The Tolkien/Alien(Gray) connection

Recently I came upon a minor coincidence between JRR Tolkien's story of Gollum and the story, as I know it, of the Grays. I am referring to the real Grays who are a bit taller and have wrinkled, weathered skin as opposed to the small biotic creatures that most mistake for the Grays. As I was told it, the Grays appearance is the result of a human type lifeform that evolved millenia underground because of a terrestrial holocaust on their planet. And in the Lord of the Rings Tolkein presents the character of Gollum who is supposed to be a Hobbit that is deformed by a prolonged evolution underground to the point that he is no longer recognizable as a Hobbit. It is fairly minor but on the surface a Id have to say a direct correlation is there.

Gollum


Alien



There was a book written in 2007 called Quest for Middle Earth by Dirk Vander Ploeg (www.questformiddle-earth.com...) where he explores the theory that Tolkien had secret knowledge of earth's early history and that he based the Lord of the Rings on this knowledge. Maybe he knew even more than Vander Ploeg could imagine.




[edit on 6-10-2009 by kronos11]

There was a show about the origins of Tolkien's mythos last night on The History Channel's "Clash of the Gods".

You might like this article
Tolkien’s Spy Past

J.R.R. Tolkien was a leading scholar of the English language’s Anglo-Saxon roots, and he invented entire languages for his legendary Middle Earth narratives. According to a new restricted exhibit at Britain’s intelligence-agency Government Communications Headquarters, the acclaimed author and philologist also trained to crack a few languages at the top-secret Government Code and Cypher School before World War II.

-E-

[edit on 6-10-2009 by MysterE]

Originally posted by kronos11
And in the Lord of the Rings Tolkein presents the character of Gollum who is supposed to be a Hobbit that is deformed by a prolonged evolution underground to the point that he is no longer recognizable as a Hobbit...

It is not his life underground that changed Gollum, it was the corruption of the One Ring.

You are confusing what may be a coincidence as a direct correlation. Plus you are relying on just one depiction of Gollum out of possibly hundreds to make your case. For instance, this depiction looks nothing like a grey alien. And even in the image of Gollum you cite there are far more differences than similarities with a grey alien.

Jacksons definition of Gollum is different than what Tolkien intended in the book, Gollum was shaped characteristically by the ring and physically by torture and his environment which the ring took him to. Gollum was captured by Sauron and taken to Isengard where Sauruman tortured him until Gollum confessed that Bilbo had the ring (hence where the Fellowship began.)

Tolkien had no references to Aliens in either of the LOTRs Trilogy or the following books based on Middle Earth afterwards. Although the biggest debate about Tolkien is wether the Books are based on Odinism or a Gaelic sect of Christianity that emerged from ancient Germany.

reply to post by draknoir2


Yep, I saw this show. I thought it was pretty good. I used to think tolken got the idea for these books by smoking opium!

They gave a different origin for tolkens books.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex
It is not his life underground that changed Gollum, it was the corruption of the One Ring.

Still could be a correlation, "The Ring" could be symbolic of technology and the result of it's corruption is the Gray physiology... as I mentioned they survived Millenia underground after their planet's biosphere was virtually destroyed.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex
You are confusing what may be a coincidence as a direct correlation. Plus you are relying on just one depiction of Gollum out of possibly hundreds to make your case. For instance, this depiction looks nothing like a grey alien. And even in the image of Gollum you cite there are far more differences than similarities with a grey alien.

Agreed. But I do believe in fate and the turn of the card and it just so happens the most widely spread image of Gollum is the Jackson version now.

reply to post by MysterE



Thanks.. Ill check it!

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by kronos11
And in the Lord of the Rings Tolkein presents the character of Gollum who is supposed to be a Hobbit that is deformed by a prolonged evolution underground to the point that he is no longer recognizable as a Hobbit...

It is not his life underground that changed Gollum, it was the corruption of the One Ring.

You are confusing what may be a coincidence as a direct correlation. Plus you are relying on just one depiction of Gollum out of possibly hundreds to make your case. For instance, this depiction looks nothing like a grey alien. And even in the image of Gollum you cite there are far more differences than similarities with a grey alien.

Actually, I believe it was the corruption of the ring which actually DROVE gollum underground, to keep the one ring away from those who would steal it. As described in the book, his change of appearance was mostly due to his then prolonged lifespan, due to the ring, and living underground.

I still just think Tolkien was simply a genius. IMO any similarity between the two is PURELY coincidental.

Genius still. Case closed.

Originally posted by kronos11
Still could be a correlation, "The Ring" could be symbolic of technology and the result of it's corruption is the Gray physiology... as I mentioned they survived Millenia underground after their planet's biosphere was virtually destroyed.

Tolkien was explicit that the Lord of the Rings was not allegorical. Gollum is just gollum, he is not representative of any race and the One Ring is just the One Ring. It does not symbolize anything other than the Ring.

There is no correlation. You are ignoring the author's own thoughts on the subject, reading what you want into the work, then relying on shoddy and unsubstantiated information to support your claim.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex
But I do believe in fate and the turn of the card and it just so happens the most widely spread image of Gollum is the Jackson version now.

LOLWUT?

Gollum's similarity to a "grey" is coincidental, in my opinion.

Though as I Tolkien fan and student, I can be sure that his works are FULL of "alien" (as in 'out of the world') beings.

If anyone has a chance, read "The Silmarilion", one of Tolkien's 'unfinished' books that got published after his death (thanks to his son, Christopher Tolkien).

The Lord of the Rings tells a story about the "Third Age of Middle-Earth".
The Silmarilion tells a story about the First Age... how the world was made to be. Who made it. Who was Eru, and who were the Ainur, the Valar...

J.R.R. Tolkien was a devout christian. And a fiercy one, some might say...
But his work is full of reference to beings from "outside", which would come and go, and do as their nature. Ulmo, Melkor, Mandos, Arda, Manwë, etc... 'angelic-like' beings with semi-godly powers. (Those beings were called "Ainur" which means "the powers of the world).

Though looking very "creationist" like, the story also tells of things that were created BEFORE Eä (the World).


It's GREAT and I LOVE IT.... but it's just a story, which has far more philosofical and life experiencies lessons then exobiology hints.


Peace

PS.: but I would love to be wrong!

Under the cliffs of Bimble Bay
Is a little cave of stone
With wet walls of shining grey;
And on the floor a bone,
A white bone that is gnawed quite clean
With sharp white teeth.
But inside nobody can be seen --
He lives far underneath,
Under the floor, down a long hole
Where the sea gurgles and sighs.
Glip is his name...
And Glip listens, and quietly slips
And lies in shadow by.
It is there that Glip steals his bones.
He is a slimy little thing
Sneaking and crawling under fishy stones,
And slinking home to sing
A gurgling sound in his damp hole;
But after the last light
There are darker and wickeder things that prowl
On Bimble rocks at night.

And thus wrote Tolkien in a poem, that was his first inspiration for Gollum. I don't think he had any other intention other than what he was. His works most probably, are the most misinterpreted literature ever (excluding the Bible). He simply wrote a fantasy, nothing more, using many sources, such as Norse mythology, etc. It wasn't an analogy of the WW, it wasn't a statement about religion...

And it wasn't about aliens. Just saying.. stop marring his great work with ridiculous theories.