The demise of the dollar

Everyones needs to understand something. No matter what happens in the next year, our economy is having a once in a lifetime , fundamental change. When everything shakes out, nothing will ever be the same as it was. it has taken years of overspending by both groups that control our government. Get ready for a change, it's coming.

Next thing to understand. We don't really have anybody in Washington with power , looking out for Americans. The powers that be run both parties. The elites control it all. Over the years, Americans traded an endless slate of government entitlements in exchange for giving up more and more personal freedoms. Guess what, our freedoms are very close to being gone. As citizens, we are now controlled by a government who has an agenda that isn't citizen friendly. We are all basically screwed. This economic catastrophe we are about to enter, has been engineered to happen for a long time. Just look at the money trail, and you'll see who has benefitted. it certainly isn't Americans.

For my entire life, I have always believed that one could pull himself up by his own bootstraps, and make a go at being sucessfull by his own efforts. Now, not only has our government taken away the ability to succeed, they stole my boot straps. We have been ruined, and our way of life forever changed by a group of thieves who work for the real power in our country. All the low life shenannigans that BOTH parties pull, have gotten us to where we are today. remember, it's both parties that have done this to us. They just take turns screwing us with different techniques, but it all ammounts to the same thing. We're screwed. The worst thing that I have realized, is that there's relatively little I can do to change things. we are doomed to sit by and watch it happen. We can protest, we can vote differently, we can let our reps know what we think, but nothing will change. We are playing against a stacked deck. Why do you think nothing ever changes???

I won't argue with people about what I think is going to happen. No one is going to change their mind anyway. But within the next 6 months, we will all be startled by the life changing events that are going to come about, none of which is good. a change might come out of this, but much pain has to be endured before the change comes. Get ready to watch your life savings fly out the window, through no fault of yourself. You can make up your own mind about what to do, but your choices are limited.
Good luck, your're going to need it.

The dollar has been in the news all day long. We have record gold prices. And the Independents story about secret meeting between oil producers in the Middle East, Russia, and importers China, France and Japan is currently being denied. But they don't call these things secret meetings for no reason. I think those of us worried about the dollar and the issue of the effect of out of control debt has seen these moves coming for a while, and evidence has been mounting heavily for these moves. What does this mean to you? Cost of living is about to skyrocket.

But it's not as though red flags and warning have not been going up. This is not one of those "No one could have foreseen this" scenarios. People much better versed in these trends than I have been warning about this for quite some time. The Independent article shared with all of you last night is just the first time the voices of the concerned have been heard, reality is starting to sink in for these people:

The demise of the dollar | The Independent

In the most profound financial change in recent Middle East history, Gulf Arabs are planning – along with China, Russia, Japan and France – to end dollar dealings for oil, moving instead to a basket of currencies including the Japanese yen and Chinese yuan, the euro, gold and a new, unified currency planned for nations in the Gulf Co-operation Council, including Saudi Arabia, Abu Dhabi, Kuwait and Qatar.

This action explains the sudden rise of Gold to record levels in such a short period of time. The Federal Reserve printing press bailout program, and our governments refusal for over 5 decades to live within it's means is, has contributed to this. 40 years ago the first warnings rang out about the dangers of government control of interest rates through the FED, back then this was only a long term worry, well we've come to the end of that long term rope.






[edit on 6-10-2009 by projectvxn]

Where there is smoke, there is fire.

Most everything that has came out over the last couple of years is denied, then the truth comes forward anyways.

They are denying it now, and they are just full of BS and giving flat out lies.
We better wake up and fight back or suffer.

I think the Gold is a scam.

I think they will dump the dollar.

Then flood the market with gold. China and others have bought up a bunch of it. IMF to dump it, etc.

This will be a one two punch to the USA.

In the meanwhile, we keep giving money all over the world and buying all their products.

You want to kick the in the gut, stop buying their crap.
Only buy crap made in the USA.
It's hard, because we don't make much anymore, but most things you can find.

Screw them! fight back!

If we started dumping gold and bought silver, many countries would get screwed right now.

reply to post by Finalized


what if this is supposed to happen? other countries can control oil and the u.s can finally start releasing some of that alien technology they have been perfecting for years, and start charging us for that. oil is so last year ayway

Originally posted by projectvxn
The dollar has been in the news all day long. We have record gold prices. And the Independents story about secret meeting between oil producers in the Middle East, Russia, and importers China, France and Japan is currently being denied. But they don't call these things secret meetings for no reason. I think those of us worried about the dollar and the issue of the effect of out of control debt has seen these moves coming for a while, and evidence has been mounting heavily for these moves. What does this mean to you? Cost of living is about to skyrocket.

But it's not as though red flags and warning have not been going up. This is not one of those "No one could have foreseen this" scenarios. People much better versed in these trends than I have been warning about this for quite some time. The Independent article shared with all of you last night is just the first time the voices of the concerned have been heard, reality is starting to sink in for these people:

The demise of the dollar | The Independent

In the most profound financial change in recent Middle East history, Gulf Arabs are planning – along with China, Russia, Japan and France – to end dollar dealings for oil, moving instead to a basket of currencies including the Japanese yen and Chinese yuan, the euro, gold and a new, unified currency planned for nations in the Gulf Co-operation Council, including Saudi Arabia, Abu Dhabi, Kuwait and Qatar.

This action explains the sudden rise of Gold to record levels in such a short period of time. The Federal Reserve printing press bailout program, and our governments refusal for over 5 decades to live within it's means is, has contributed to this. 40 years ago the first warnings rang out about the dangers of government control of interest rates through the FED, back then this was only a long term worry, well we've come to the end of that long term rope.






[edit on 6-10-2009 by projectvxn]

I totally agree with you. They are denying it because they have too. If they said the story coming out of the meeting was true, there would be a stampede out of the dollar one minute after saying yes. Here is what should be asked, was there a secret meeting between these states and if so about what. The only thing that they have in common is tons of dollars and dollar denominated assets and paper. They wouldn't have a secret meeting to proclaim their faith for the dollar. No this was a secret meeting to make a basket of currencies and commodities in order to make sure each one doesn't lose money and two that they won't be part of the dollar in any transaction.

The world is making shadow deals and promises out of light of the public and the US for one purpose. And that is to come out in due time and pronounce that there is a new basket of currencies that will be used for international settlements and oil pricing. Once this comes out, our markets in the US upchucks big time. For one, who will buy Treasuries or muni's or corporate bonds unless they are priced in this new basket. Two, if we are to sell bonds in the new basket of currencies, we would have to use ever depreciating dollars to buy the new basket of currencies in order to support the bonds which in turn causes inflation because there is no way to hid it from the public in the us. Three what about the dollar denominated bonds that many will hold, will we make good on those bonds or will we declare Force majeure. If we declare this then it will be impossible to trade with or access other nations banking systems because we will be a debtor that had defaulted, an IMF case to be precise.

The only way to get out of this is to sell to the buyers of our debt anything and everything that they might want, including parts of the US (you may think this won't happen, it could). And if not, then they will just cut us out and we will be a large third world nation with nukes and arms, the problem is that we won't be able to pay our troops and keep our people fed well unless we attack somebody or force our will against somebody (CANADA). There is another way though, and that is to wring it out of all of us americans. There's a reason why bush wanted that provision to declare martial law. Because he and almost all politicians know that a large number of americans through our indoctrination of hatred and intolerance and the hatred of intelligence are disturbed. And people that have been told for decades that they are exceptional and it's their birth right for this or that etc. etc., can't take seeing that delusional propaganda being ripped from in front of them to see the real world. They will go insane with rage and hatred to anybody that their psychosis tells them destroyed their pensions or life savings. Maybe also that is the reason for those REX camps that are placed all over the US. To get the trouble makers out of sight and out of mind.

They tend to change the laws to allow debtors prison for us and also confiscation in order to keep the govt. running and also to pay international settlements. Why go to war when you can fleece the docile and scared sheep that took you decades to husbandry.

If the dollar does dramatically fall, the Chinese would be affected at least as much as we are -- they'd be sitting on a huge pile of paper money not worth much.

Look, the US can and will be a self-sufficient country once again. As long as agriculture works, everybody (or most everybody) will be fed. Manufacturing will be restarted, and this country still have tons a lot of know-how. There will be less convenience in our lives, but we'll make it.

Originally posted by eddiemaiden_80
I am not very clued up with how the money system works. Would someone be kind enough to explain what possible outcomes could happen (if the dollar is dropped by said nations) to other countries than the U.S. I live in the UK. How/would this effect us over here.

If the nations decide to discontinue the dollar as a reserve currency, the USA will stop supplying the world with USD to conduct international trade. That means it will curtail significantly the issuance of US Treasuries, a process used to put the USD into the worldwide circulation. The USA immediately defaults on every debt obligation and no one would be able to peep about it, because the default can be easily justified as a fee for long time services rendered. There is no mark on the bills that tells apart USD issued for the world and the one issued for the country. That means you always run a risk of a domestic inflation of currency, depending on the rate liquidity of US bonds in the secondary market.

So by defaulting, the USA gives the world a final bill to pay for services rendered.

[edit on 10/6/2009 by stander]

Here's a youtube link to BBC interviewing Robert Fisk over his article.

www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by j2000
Where there is smoke, there is fire.

Most everything that has came out over the last couple of years is denied, then the truth comes forward anyways.

They are denying it now, and they are just full of BS and giving flat out lies.
We better wake up and fight back or suffer.

The PTB always try to come up with some elaborate explanation of the failing economy, and all the associated reasons. but in the end, the explanation is as simple as the explanation from j2000. where there's smoke, there's fire.

Things are so bad, and getting worse, that even the cleverest crooked politician can't cover the pile of stinking hockey they have created. No matter how they try to glooss over the facts, things have gone too far to cover up the truth.

We are getting the change that was promised, although certainly not what Obama supporters expected. Don't worry Obama worshipers, bush was just as guilty as everyone else for our country's plight. In reality, our problems have been getting worse for years, so there is plenty of blame to go around.

Our present plight is neither a republican, or a democrat problem It is an economic problem. All our leadership plays for one team, and that is the elitist, the PTB, or whatever you prefer to call them. When you understand and accept this concept, things become so much clearer. it explains why our officials keep doing things that even a moron knows is wrong, and they do it anyway. The other side of the issue does a little "harump a dump", and mutters a little false indignation, and things proceed as planned. That way, one side or the other can always say, "we didn't support that", and blame whatever happens to the other side.

Remember, in reality, there is no "other" side. They all play for the same team. There are a few lone wolves that are a small voice in the darkness, but the larger wolf pack always chases them off.

And yes, if there wasn't enough misery to go around, inflation is about to be a killer issue. Many factors contribute to this condition. Some of which are, printing presses running wild printing money in a deliberate attempt to de-value the dollar. Also, fewer goods being produced by companies barely hanging on. The list goes on, but you get the point.

I have read that it will take years for the BRIC countries to switch reserve currencies. Wanna bet? They have known how bad things are for a long time. You can make a sure bet on that. The US has no strength to work from.

Guys, get ready for a terrible next few months, because when the real markets start to deal with this US dollar fiasco, things will happen very fast. I don't try to be a doom and gloomer, but things are what they are, and we will see very soon what will happen.

reply to post by Brad Watson


You know, I have no idea whether what you're saying is true or false in any way...

But I love it ... "ACACU" - great... maybe you meant "NACACU" - even better.

I've always been determined to smile as I fight - TQ V much for that!

Peace and Good Luck!

edit to add - That (1st) Star is from me, my friend, I would love to pay 2.90 NANACUs for a pint, rather than £2.90!!

I'd be doing Jim Carey impressions every time I paid for something!!!

[edit on 6-10-2009 by uberbone]

CNBC Reported
Secret Meeting To Plan Dollar's Demise?
www.cnbc.com...

"I’ve heard the story many times," explains strategic investor Dennis Gartman on Fast Money. "But what's different this time is that the story came out in the Independent, which is a pretty well respected newspaper."

Also, there's some new information in this report that makes it seem more credible. Specifically the fact that France and Japan were part of the discussion.

"Of course everybody denied being at the meeting, they have to," says Gartman. "But do I doubt for a moment that those talks have taken place somewhere? That leaders have talked behind curtains about the fact the world needs to diversify away from the dollar?"

Well it looks like it might be legit. Goes with the other articles we posted, and it supports the original article posted. Since it comes from CNBC, there must be some type of levity to the report.

Watch the clip found on the site.


[edit on 6-10-2009 by Pathos]

reply to post by buddhasystem

Look, the US can and will be a self-sufficient country once again. As long as agriculture works,

Unfortunately US Agriculture is about to be killed off too. The international Ag cartel wants our farmland and Obama and Congress are about to give it to them. There are at least six different bills in Congress designed to give our farmland to the international Cartels.

The most Orwellian federal food regulatory scheme ever proposed supported by 1942 Supreme Court decision HR 875, the "Food Safety Modernization Act of 2009", would outlaw unlicensed vegetable gardens, levy fines (not to exceed) $1 million per day and prison sentences (not to exceed five years) for those convicted of growing food for private, non-commercial consumption; Congress can regulate backyard veggie gardens because eating your own produce affects interstate commerce per Wickard v. Filburn


In reading the bill HR 875 I notice a very frighting thing. The Animal Welfare Act specifically excludes livestock and pets.  This bill does not list ANY EXCLUSIONS! On the contrary it specifically states

"..facility owned or operated by a person located in any State that processes food or a facility that holds, stores, or transports food or food ingredients."

Notice it does not say a person SELLING food, it says a person holds, stores, or transports food or food ingredients.


HR 875 also includes this.
"in any action to enforce the requirements of the food safety law, the connection with interstate commerce required for jurisdiction SHALL BE PRESUMED TO EXIST."

The fact you are growing veggies for just you and your friends does not exclude you because of the Supreme Court decision in Wickard v. Filburn. This means Americans will be forced to buy food from Ag business without any other option.

Everyone knows about Monsanto, so here is info on Cargill.

This is Cargill in action in the USA
Check out www.opednews.com...

Cargill enslaving kids and killing strikers  www.opednews.com...

I am nuts right? Here is one Lady's recent brush with the USDA
"Today a state Ag inspector and two county officials show up and scare the bee-jesus out of me. First they accuse me of selling products and milk, then explain that even "giving milk products away" is illegal in California... They explained it was even ILLEGAL to give it to my own children if they did not live under my roof! I can't even take a lasagna dish to my grown sons home without risk of being fined, arrested and or jailed! This is OUTRAGIOUS!!!!" Donna Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:37 pm   finance.groups.yahoo.com...


I see nothing that actually keeps the USDA/FDA out of your kitchen!


This is cut and paste directly from HR 875, nothing added

HR875
All food production facilities
The Administrator, in order to protect the public health, shall establish a national traceability system that enables the Administrator to retrieve the history, use, and location of an article of food through all stages of its production, processing, and distribution.

set good practice standards to protect the public and animal health and promote food safety;

conduct monitoring and surveillance of animals, plants, products, or the environment, as appropriate

require each food production facility to have a written food safety plan that describes the likely hazards and preventive controls implemented to address those hazards;

include, with respect to growing, harvesting, sorting, and storage operations, minimum standards related to fertilizer use, nutrients, hygiene, packaging, temperature controls, animal encroachment, and water

include, with respect to animals raised for food, minimum standards related to the animal's health, feed, and environment which bear on the safety of food for human consumption;


A food production facility shall permit the Administrator upon presentation of appropriate credentials and at reasonable times and in a reasonable manner, to have access to and ability to copy all records maintained by or on behalf of such food production establishment in any format (including paper or electronic) and at any location, that are necessary to assist the Administrator


I think they have the US citizen Check-mated. Heck we do not even own our industry any more!
This is a sampling of the industries with over 50% foreign ownership, according to Source Watch www.sourcewatch.org...

* Sound recording industries - 97%
* Commodity contracts dealing and brokerage - 79%
* Motion picture and sound recording industries - 75%
* Metal ore mining - 65%
* Wineries and distilleries - 64%
* Database, directory, Book and other publishers - 63%
* Cement, concrete, lime, and gypsum product - 62%
* Engine, turbine and power transmission equipment - 57%
* Rubber product - 53%
* Nonmetallic mineral product manufacturing - 53%
* Plastics and rubber products manufacturing - 52%
* Other insurance related activities - 51%
* Boiler, tank, and shipping container - 50%
* Glass and glass product - 48%
Coal mining – 48%


A real eye opener isn't it. But it gets worse. The Department of Homeland Security says 80% of our ports are operated by Foreigners and they are buying and running US bridges and toll roads. www.alabamaeagle.org...

Statistics showed in 1990,before WTO was ratified, Foreign ownership of U.S. assets amounted to 33% of U.S. GDP. By 2002 this had increased to over 70% of U.S. GDP. www.fame.org...

An analysis of the 2007 financial markets of 48 countries shows the world's finances are in the hands of a few mutual funds, banks, and corporations. This is the first report of global concentration of financial power ..www.insidescience.org...



I think we are well and truly screwed.

I don't really see this as any sort of "death knell" for anyone. Of course it will negatively impact us, probably. It might even do us serious damage. However...

We're not going to go down without a fight. If we don't have the correct currency to buy the oil, we'll take it away from other countries through violence. We're just too powerful, and too heavily addicted to oil, to meekly curl up and die if our currency becomes useless.

Also, everyone's economy is tied to ours (and vice versa). If we go down, the whole world enters into a massive depression the likes of which have never been seen. China isn't strong enough (yet) to survive our downfall. Russia isn't either. I'm not certain how Europe would fare, but they'd certainly feel it.

I think it's much more likely that, if oil becomes harder to get, we'll work to find other sources of energy. Technologies we previously found unacceptable - including nuclear energy - will become more common. I would *like* to see us switch over to clean, renewable energy, but... I'd like an end to war and world hunger, too. And a pony for Christmas. I don't see it happening any time soon.

I could imagine a scenario where Russia, China, and the US make a deal to divide up the oil-producing regions, taking them over completely. I wouldn't put it past our politicians.

reply to post by crimvelvet


As I said, from within and out. Excellent post

The US, once a strong self sufficient independent nation to a dependent nation.
Your politicians have followed their orders and sold you out. Welcome to the new age and global community. Once strong independent nations are a thing of the past, not just the US, but right around the globe. Any resistance will be met with harsh penalties. Global control is fast becoming a reality. Unfortunately most people will dismiss this as its seems just too unbelievable. But keep watching, keep in the back of your mind "new world order - global community" and see all the pieces miraculously fall into place, making it a reality.

The sad part about this is: after the SHTF the gov will blame some country for all the american problens and will start a war. And the people will support it with a smile because of decades of doctrine: we good, you evil

I don't think that it is the death blow for the dollar, but I was expecting this. I heard a year or 2 ago, how Iran wanted to shift the trading for oil from dollars to Euro's to try to hurt the US economically. So it looks like they are sealing the deal as it were on that one. I do believe that if the US can get back in the game with being a producing nation, we can get out of the problems that we are in, but it will take a lot of work, and common sense in DC. (Well lets just say the federal government needs to get off their collective posteriors and start promoting businesses, instead of killing it and stop trying to control all aspects of the private industry.)

Originally posted by chiron613
I don't really see this as any sort of "death knell" for anyone. Of course it will negatively impact us, probably. It might even do us serious damage. However...

We're not going to go down without a fight. If we don't have the correct currency to buy the oil, we'll take it away from other countries through violence. We're just too powerful, and too heavily addicted to oil, to meekly curl up and die if our currency becomes useless.

Also, everyone's economy is tied to ours (and vice versa). If we go down, the whole world enters into a massive depression the likes of which have never been seen. China isn't strong enough (yet) to survive our downfall. Russia isn't either. I'm not certain how Europe would fare, but they'd certainly feel it.

I think it's much more likely that, if oil becomes harder to get, we'll work to find other sources of energy. Technologies we previously found unacceptable - including nuclear energy - will become more common. I would *like* to see us switch over to clean, renewable energy, but... I'd like an end to war and world hunger, too. And a pony for Christmas. I don't see it happening any time soon.

I could imagine a scenario where Russia, China, and the US make a deal to divide up the oil-producing regions, taking them over completely. I wouldn't put it past our politicians.

Hard to believe I'm going to have to call you an optimist here. Shows how little it takes these days

But seriously, don't you think that people in Russia were probably saying the same exact words that you were but 20 years ago? They have been living in the midst of a terrible depression and surrounded by a black market for 2 decades. And they were once a very powerful violent nation. A large nation. A nation whose currency collapsed.

It can happen. We are in denial as a nation of how stupid we have really been. And how dependent we really are.

I was listening the other day to these realtors at a restaurant. They were complaining that a bunch of people from Turkey (our ally - and a great country - I have nothing against Turkey) came to California and bought houses in 2004 and 2005 with NO MONEY DOWN. They waited a year or so and took out equity loans of $100K because the houses had increased in value according to stats in their area. They then took the free $100K and "walked away" from the houses and moved back to Turkey and started restaurants and small businesses.

Ok so - 1) of course this is a very small group of Turks and for the record every Turk I have ever met has been delightful and honest.

2) where does the fault lie? Does all the fault lie with those that took the equity loans?

or

does some of it lie with the idiots that let anyone buy a house with no money down and then give them $100K on top of that?

I mean seriously I'm sure that this was repeated by people from countries all over the world in states all over the US.

And can we blame them? We've been exploiting other countries and living in luxury with pools and malls when billions of people live on pennies a day and a cup of grain.

You piss a lot of people off enough... bad stuff can eventually happen. It really can.

Look at the brite side of things! If this does happen, china will be stuck baiing out the world form now on

reply to post by ziggy1706


That's true. I've been feeling kinda sorry for Obama for months. He isn't doing as great a job as his fans had hoped. But then he was given such a bleak situation.

Now I suppose we may have to start feeling sorry for the next leader of the free world. Whoever and where ever he or she may be. And I think the term FREE is being used extremely loosely in both senses of the word.