The Reality of College

reply to post by notreallyalive


If it were me, I probably wouldn't want to work for someone who's more concerned about "to's, too's and two's" than my ability to weld the crack of dawn. That's just me though. I'm not a welder - it may be very important for that career field.

But, I can definitely say the same for a employer more concerned about my ability to tell a parasite and from a virus when he should be more concerned if I can handle CSS scripting or whether my knowledge of InDesign, PhotoShop and Illustrator are adequate for the job.

Chances are that an employer that's more concerned about that isn't going to be easy to get along with in the workplace.

[edit on 6-10-2009 by tyranny22]

reply to post by fordrew


Not mandatory? Wish I had known that. Anyway, I still wouldn't attend that university. If I do ever go to college, it will be a small community college where they can't afford to waste $100,000 on bullsh!t like that.

KRS-ONE has likened a degree to a receipt, and I think there is a lot of truth in that. I stopped going to college because I stumbled into a pretty good career while working my way through school and I've seen first hand that companies generally value experience over a degree.

However, if you are pursuing a technical career (ie. engineering, medicine, etc.), it is essential to complete your degree. Also, in an entry-level situation, where you do not have any experience, a degree will get you in over a non-graduate.

Also, remember that college is not only a time to learn from books and professors but a time to learn a little more about life. You have the advantage of beginning to experience the so-called real world without many of the repercussions. Experience things, because once you get your receipt, it's all downhill! Not really, but responsibility will begin to play a huge part of your life, have fun while you still can.

For the religious amongst us, Thomas Merton wrote an essay on what Universities had become, and that was in his day.

I recommend anyone who is interested in either Catholicism or issues with Universities today read up on that essay.

The thing that bugs me about college is the reputation that precedes it.

So many people I know hate their jobs or don't make enough money or both. So they enroll in college and spend thousands to "fix" their situation. As if "attending college" is a sure way to solve your problem. It is not. The education and skill are definitely useful but it is the WILL that is everything.

I never attended college but I'm a professional graphic designer for a major NYC museum. I snagged copies of the major graphics programs and basically just sat down and figured them out. When I couldn't figure out something I googled it.

I got the job because I accumulated a badass portfolio and proved to the company I had the real world experience, basically I busted my butt to get here. But I am debt free, well paid and actually like my job which is more that I can say for the vast majority of my friends with college degrees.

[edit on 6-10-2009 by The Savage Khan]

Originally posted by TreadUpon
Here's a nice bit of "college reality" for you...

When my folks went to college a four year degree cost about $24k. When they graduated they were just about gauranteed a $24k salary.

When I went to school a semester cost $24k (Samford University, 1990). Nobody could gaurantee any job, entry level was still $24 per year, most majors weren't supported by any industry, etc...

Now the "education" system fails everybody. The economics didn't add up and I left without a degree. Now I'm doing the hiring and prefer folks that havent been indoctrinated. The people that have degrees think I owe them something. The people that have busted their humps want the opportunity, and act like it.

I actually have a similar experience. I went to college, couldn't afford it, then had to leave when I was close to graduating. Now I have a really nice job because I was indoctrinated in my family with the mentality that "Nothing is for free, if you want to get somewhere you have to work hard" and oh the irony with the co-workers. Some of them have an attitude problem, thinking they're owed something because they have a degree. Some even snub their salary, saying it isn't enough to live in the fancy neighborhood they live in now. Me? I'm quite happy with the salary and is actually more than what I actually NEED (not to be confused with want)

Now what's my situation after working there for less than a year? The employees with the degrees are not considered trustworthy. I'm treated as if I were the manager of my department, even people from the engineering department come to me first (sometimes bypassing my own supervisors) to make sure things are ready before we take care of an event. In fact, upper management is waiting for the year to end so they can actually promote me because they WANT me to be promoted to manager. My department director has said not only that she's impressed with my work, but also that she honestly can't see anyone else actually taking charge other than me, why? Because I actually CARE about my job and what I do. Something the workers with the degrees don't seem to care about. I wanted to be given a chance to prove that I deserved to work there and I did with flying colors.

There's something to be said about someone who wants to prove his worth, versus someone who thinks he is owed something and is simply sitting there waiting for someone to give them a reward they haven't earned. Yeah, a degree is nice, good job, but what are you exactly going to bring to the table when you start working? One thing my grandmother (a TEACHER) said to me often was "A degree is only worth the piece of paper it's written on. It's what you DO with what you learn that matters" My dad (ANOTHER teacher) would often say something similar as well "A degree is worth about as much as the piece of toilet paper you use to wipe your butt. What matters is what you do with your knowledge" Well I learned alright, even though I never actually got my degree, it was when I did my independent projects OUTSIDE of a college environment where I learned the most and worked the most, why? Because I was in constant competition to win and earn my keep. To show off that indeed I belonged where I wanted to be. Not earn a letter grade.

Ultimately, its good there are plenty of people that dont want to goto college for one reason or another.

Someone needs to dig ditches after all.

reply to post by For(Home)Country


This is why I opened up the thread with "speaking from my personal experiences". And you may write your own thread. I'm not saying your opinion is invalid or untrue.

For me it is like this...

College is a great experience for all and more of the reasons already mentioned. It really opens your mind and allows you to take that "step" into adulthood and professionalism. Is it right for everyone? NO, it certainly isn't. As some have said, technical schools are a better bet for some, a career with nothing but a high school diploma or GED may be a better choice for some. But, for others college is the ONLY way to go, take me for example, I am majoring in Cosmology--That means I have to go college, no technical school, no "straight to career" type of job. It is like that for many professional careers, like medicine as another example, I surely don' care if a doctor can dig a ditch or has motivation to work a 9-5, but I do care if he/she went through the 8 plus years of school and know which artery to fix if needed.

So like I said, higher education depends on the job you want. Some jobs however, are such that you MUST have a college degree, and for good reason. I mean I don't want to be learning from a professor who just "read a lot about physics and researches online a lot". I say do whatever works for you, if you don't like it don't go anymore; If it does not fit your desired job go to a tech school. I do agree with another poster that the title of this thread "The Reality of College" is somewhat inferred that it is truth, but whatever, I think there is a lot of good advice in this thread none-the-less.

reply to post by prestonposthuma


I dropped out of college after three years because all I saw was myself getting deeper in debt and not really learning anything of substance. Inspite of the rhetoric, "a person need a degree to succeed in life", I discovered that to not be the truth in many cases, however in some professions a degree is of utmost importance.

I found college to be a money making racket, you had to take alot of unnecessary courses in order to graduate. American Literature, Chemistry, and Physics are great examples. These subjects are wonderful if that's your interest or is needed in your career but a requirement for everybody is ludicrous to say the least. Trust me when I say having took those courses they didn't broaden my horizons nor would I consider them to be a necessity for my chosen career path.

By forcing students to take courses that have no impact whatsoever on their chosen career paths is a financial and chronological waste. I attended two years at a medium size university then went on to a community college until I discovered a degree was not required to work in my chosen profession. As for my professors I suppose I'm one of the lucky ones because I've always had easygoing educators who would meet with students in between classes.

What's ironic is how many of my friends who graduated had the darnest of time finding employment and when they did it wasn't in their field of study.Why? College is what I term a double insulator it prevented students from scrutinizing their potential career paths to make sure those careers were worth pursuing. One of my friends went to school for a profession she worked in for six months and decided she would rather die than to continue in that profession.

The fact is college is not for everybody and those who opt to attend shouldn't be required to take courses that bears no weight in their chosen fields of work.

reply to post by prestonposthuma


I appreciate the OP.

What has college education done for us.

Made smarter bankers to steal from the fruits of our labors.
Made smarter politicians to steal from the fruits of our labors.
Made smarter business men to steal from the fruits of our labors.
Made smarter scientists to steal the balance of nature.

History has proven that the less college you have, the more useful
in real life you are likely to be.

College teaches people how to live off the backs of the labor force.

College teaches people how to look down their noses at the "useless eaters"

Next, they'll want to be spanking you at some frat party. Don't let em.

Yeah sometimes I get the feeling like most of what I'm learning won't help me. I learn some practical things yes, but most things will be irrelevant in a year's time.

Originally posted by prestonposthuma
Yeah sometimes I get the feeling like most of what I'm learning won't help me. I learn some practical things yes, but most things will be irrelevant in a year's time.

Well, some of us in the "getting older" generation are pinning some of our hopes that the younger generation such as yourself wake up to the facts and see it for what it is.

Look what higher education has done to our country.

It's created a bunch of greedy, self serving parasites.

An "educated" corrupt individual is much more dangerous than a
corrupt plumber (no offense to plumbers, because their job is important)

Madoff comes to mind.

Anyone that says college is just a receipt or anything along those lines is not using their full brain potential. Sure, if you go to college, take the most generalized approach to graduation, and then expect to enter the working world, anywhere making 40k+ a year then of course it might as well be a receipt.
I have decided to focus on world studies, international institutions and globalization with a focus in latin america with minors in spanish and criminal justice. There is nowhere on Earth other than the university setting that I could acquire the amount of applicable knowledge that I have in the amount of time it has taken. I find most people who really hate on college are those that did not go or did not graduate. I am not saying that it should be a necessity to being successful in life, and it is not, not by a million miles. I made about 50-60k a year by the time I decided to go back to school at 25 (earlier this year). However, 70-80 hour weeks of hard ass labor and b-s book keeping took their toll. I decided that I wanted to try to make a positive impact on this world, to affect policies, world views and help humanity in general. College has provided me the opportunity to do so, and has equipped me with teachers, advisors, peers and outside contacts to excel in whatever I do in this field.


*edit

Quit bashing on education. None of you jack asses have a better plan to educate our youth as a whole. Sure its flawed, wtf isn't? Without the educational system of america (primary and secondary) I would be an ignorant human being, and I would not be able to understand the world as it is, let alone come on sites like ATS and discuss the things we discuss. If you think the educational system brainwashes people, then you are naive. Furthermore, you have to be pretty brain dead to begin with to let the educational system distort or formulate views for you.


[edit on 6-10-2009 by VirginiaGreen]

[edit on 6-10-2009 by VirginiaGreen]

I'll read through the thread in a bit, but I wanted to post a reply to the OP first.

1. Redundant: My experience was anything but redundant. Of course you have your certain core requirements (college is a liberal, meaning broad-based, education), but even in those core requirements I had a broad selection of classes and topics to choose from.

2. I agree to a point about the snobbery, although it wasn't my experience that all of them were like that. Tenured professor positions are ridiculously competitive and considered a holy grail for doctoral students. Those that are able to achieve them in such a highly educated, highly coveted field will probably have a certain sense of self-importance because they worked so hard for so many years to achieve the title.

3. Sheep: It's true that most people fall into either the "party" or "study" category, but so what? As far as real diversity goes, my campus had 40,000 students and I was blown away by the diversity. Who really cares if you like partying and studying? I did my share of both...it's what college is about. Celebrating the end of childhood and initiation into the world of being an adult.

4. Sports: true for many schools, but their Greek and Athletic life is well known to anyone before they go there. There are just as many (probably many more) colleges that focus more on learning than sports. They are typically the smaller, more specialized schools. My school was one of the largest in Texas and I'd say 75% of the campus could have cared less about sports, so it's all about where you pick to attend.

5. The professors either choose or write their own text books, so as far as history goes it's something they believe in. Although if you think you know it well, many universities offer tests to students to automatically receive credit for basic classes they've mastered.

6. Information does move at a rapid pace, but it's not all outdated within a couple years. Basic Mathematics, History, Literature, etc. are all pretty stable. Business strategies have been pretty stable, logistics, etc. IT, Computer Sciences, etc. are the ones that constantly need updating.


College is a liberal education. It isn't as perfect as having your own group of personal professors, but it's much better than not going to college, especially if you're not sure exactly what to do. My advice would be to finish your core classes and concentrate on majors and electives you find interesting, but keep your eye on the ultimate goal of obtaining the career that you want.

Most companies, both large and small, want individuals with degrees as their mid to upper level employees. It shows the employer that you have the dedication to complete a program that requires hard work and patience. Also, as time has progressed, the number of college graduates has increased dramatically.

In an economy like this, do you really want to put yourself at a disadvantage by not going to school? Would an employer realistically hire you out of 200 other applicants when you don't have a degree and they do?

george lucas had the same opinion, so he funded something called edutopia. here's his explanation of why he did it. (see video on link)
www.edutopia.org...
his focus was on teaching via talents and imagination, allowing the rest of the rules to naturally follow.

Public education is the foundation of our democracy -- the stepping-stones for our youth to reach their full potential. My own experience in public school was quite frustrating. I was often bored. Occasionally, I had a teacher who engaged my curiosity and motivated me to learn. Those were the teachers I really loved. I wondered, "Why can't school be engaging all of the time?" As a father, I've felt the imperative to transform schooling even more urgently.

Traditional education can be extremely isolating -- the curriculum is often abstract and not relevant to real life, teachers and students don't usually connect with resources and experts outside of the classroom, and many schools operate as if they were separate from their communities.

www.edutopia.org...



[edit on 6-10-2009 by undo]

Originally posted by Avenginggecko


3. Sheep: It's true that most people fall into either the "party" or "study" category, but so what? As far as real diversity goes, my campus had 40,000 students and I was blown away by the diversity. Who really cares if you like partying and studying? I did my share of both...it's what college is about. Celebrating the end of childhood and initiation into the world of being an adult.

Most companies, both large and small, want individuals with degrees as their mid to upper level employees. It shows the employer that you have the dedication to complete a program that requires hard work and patience. Also, as time has progressed, the number of college graduates has increased dramatically.

on point 3.) Really? Going to college to get plastered, smoke pot and party all day is considered part of entering adulthood? Funny, to me it was being able to work hard and move out of my house so I didn't have to rely on mommy and daddy to take care of myself OR my education. It was also being responsible enough that I would be able to pay for my education out of my OWN pocket, and again, not out of mommy and daddy's but again, that's me.

On your second point about companies, I say you are full of it simply due to my own experience. As I stated, even though I don't have a degree at my current entry level job. Not only does upper management at my work rely and trust me to take charge of my position and my department, but they are eagerly waiting for my one year deadline to pass so they can promote me. In the meantime, they actually want me to start training with supervisors so that way I will be more prepared when the position is offered. In other words? I'm being asked to do more than just the regular entry level employees. The other workers in my department that have degrees? Well, they're not considered to be as trustworthy.

A degree is worthless if you don't know how to use the knowledge you attained. I didn't finish college, but that didn't mean I didn't know how to use what I learned, and worked hard like my parents always said. I could use another example, but out of respect for the person involved, I won't mention it. If you asked me, I'd sooner hire someone with first hand experience and loves his job/art/task/etc. over someone who went to college "just to get my degree" Why? Those people are usually the ones that want to prove that they can do what they say they do, even without a "proper" education. This young and new generation of college kids however, somehow think they're better than the rest and somehow feel they should get more than they deserve, without proving how good they are.

Originally posted by VirginiaGreen

I have decided to focus on world studies, international institutions and globalization with a focus in latin america with minors in spanish and criminal justice. There is nowhere on Earth other than the university setting that I could acquire the amount of applicable knowledge that I have in the amount of time it has taken.
[edit on 6-10-2009 by VirginiaGreen]

[edit on 6-10-2009 by VirginiaGreen]

Want to learn?

Try the internet. It's free (almost) and you get the advantage of different points of view.

Has globalization gone too far?

Making globalization work

Libraries work too.

At least you don't get stuck with some jackass like Ward Churchill telling you how the world should run.

If you want to learn, the info is available, without all the brainwashing and debt.

In the meantime, you can hold down a job, and maybe learn a trade that will come in handy in the future.

Want to learn Spanish? Spend a year in Spain. I speak fluent Spanish after two years there.

Want to learn about criminal justice? Spend a week or two in jail. The prisoners will teach you more about the justice system than any course.

There is no substitute for experience. Every job, profession, etc should be taught through OJT, in my opinion.

edited to fix grammar issues, as the "higher educated" will pick one apart on technical issues and ignore the context of the post.

[edit on 6-10-2009 by endtimesrhere]

Originally posted by prestonposthuma


5. Material. I currently have a history class and all the material I'm taught is the history that is published in textbooks. Why are we not taught the history that really happened? Not the history of the few who have the power to write it.

6. Relevance. Statistics show that half of what you learn in your first year is outdated information by your third year. What true use is that? Another HUGE point is why take the range of classes that are required? If you are majoring in computer engineering, you're required to take an english composition course. What true use is that?

So, if anyone here is wishing they had gone to college, or if anyone is thinking about it, take this into consideration. Is it worth the time? Is my heart in it? Do I truly want to do it? While yes, I am learning about a broad range of topics, will these do me any good in the real world?

First off..
Mainstream historians can't seem to agree themselves about the current AND widely accepted interpretations of historical records. They don't seem to be able to get THEIR OWN facts straight for issues that are widely documented and or accepted for starters. I mean if you can't seem to collectively agree on what IS THERE how reasonable it looks to expect answers for things that might be or not be there?

Second off..
You are witnessing evidence of the dumping down of the education, BUT DON'T LET THIS FOOL YOU!
You get out from it only what you put in. It is just a bit harder now that's all.
YOU CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
If history is your favorite subject (from what I suspect) by all means go for it. Do not forget there is the internet too and all the available information and more is out there. Your college material is the tools you need to start researching stuff, not mainly discovering them. You'll have to do the discovering for yourself. Learn the logical tricks and put whatever knowledge you receive through the test with these tools. Don't just expect new kind of knowledge to be there for you to accumulate, it won't happen. This is YOUR part, that's why I urged to be cautious to not be fooled.

[edit on 6-10-2009 by spacebot]

Although there are faults in our system, it seems that people with, or without an education can succeed by persistence.

If someone is determined to succeed college or not it will happen.

What college does for most is give them tools to communicate at a higher level, but this does not guarantee success or a job.

Test's in college are not the same as tests in the business world, and life.



[edit on 6-10-2009 by Realtruth]