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"I know what I saw"---Full video Embed(REMOVED)

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posted on Oct, 7 2009 @ 11:06 PM
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reply to post by converge
 


Those are all solid points.

I would contend that the ridicule of the UFO community won't end until the specifically ridiculous behaviors of the community ease up a bit first, though.

Also, it's basically become standard practice to assume that the government shut down PBB because they wanted to make the subject of UFOs die down while they did their own secret research, but... maybe they concluded that the project wasn't worth the funding because their conclusions didn't find anything worthwhile?

I mean, these are all suppositions and assumptions, because neither of us are involved in the government (as far as you know, ha ha ha!), but I used to be involved in a military capacity, and one thing I realized was that the government was nothing if not ridiculously inefficient. Even if they HAD found something to keep secret, it wouldn't surprise me if they cut the funding and stopped researching anyway.

I think everyone gives the government way too much credit.




posted on Oct, 7 2009 @ 11:31 PM
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Originally posted by EsSeeEye
but... maybe they concluded that the project wasn't worth the funding because their conclusions didn't find anything worthwhile?


Unfortunately for them UFO sightings and cases didn't stop. Even if they in fact didn't find anything worthwhile, they are still pretty much pertinent, especially in cases like O'Hare or Rendlesham where there's obvious security and defense concerns.

It's unacceptable that no investigation or answers are given in a case such as O'Hare in a post-9/11 world. And it's an outrage that the FAA, the agency charged with the management and security of the airspace, has a public explicit policy of ignoring UFO reports by pilots and traffic controllers.



and one thing I realized was that the government was nothing if not ridiculously inefficient. Even if they HAD found something to keep secret, it wouldn't surprise me if they cut the funding and stopped researching anyway.
I think everyone gives the government way too much credit.


I tend to agree with you that the Government, in general, is rather inefficient. But so is a "regular" Army unit when compared to a Special Forces unit.

My point is that, even within large and often painfully bureaucratic organizations, you can have elite units tasked with a particular mission that they will accomplish with efficiency.

If the Government had knowledge regarding UFOs, or let's assume even more bombastic knowledge about them, it would certainly create an "elite unit" to deal with it outside some of the protocols of the "Government at large", just like Special Forces.

Yes the Government is incredibly bureaucratic, slow and inefficient, but let's not be intellectually dishonest in pretending that it would leave the UFO matter to be dealt by average Governmental employees and not hand-picked elite people.



posted on Oct, 7 2009 @ 11:44 PM
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One of the problems sceptics have is a simple one, but maybe not that obvious to them...

That is, people are unlikely to open up and tell you of their own personal experiences when all they hear is you using terms like , delusional, etc etc.

For every famous case, there are probably, another 5 that are its' equal or even more compelling.However, many people simply do not want the publicity that goes with it and don;t want to be labelled as a *whack job*..

You want to know how bad it is. A guy who, finally, reported an incident in 1980 to me, said about it. There were 4 of us and not one of us has discussed what we saw that night with each other, either in car on the way home, or since.

Can you imagine anything in your life that has happened to you, that you shared the experience with 3 others, that has had that sort of emotional fall out? How deep do your preconceptions of reality, have to be challenged, to clam up like that?

That's the sort of reaction soldiers have after seeing scenes of horrific brutality, to have that sort of primal psychological reflex, to seeing something wholly prosaic, in its' explanation, is at best, pretty unlikely i think most would agree?

The fact is, I have anecdotal evidence for one case and, official record now, for a second case in the winter of 1980 that were, pretty much, exactly the same sort of thing reported at Rendlesham. That is, a craft, seen in close up, landed, or close to the ground, in England, that wasn't a helicopter or an aircraft.

I should also say this. The second case reported to me was by a guy, I share an interest with, but otherwise, we are very different people. he said, words to the effect that,

"I just knew you were one person who wouldn't think i was barking mad"..

I loved Sci Fi as kid, but it was sighting i had myself at 13 that lit my interest in UFOs big time. I often wonder if the person i witnessed that UFO with ever talks about it. he went on to become a cook in the Royal navy and actually served on board, the Royal yacht Britannia.

What we saw that October night, was nothing too startling, but down through the years i have yet to find a prosaic explanation for it.

Over the years, i have been told this by a couple of ex military personnel from Britain. That, there are at least 2 incidents that have occurred that would *blow the lid the whole UFO thing*, if they were ever to be made public. When i asked did they mean it would show they were man made? I was met with a wry smile and the answer. "No"...

And yes, i asked what sort of thing they were talking about. Their replies were simply that.

"It was widely known in military circles that, the reason for a certain security alert were not Warsaw pact related"... "Put it this way both sides were on the hotline asking ...is that one of yours?"

The interesting thing is that. it was only a few years back that high ranking Officers from both sides admitted in public they, were at times, in contact with each other, at various times during the cold war, in an attempt to stop a nuclear exchange, kicking off by accident.

Yes, part of the reason for that was, radar mis identifying flock of birds, temperature inversions etc etc. However, it also included UFOs.

So the moral of the tale is this... The next time you are at a social gathering and the subject of UFOs comes up. If you immediately launch into a diatribe about how *ridiculous the notion is*, don't expect anyone to take you aside and say those immortal words... "I've never told anyone this before, but....."



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 12:44 AM
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I wouldn't call witnesses delusional, at least not with any kind of insult intended. Delusion is simply losing track of reality, and that can be as simple as smelling a pot and thinking it's chicken noodle soup that's cooking inside, when in reality it's minestrone. I think that very few witnesses lie about what they've claimed to see as well, though I think most of them misidentify what they see. It happens to people all the time. Happens to me, happens to you, happens to everyone.

Now, even when a person sees something incredible, say a triangle craft, and they're not misidentifying it, or unconsciously embellishing it to themselves (which is also a factor I'd call a form of delusion, again, not insulting), and the craft is really there, what makes it alien?

I don't think aliens have vanity plates saying IProbeU. So how do we know it's not man-made? How do we know it's not remotely piloted, or even has a person inside? There's nothing you can deduce by a sighting like that. Assumptions come into play after that.

Now, eventually a person will come to use their assumptions as their own form of evidence, because they conclude to themselves that the assumption is the only way that something could have happened. Unfortunately, assumptions aren't proof. Being skeptical only means separating personal feelings and emotions from factors in judging evidence or conclusions.

Do I think some witnesses are delusional? Yes. But I don't point and laugh at them like it's their fault they misidentified something, we all do it sometimes. That's why we show the evidence to others, to widen the area of scrutiny.



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 01:28 AM
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Originally posted by EsSeeEye
I wouldn't call witnesses delusional, at least not with any kind of insult intended


So when you call believers on here "blind believers", "doe-eyed believers". "immature" or "idiots", that's not an insult and it's not intended?

What is it then? You constantly say stuff like that to believers on here and you're actually saying the insult isn't intended? I call BS on that.

How do you know if what a believer says about some kind of sighting is true or not? The truth is that you don't know and you really don't care to know. You can tell about your attitude towards the believers on ATS with how you're constantly treating them.




posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 04:25 AM
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One of the best UFO documentary i ever saw. Yes and No nothing new, but a huge bunch of high caliber people involved and a BIG thx to James Fox.
And thx for a great upload.



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 05:09 AM
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Originally posted by EsSeeEye
Also, it's basically become standard practice to assume that the government shut down PBB because they wanted to make the subject of UFOs die down while they did their own secret research, but... maybe they concluded that the project wasn't worth the funding because their conclusions didn't find anything worthwhile?


EsSeeEye -have you ever actualy examined the 'explanations and conclusions' of certain UFO incidents by Project Bluebook?

USAF "force fit" debunks.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

If you actualy swallow these explanations hook,line and sinker then its possible you could be more of a 'blind beleiver' than anyone else on the boards.



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 11:26 AM
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After the October 4th premiere of James Fox documentary "I Know What I Saw", small debate about it has started on famous skeptical James Randi forum between users "Astrophotographer" and "Rramjet". User "Astrophotographer" is in fact astronomer Tim Printy, author of the UFO newsletter "SUNlite" (home.comcast.net...) and he is also active poster on Phil Plait's Bad Astronomy Forum (www.bautforum.com...).

Here are the Forum links (3 pages so far) of the documentary debate:

forums.randi.org...
forums.randi.org...
forums.randi.org...

Best Wishes



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 12:53 PM
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reply to post by uforadio
 


Rramjet deserves a round of applause for this little gem:


I have a strange feeling that you people are living in some sort of antirational twilight zone here. Some sort of “Randi cult” perhaps? It seems that no matter how much evidence is placed before you, you just implacably refuse to address that evidence.

forums.randi.org...



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 05:21 PM
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reply to post by karl 12
 


on the tehran incident - It is impossible to say with any certainty what this incident might represent. It is long ago and a proper investigation would be required, both interviewing all witnesses and testing the relevant equipment (hardly likely given that is mostly military) that showed abnormal function.

However, it is possible to comment on such cases in general.

Firstly, anomaly reports (including UFOs) are usually generated by a coincidence - several factors that rarely come together. So, for instance, some aspects of the incident, like unusual radar echoes, could be unrelated to the sighting itself. Also the various different objects reported may have been unrelated but given high significance by virtue of the main report.

Secondly, once an interpretation has been made at the time, people tend to look for confirming factors, rather than confounding ones. In other words, evidence that the event had a natural cause might have been overlooked or misinterpreted.

The differing descriptions of the main object point to some sort of misperception, perhaps of an unusual atmospheric event. We certainly do not know everything about our atmosphere.

It remains unexplained but i wouldn't be jumping to the conclusion of ET visitation.

[edit on 8-10-2009 by yeti101]



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 05:37 PM
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reply to post by yeti101
 


Oh if only that were the case... Only with Randi, it is nothing of the sort. The only thing that matters to Randi, is Randi and the truth can go hang itself

He was actually booed by all sides of the audience on his last appearance on TV in Britain. Then when he returned to the USA, he announced to his followers, "It had been a great success"... So reality and Randi seem to have parted company some time ago...



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 06:45 PM
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Originally posted by nightmare_david

Originally posted by EsSeeEye
I wouldn't call witnesses delusional, at least not with any kind of insult intended


So when you call believers on here "blind believers", "doe-eyed believers". "immature" or "idiots", that's not an insult and it's not intended?

What is it then? You constantly say stuff like that to believers on here and you're actually saying the insult isn't intended? I call BS on that.

How do you know if what a believer says about some kind of sighting is true or not? The truth is that you don't know and you really don't care to know. You can tell about your attitude towards the believers on ATS with how you're constantly treating them.



Pretty sure I've never used the words 'immature' or 'idiots', but feel free to prove me wrong. I use blind-believers and doe-eyed-believers in the same way I use the term when I speak about religious people who refuse to acknowledge facts, because the two are one and the same. Their hope that their belief is true overshadows the fact that they should look for evidence that helps their case, not get excited about every fake or misidentified youtube video that comes across the board.

I don't know if what a witness says is true, you're right. But very often a witness will claim that they know that what they saw was in fact, undoubtedly, with no other explanation an alien craft, and if it's not them it's someone in the comments. Unfortunately for all of us, there's never any evidence of that. Otherwise, sure, it was a UFO, because it's unidentified. The problem is that ruling out natural explanations seems to be the first item on the list as to what the objects could be, which makes it even easier to fall back to the "It's obviously aliens" idea.

Now, do I care to know? I absolutely do. Otherwise I would see it as a total waste of my time to come to this site and examine evidence. I don't expect to be treated fairly because I'm a skeptic, and I've got plenty of evidence to show skeptics being treated very poorly as well, so I don't personally feel the need to be anything but blunt.

I can sugarcoat my words, but it won't make aliens real. I can fall in line and gush over every picture, video, or anecdote that comes by, but that won't make aliens real either. What I'd like instead is the truth, and there's very little of it to be found here.



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 09:03 PM
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Blind and doe eyed believers. (seeing as how no one else is interested)

I thought the part of the video that had the country hunter with the rifle and scope who couldn't see the edges of the craft when he looked in all directions; added with the radar readings (not ghost images or anomalies that are here and then gone) that created a straight and continued trajectory corroborated his story quite nicely.

Plus, he's a hunter, most hunters I know have a discerning eye for detail; not that he's out hunting mile wide ufo crafts but still he did have presence of mind to make observations to the best of his abilities and resources. His scope gave him a close enough look that he could discern no man made construction evidence like welds or rivets or seams. Added to the fact that he picked up on specifically how the craft took off flat at a 45 degree angle instead of tilting up, all added in my opinion more veracity to his claims.

Finally, I keep coming back to the testimonials of so many witnesses from this case that confirm the sheer enormity of the craft. Everyone involved in the sightings from little kids to police and common sense country guys all tell of a dark craft that blocks out monstrous size quadrants of the sky. When B-2 bombers were offered as a possible explanation, on more than one occasion different witnesses indicate you could of landed an entire fleet on the craft they saw.

IMO This is one of the best ufo cases to date and has me leaning towards ET visitation. I know we all go out on limbs when we venture into "alien" territory discourse, but I like to think I have reflected over a long period of time, weighing credible testimonials, and other evidence. I really like the Bob White artifact case. I have read several analysis' that point to alloy of unknown origin. Plus he has been so forth coming on having science done on the artifact that he even offered it to Los Alamos lab almost rubbing it in their noses.

Phoenix lights remains unexplained, Rendlesham as well, Stephenville Texas, and a select few others, all unexplained. I think any skeptic who is looking or waiting for the gov. to come forth with a solution or explanation is delusional themselves. The longer any good case goes unexplained the more believable it is in my opinion. There has to be a cover up. I think there is an alarming "Core" story that is kept from us all; and it seems that all the things we argue and bounce back and forth boil down to semantics of a thin veneer/ firewall that keeps this disturbing core story insulated and protected.



posted on Oct, 8 2009 @ 09:47 PM
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Originally posted by EsSeeEye

Originally posted by nightmare_david

Originally posted by EsSeeEye
I wouldn't call witnesses delusional, at least not with any kind of insult intended


So when you call believers on here "blind believers", "doe-eyed believers". "immature" or "idiots", that's not an insult and it's not intended?

What is it then? You constantly say stuff like that to believers on here and you're actually saying the insult isn't intended? I call BS on that.

How do you know if what a believer says about some kind of sighting is true or not? The truth is that you don't know and you really don't care to know. You can tell about your attitude towards the believers on ATS with how you're constantly treating them.



Pretty sure I've never used the words 'immature' or 'idiots', but feel free to prove me wrong. I use blind-believers and doe-eyed-believers in the same way I use the term when I speak about religious people who refuse to acknowledge facts, because the two are one and the same. Their hope that their belief is true overshadows the fact that they should look for evidence that helps their case, not get excited about every fake or misidentified youtube video that comes across the board.

I don't know if what a witness says is true, you're right. But very often a witness will claim that they know that what they saw was in fact, undoubtedly, with no other explanation an alien craft, and if it's not them it's someone in the comments. Unfortunately for all of us, there's never any evidence of that. Otherwise, sure, it was a UFO, because it's unidentified. The problem is that ruling out natural explanations seems to be the first item on the list as to what the objects could be, which makes it even easier to fall back to the "It's obviously aliens" idea.

Now, do I care to know? I absolutely do. Otherwise I would see it as a total waste of my time to come to this site and examine evidence. I don't expect to be treated fairly because I'm a skeptic, and I've got plenty of evidence to show skeptics being treated very poorly as well, so I don't personally feel the need to be anything but blunt.

I can sugarcoat my words, but it won't make aliens real. I can fall in line and gush over every picture, video, or anecdote that comes by, but that won't make aliens real either. What I'd like instead is the truth, and there's very little of it to be found here.


if you cared to know the truth you wouldn't be so quick to keep insulting people



posted on Oct, 9 2009 @ 01:27 AM
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Man, I can't see the rest of the parts. Maybe I'll see if the videos are still on Youtube before they get taken off.

Anyway, some of this isn't really new, but some of it is, to me anyway. It is a nice big collection of sightings and material. I saw half of the the parts. I hope to be able to finish it off soon.

It would be a nice DVD to own.

Troy



posted on Oct, 9 2009 @ 02:17 AM
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Aww I watched the first 5 and planned to watch now but its gone

Oh well to be honest it was pretty much nothing new... they show that tape of the giant ship on tv and the guy bringing an alien costume to a press release... i thought it was funny!



posted on Oct, 10 2009 @ 02:40 AM
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The documentary is a waste of time to watch anyways. Any monkey with a brain knows the military keep secrets. What makes a UFO any different. Now maybe if the alien in the movie was real it would be worth watching. Unfortunately, the movie does not discuss aliens enough. Furthermore, apparently some aliens look like humans such as Val Valiant Thor. I'm not impressed with them if they look so much like us. I want to meet a raunchy stinking 6-foot tall alien grey. And then I want to try to provoke it into a fist fight. I'll probably let it beat me to death too because of how funny that would be. Probably a lot like fighting a retard. Sounds fun.



posted on Oct, 11 2009 @ 04:54 AM
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To: James Fox

Mr Fox, I thought that the whole point in making this documentary was to inform the public on the ufo, and alien encounters. I thought that you wanted the world to see this in hopes that everyone would "awake" and see the truth. Well than Mr Fox I ask you this, why did you pitch a fit and go to great lengths having this video removed all over the internet, including asking the history channel not to re-play it? Is it because you want to make more money off of it? Do you think it's fair to use all of the peoples stories and videos without giving them some kind of compensation, or are you just like all the rest of the money makers in this field like Steven Greer, Stanton Friedman, and all the other top ufo scammers.


To all the rest of the members and private people reading this I say this. There will be no disclosure on this subject due to the fact that even our goverments are not sure what it is people are seeing and video taping. Now many of these ufo peddlers want you to believe it's a great conspiracy, and they are pressuring the goverments to come clean, well they are liars, and frauds. I have worked at NASA for 16 years, and believe me when I tell you there is no evidence that earth is being visited by e.t's. I realize this may upset some of you true believers, however I would hope that you truly want the truth, and not just someone to keep feeding the fantasy's, and pure non-sense fairy tales of publicity seekers, money makers, and plain out scammers.
If, and when we have proof of something, even near what is being reported on these documentaries, believe me when I tell you that we would be the first to be on every news and prime time channel starting at the very moment of discovery. I am going to state right here in this forum, as I sit here in my office reading such truly foolishness all over this website, there is no aliens. no magic ufo's visiting this earth. If and when we ever make contact it will proably come from SETI, and it will be announced to the world once it is confirmed by the top scientist in this field. Most of the people who report seeing these things, especially the generals, sgt's, and so on never said anything until a certan few went to them and offered them compensation for any story they would be willing to tell.

Good evening, and God bless!



posted on Oct, 11 2009 @ 05:01 AM
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Hi
I watched all the videos and found them well done, I take my hat of to Jamie and his team for all the great investigation.He and his crew have put a lot of time into this and he is deserves all the credit we can give him WELL DONE!!

Ocker



posted on Oct, 15 2009 @ 12:50 PM
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pindz.blogspot.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink">pindz.blogspot.com... tary.html


I know what I saw.



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