered. They leaped about the altar which was made.
27 It happened at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, "Cry aloud; for he is a god. Either he is musing, or he has gone aside, or he is on a journey, or perhaps he sleeps and must be awakened."
28 They cried aloud, and cut themselves in their way with knives and lances, until the blood gushed out on them.
29 It was so, when midday was past, that they prophesied until the time of the offering of the offering; but there was neither voice, nor any to answer, nor any who regarded.
30 Elijah said to all the people, "Come near to me;" and all the people came near to him. He repaired the altar of Yahweh that was thrown down.
31 Elijah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, to whom the word of Yahweh came, saying, "Israel shall be your name."
32 With the stones he built an altar in the name of Yahweh. He made a trench around the altar, large enough to contain two measures of seed.
33 He put the wood in order, and cut the bull in pieces, and laid it on the wood. He said, "Fill four jars with water, and pour it on the burnt offering, and on the wood."
34 He said, "Do it a second time;" and they did it the second time. He said, "Do it a third time;" and they did it the third time.
35 The water ran around the altar; and he also filled the trench with water.

36 It happened at the time of the offering of the offering, that Elijah the prophet came near, and said, "Yahweh, the God of Abraham, of Isaac, and of Israel, let it be known this day that you are God in Israel, and that I am your servant, and that I have done all these things at your word.
37 Hear me, Yahweh, hear me, that this people may know that you, Yahweh, are God, and that you have turned their heart back again."
38 Then the fire of Yahweh fell, and consumed the burnt offering, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench.
39 When all the people saw it, they fell on their faces. They said, "Yahweh, he is God! Yahweh, he is God!"
40 Elijah said to them, "Seize the prophets of Baal! Don't let one of them escape!" They seized them. Elijah brought them down to the brook Kishon, and killed them there.


That's how I know!



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