Whats Next for ManKind?

Well after reading the thread about the different levels of civilizations and how we will progress an interesting thought came to mind.

How will change effect the people of a civilization, since more than one road can be taken to achieve higher levels of civilization

with that as a premise, and assuming that the race survives the transition from type 0 - 1, here are some of the choices the race in question has ( i will say man, since its the only race im aware of)

Mixtures of the below levels could exist

1.) The Singularity

Man will merge with machine, becoming similar to the Borg or star trek. Half-man half-machine, made nearly immortal by the fusion of the two. This is the most likely next step for mankind, as out technology far surpasses our inner intellect. By becoming one with machine we will phase out alot of what harms us today.

2.) Genetic Purity

Though a mastery of genetics, a race masters itself on a physical level. In turn removing the need to sexually reproduce, and instead using cloning. Removing all disease, at the same time losing physical strength in exchange for mental capabilities as a result of atrophy caused by mechanical dependence. Basically Jkrog's theory about the greys .

3.) Balanced Growth

THe most ideal and safest way to develop, this method involved both a singularity and the raising of individual consciousness to the point where a physical body can be replaced with a mechanical one. In essence the civilization exists as ghosts in shells, immortal as long as new robot or doll bodies can be made, or damaged bodies can be repaired.

4.) Matrix

A race creates its own world within an external source, such as a computer generated environment. All needs are provided by machines, however the race chooses to be within a virtual space where they will grow and develop. Basically the matrix, without the amnesia.

5.) Spiritual

A race does not worry itself with mechanism and instead fully devotes itself to spiritualism. This race will be characterized by transcending normal barriers and losing the need for physical bodies. This race will be above life and above death. Basically the ancients from the star gate series.


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anyway just thinking out loud if you can think of any more ways races could evolve please share hope you at least found this entertaining.




[edit on 6-10-2009 by phi1618]

[edit on 6-10-2009 by phi1618]

number 3 seems like a likely step in our distant future (or maybe not so distant), sorta like 1 but with less of a hive mind and more individualism.

great thread


i don't know if i would like being a ghost in a shell, since you cant go back, would it be worth it?

reply to post by phi1618



I have been sitting here thinking about what you are saying and have come to a very disturbing conclusion.

When you stated that you are assuming that we will survive the transition from 0 - 1, I started thinking that what you are assuming is nothing more than a flight of fancy. It is great to think about what we could be, and the discussions could be very interesting.

But then reality sets in and I am forced to take a hard look at humanity and where we stand today, and it's not a pretty picture.

From our food supply (Monsanto, artificial hormones in the food chain, pesticides and the like), to the fact that we continue to kill each other either in war or starvation, to our rape of the planet, we really don't deserve to survive as a species.

Mankind is the worst virus on this planet and we are winning at destroying our host.

I can't see us changing anytime soon and as sad as it is to say, the earth would be much better off without us.

But if, for some reason we do survive, I would think the only way we could evolve is spiritually as this would require altruistic thoughts and actions and as such, treat our home as the Eden that it once was. and could be again.

And that is all that I have to say about that.

I think maybe a big pandemic.. Maybe another war. In a free world its hard to say.. good and bad can come to us. I look for a big war or a global pandemic..

The exploration of the inner, and it's relationship to the outer as being at cause, and the recognition of the end of time in an eternally unfolding present moment from which there is no escape, and therefore, no need to build a machine to house consciousness, since we already have one. Oneness, and lack of separation. The welcoming with open arms of universal love by our very inclusion in creation and the creative process.
A new age of reason, enlightenment, and our collective psychological and spiritual evolution, and it's impact on our world. A new creation. That is my hope and prayer, that we will overcome.

The enemy of this may be considered pure materialism, money, and temporal hiearchical power structures which would seek to imprison the consciousness of man in matter, instead of freeing or liberating matter by the consciousness of spirit.

I vote for cybernetics. Technology rules!

Like said, IF we survive the transition. Which I do not believe we will.

reply to post by phi1618


My take... hmm. Well, for starters, there's no such thing as prophecy or divining the future. We can no more accurately speculate what the world will be like in 2100, than our grandfathers and great-grandfathers could accurately predict what the world of 2009 would be like.

That said, of your proposed scenarios...

1.) The Singularity Man will merge with machine, becoming similar to the Borg or star trek.

The Singularity is generally defined as occurring when the first AI of greater than human intelligence is developed and shows the capability to design an even more powerful next generation of itself. However, I don't think this scenario will occur. Humanity itself will be well on it's way towards brain augmentation long before AI is realistically tenable. The first fully computerized consciousness will likely be a direct emulation of the human brain in a virtual environment. There are already projects underway to accomplish brain emulation. The Blue Brain Project has successfully modeled the Neo-Cortical column in rats on the cellular level - with a molecular emulation currently underway. They've suggested that full emulation of the human brain on a cellular level is doable in the next 10 years. (Source)

It could be said that we've already started this process long ago... with written language, spears, fire, and other technologies that augment our bodies natural limits within an environment. While the direct enhancement of ability through merger with technology is a significant step - it only one of thousands we've already taken collectively to the point were at now.

Also, comparisons to the "Borg" are both silly and unrealistic. It's not possible to sync consciousnesses into a single hive mind, because consciousness and personality themselves are apparently a direct result of our unique brain structures and cognitive abilities. Even identical twins raised in the same environment are unique individuals - even with the amazing similarities in both brain structure and behavior. They are clones of each other, yet that doesn't prevent them from being individuals with their own wills, dispositions, personality quirks, interests, etc. The only way to make the Borg real, would be to exterminate humanity. There would be no need for merger.

Though I do very much anticipate the full merger of technology and biology within this century. Though, I can see the push for cyberization being one more focused on customization aspects - rather than optimization.

2.) Genetic Purity Though a mastery of genetics, a race masters itself on a physical level. In turn removing the need to sexually reproduce, and instead using cloning.

Impossible, for a number of fundamental reasons. There is no such thing as Genetic Purity or Optimized human anatomy. The environment is inert, and thus is incapable of caring about human aspirations of perfection. Additionally, while humanity may find more optimized forms or augments for sexual reproduction - the drive and desire for such is deeply ingrained into our psyches. While we can currently curb and check this drive, we cannot divorce ourselves from it. Sexual reproduction, further, is vital to the generation of unique gene sequences necessary for long term survival of our species, as well as our progeny. The largest boost in unique mutations occur at conception, though our genetic structure will continue to mutate at slower pace for the rest of our lives.

Additionally, any attempt at the removal of evolution - or the standardization of the human genome will doom us to extinction by allowing potential/situational weaknesses to propagate to every "node" in the system - increasing the risk of catastrophic failure of the entire system. Life on Earth has survived hundreds of extinction level events - including several major ones which have decimated up to 80% of all known life. The promotion of diversity is a strength we would be wise not abandon.

And just because we can gain the ability to actively and purposefully modify our genetics towards a set of goals for the common human good (The eradication of pandemic disease, for example) doesn't mean we should rely on it utterly. Novel and unique benign mutations we may well overlook could well provide valuable research and innovation at a later time. The only change this will bring, is to allow evolution to work on the individual level - rather than on populations.

Finally, the dream of clone... anything... is pretty much dead. Clones are created constantly in the natural world... but we call them Identical Twins. Nothing in our research of the twins has, to my knowledge, done anything but dispel the Sci-Fi vision of clones.

3.) Balanced Growth THe most ideal and safest way to develop, this method involved both a singularity and the raising of individual consciousness to the point where a physical body can be replaced with a mechanical one.

There is no such thing as balance in nature, or in the sphere of the human condition. Further, the "raising of consciousness" is impossible without profound modification and redesign of the brain... one that's only going to come through millenia of reproduction cycles. We don't have the luxury of time, and the end result would likely be a net-loss of cognitive ability if we are to survive. Our brains are already stressing the limits of our physical anatomy - both in terms of childbirth complications and energy consumption. To me, the evidence suggests that consciousness, intelligence, and cognition on our current level is indirectly selected against by the environment. One thing is for sure... evolution sure as hell doesn't optimize function. Our brains are a patchwork mess.

4.) Matrix A race creates its own world within an external source, such as a computer generated environment. All needs are provided by machines, however the race chooses to be within a virtual space where they will grow and develop. Basically the matrix, without the amnesia.

This is coming in conjunction with point #1, provided consciousness can exist emulated in a virtual environment. It'll be necessary to solve overpopulation and resource consumption issues. We're already starting to see the first glimmers of it in the entertainment industry. However, once the transition to a digital emulation of the brain is made - I don't realistically see the ability to download again into a traditional organic brain. Everything you are and feel and experience is dependent on your unique organization of over 100 trillion synaptic connections that are constantly changing and rewiring as you learn and experience from moment to moment. I won't say it's impossible... but the challenge would be daunting.

5.) Spiritual A race does not worry itself with mechanism and instead fully devotes itself to spiritualism. This race will be characterized by transcending normal barriers and losing the need for physical bodies. This race will be above life and above death. Basically the ancients from the star gate series.

Romanticized by the "ancients from the star gate series". In reality, it represents the abject surrender to the brutality of nature and the environment. To embrace this path, IMO, is to embrace the road back to the Dark Ages.

Ultimately, however, this path may provide humanity with the greatest opportunity for long term survival. All of the above paths to the future carry with them the overwhelming guarantee that death, and extinction, await us. To embrace technology and science to augment ourselves is desperate reach for a glimmer of hope across a perilous chasm of chance and potential abuse of that technology to eradicate us. A hope that we can beat the odds a bit longer. A chance that we will play a grand role in the history of evolution - and change the course of life on this planet forever with the fruits of our special adaptation. Similar to how oxygen producing algae played their key role in providing the fuel for the metabolic furnace which resulted in the Cambrian Explosion.

To waste that potential is the safest route for humanity as a species, imo, but it similarly damns us all.

I do not wish to imply that I'm making light of the implications of our decisions on which path to choose (though to be honest, I don't think we CAN stop or slow down progress at this point) - but a popular phrase comes to mind. Is it better to burn out in a blaze of glory, or to fade away into obscurity? Whichever you choose, it will not change humanities ultimate fate. Merely color your perception and experience of it.

[edit on 6-10-2009 by Lasheic]

I agree there is change happening right now. I feel its spiritual/soulful something like that. Really hard to put into words.
Reading this thread chills me, makes me think of John Wyndham's The Chrysalids.

en.wikipedia.org...
(explores prejudices in a post apocalyptic world)

This change in humans is happening now and it isn't happening to everyone.
I have had some weird/different experiences lately, and I cant put them into words.
How do you explain to someone you just 'know' something? And why can I tell those who have this........I dont know what to call it........thing. Evolution maybe? Adaptation?
It scares me that this isnt happening to everyone......you see SO much us & them everywhere we just dont need another one.

Originally posted by Lasheic
The Blue Brain Project has successfully..

I hope it's better than the Blue Balls Project I've been working on for too long now..

What's next? Well, what has already occured..

Men are becoming more like women. The air, water, and food has been contaminated globally. Over a billion people will go without adequate food for health this year...

I just think that imagining a utopia is somewhat foolish, considering we can't even solve basic problems today! Most people want the same basic rights, but we've got too many layers of hogwash bottling things up, and giving the means for selfish powergrabs to be had.

We've been aware about certain issues like food & water shortages, climate changes, etc..yet have done little to truly help/advert/adapt to these changes.

I think what's next is the collapse of civilization, followed by an acceleration of species extinction. Unless we get our act together soon, and get off this rock, I think it's mostly downhill from here on out.

I don't buy into any of that propaganda about civilization evolving. I feel it is just conditioning us to be more excepting to being ruled by the elite. What is it all for but to make the lives of a few easier on the broken backs of the many.

I like philosophical threads like this. What is interesting to me is that a lot of posters in this thread are talking about the ruin man has created and how it is impossible to evolve to the next class of civilization due to the disparity, starvation, war and all of the other bad things humans are responsible for.

What we are forgetting is all of the good things too. We are mastering genetics, technology, science, space exploration and other things.

When you look at the big picture, the same competitive nature that has given us advancements in technology and development has also led to war and class stratification.

Can a civilization start from boats and simple tech to where we are today without war and all of the 'bad things' that come along with it? Probably not nearly as quickly. I would say the past 500 years of civilization advancement for humans would take 2000+ years in peace and harmony. I am not saying war and oppression is a good thing, I am just say it is a great catalyst for advancement.

The question is: now that we have pretty advanced tech which is inching us near a singularity (the AI kind); can we break from the war/oppression cycle and use AI to continue our advancement?

If singularity gets here in the next 50 years or so - which is a conservative estimate provided we don't blow ourselves up - then I think we will be able to use that as the next vehicle to advancement instead of war. The catch is that we must start weening ourselves off of war now, so we do not build the AI systems on a 'war' platform. If we build AI systems around war, then we will be sorry when those system start advancing technology.

On the other hand, if we build those AI systems on sustainability, they may wipe us off Earth because we are merely parasites!

I think the key is to make sure all technology is built around a certain set of laws which honor human life above all and have secondary objectives of sustainability. Then when AI singularity is achieved, the base of these systems will already have a moral and ethical foundation instead of "make as much money with no regard to the well-being of others as possible".

Originally posted by Raven Hemp
I don't buy into any of that propaganda about civilization evolving. I feel it is just conditioning us to be more excepting to being ruled by the elite. What is it all for but to make the lives of a few easier on the broken backs of the many.

Civilization is always evolving. There may be bad things in this world, but look at western society. 500 years ago being drawn and quartered was not unusual. People would impale others on pikes. Hanging and decapitation were considered the kinder way of being taken care of. Disease, injustice and poverty were often ignored and overlooked.

200 years ago things were changing but: slavery in the US was prevalent. Humans could OWN other humans and they were treated as pure property and nothing more. Men would be split from their wives and sold to other farms hundreds or thousands of miles away. Women were used for sex and to breed more slaves to be sold.

150 years ago machines start to make the use of slaves unnecessary. Machines would not have come along as quickly had it not been for what? Well, the slavery did lead to wealth for the many, wealth for the many led to a higher standard of living - at the expense of the African slaves.

Now you have people living better and after slavery the vehicle for advancement was industrialization. All the while, civilization keeps getting better for the masses. Indoor plumbing, medical care, higher life expectancy.

Industrialization led to technology. Technology is leading to intelligence. Intelligence is leading to higher consciousness.

Yes, there is a sort of evolution there. An evolution of civilization. Oppression still exists too, but you cannot deny the evolution.

Is that some mystical shift of consciousness what is happening without our control? Not exactly. Is it a byproduct of our own advancement? Probably. No matter how you slice it, it is an interesting time to be alive and witness to all of the change. We have seen more change in our everyday lives than any generation that has walked the earth prior to us. We have seen greater fundamental change from generation to generation than ever as well.

[edit on 6-10-2009 by nydsdan]

Technology changes but people stay the same. There are always some that want more and until that mentality changes nothing will. We will only evolve different ways to kill each other. Most of the technological advances came from finding better ways to kill. Also that is putting way to much faith in technology.

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH ITS A BIG SECRET YOU ALL LIKE TO KEEP SECRETS SO DOES HEAVEN LOL.

I would like to see 5, but it probably is going to be 1. Not in a cyborg way but more in a nanotech going around in our body repairing stuff kinda way.

Ah, mandatory reference to Serial Experiments Lain here.
I believe -and I hope- we're heading to a world where we'll create a second reality -the Internet/virtual world- and to acces it, we'll have to integrate ourselves with computers to form suitable interfaces. From OP's viewpoint, it seemed like a technologically-advanced future involved either AIs (which, from my opinion as a programmer jr it's technically impossible because of the same programming logic which all computer science is built on) or a virtual world. I think a combination of being able to inhabitate both worlds -real/virtual- it's the only thing that seems pausible for now; it's not as if your entire conciousness could be uploaded to a machine because there would be a serious compatibility problem... but instead, you'd be using the machine as an interface to connect to an inter-net in a greater sensory experience [using all senses].

SEL practically was about that kind of connection. In the series, the characters often cannot tell real world/virtual world apart, to the point that shooting a person in a Quake-like FPS online meant the player's death in real life. We can also see the main character, Lain, who's the 'goddess' and 'conciousness' of the Wired [Internet] still in her human body trying to get a realer experience while browsing the Wired (in the series, there's a special processor which allows the user to connect its conscience to the Wired, and it's the key to Lain's transition from the human world to the virtual realm).


If you don't mind as I digress,

Mankind is the worst virus on this planet and we are winning at destroying our host.

I've been entertaining the idea that maybe we're here to destroy everything. And create something entirely different from it.