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from the SPUSA Statement of Principles....
THE SOCIALIST PARTY strives to establish a radical democracy that places people's lives under their own control - a non-racist, classless, feminist socialist society... where working people own and control the means of production and distribution through democratically-controlled public agencies...
...We strive for democratic revolutions - radical and fundamental changes in the structure and quality of economic, political, and personal relations - to abolish the power now exercised by the few who control great wealth and the government...
Originally posted by CRB86
No mention of the state. The workers own the means of production. This is socialism. True socialism. The all-powerful state only appears in bastardisations of the socialist ethic.
Originally posted by ANOK
reply to post by I_am_Spartacus
As far as pay scale, as I said before that would be up to the workers themselves. If Joe Blogs guitar string company workers all decide they'd be happy with everyone getting an equal share form their collective work then that's what they'll do. If they decide certain workers deserve more pay then they'll do that. But, however the pay is distributed there will be more of it for the worker, who will benefit directly from his labour which will motivate harder work. Work harder for an hourly paid job and you just keep getting that same hourly wage.
Unless you are yourself a company owner right now, how could that be a bad system?
Originally posted by I_am_Spartacus
Again, your childish insults expose your "intelligence" You can argue definitions all day long, but "real" practiced socialism is as everyone else is trying to tell you. If "true" socailism was bastardized it was because those trying to implement it saw it wasn't going to work like they dreamed thus it needed to be forced on the people.
However you want to define it, it is still fantasy.
Originally posted by I_am_Spartacus
reply to post by CRB86
Socialism in any form means less freedom as the "collective" is more important than the individual. Socialism is for control freaks who want to remove all risk from life. Not something I want to strive for.
Wanting socialism has nothing to do with intelligence and is ignorant to make such a comment. Intelligent people make a better life without "socialism".
Charity should never be mandated, no matter how much you bleeding hearts believe so.
The United States is (was) the land of capitalism, freedom, and personal liberties. Take your "democratic" socialism somewhere else and "perfect" your own mediocre society there. Leave this country alone and go live in Sweden if you like it so much!!
businesses that are owned and democratically governed by their employees. They operate in numerous industries, including childcare, commercial and residential cleaning, food service, healthcare, technology, consumer retail and services, manufacturing, wholesaling and many others. Some 300 worker co-ops throughout the U.S. provide their employees with both jobs and ownership—allowing them to directly benefit from the financial success of the business.
Kantega is a Norwegian software corporation founded in 2003 with headquarters in Oslo. Kantega primarily develops bespoke software based on Java and lightweight application frameworks, identity management and digital signature solutions based on PKI and Web Services technology.
Suma is the trading name of the Triangle Wholefoods Collective Ltd, a worker co-operative incorporated as an industrial and provident society. It was founded in Leeds in 1975 and is now based in Elland, West Yorkshire.
Its turnover for the year to 30 September 2007 is reported as £23,934,267, ranking it 51st among British co-operatives (see Co-operative review 2009, p. 5
Despite its trading volume, it is notable for being Britain's largest collectively-organised co-operative, in that it still avoids hierarchy and practices equal pay and job rotation despite employing over 100 people. It is also is the largest independent wholefood wholesaler in the United Kingdom.[1] The co-operative specializes in vegetarian, fairly traded, organic, ethical and natural products.
The John Lewis Partnership is a major United Kingdom worker co-operative retailer which operates John Lewis department stores, Waitrose supermarkets and the direct services company Greenbee. Unusually, it isn't a public limited company but that it is held on trust on behalf of all its employees (called partners) - who have a say in the running of the business and receive an annual profit distribution which is usually a significant addition to their annual salary. The company is the 3rd largest UK private company in the Sunday Times Top Track 100 for 2008. The chain's image is upmarket, and it appeals strongly to a middle class core of shoppers. Recently, however, John Lewis have broadened their marketing strategy towards all types of buyers, with the introduction of the 'Simply' range to John Lewis and the 'Essential' range to Waitrose, and the expansion of the business.
The partnership supplies the Ocado web supermarket, with Waitrose own-brand foods, and John Lewis own-brand non-food items.
The Indian Coffee House is a restaurant chain in India, run by a series of worker co-operative societies. It has strong presence across India. [1] There are nearly 400 coffee houses all over India, which are a part of the chain.
There are 13 co-operative societies in the country to run the coffee houses. These societies are governed by managing committees elected from the employees. There is also a federation of the co-operative societies as the national umbrella organisation to lead these societies."[3].
There is no way (in the real world) to evenly distribute "fairness" unless a central power controls production and distribution. Historically all countries who incorporate the socialist model have HUGE central governments controlling vast segments of production and society and have very often been led by a dictator type individual
Originally posted by I_am_Spartacus
reply to post by CRB86
BLAH BLah blah.....NEXT!
Originally posted by The Transhumanist
Not true. What about the anarcho-syndacalists in Spain in the 1930s.
en.wikipedia.org...
Originally posted by I_am_Spartacus
reply to post by ANOK
If "true" socialism was bastardized it was because those trying to implement it saw it wasn't going to work like they dreamed thus it needed to be centralized and forced on the people.
However you want to define it, it is still fantasy.
[edit on 14-10-2009 by I_am_Spartacus]