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"I know what I saw"---Full video Embed(REMOVED)

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posted on Oct, 7 2009 @ 09:28 AM
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Wow so after watching part 1 i have found out the arizona phoneix lights still hasnt been solved and military people and the govner of arizona doesnt know what it is!!




posted on Oct, 7 2009 @ 09:39 AM
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reply to post by Haydn_17
 


flares which got caught up whilst cosmic rays were shining off dark matter.... creating an illusion which was realized due to additional photons from venus which in turn got mixed up with the flares' cum swamp gas.....



posted on Oct, 7 2009 @ 10:18 AM
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Originally posted by Dean Goldberry
IF, and it's the biggest "if" of all time, EVERY single UFO sighting is secret military craft, strictly of human design and operation, as Pathos so pathologically needs to believe, then they (the secret government/secret military) are the biggest reprehenisibly (by definition) sadistic creeps in the history of the universe in their confusing and alarming even those in the (known) military and government, let alone the civilian population. Of course such a blanket, absolutist opinion (of man-made only craft) without enough evidence is preposterous. Rather transparent desperation, Pathology, I mean Pathos.

Its kind of funny that many people share your perspective. I am not the one who is desperate here.

If you think about how I responded to everyone's comments, (within this thread and others), I did something that none of you believers can wrap your heads around. I looked at the eye witness testimonials, made an observation about their descriptions, and found a man made craft that matched their details.

What some of you guys did was dismiss the direct collation between witness descriptions and what we have in our military arsenal. Even though everything matches up exactly, people like you deny the collations.

I want to feel sorry for you, but for some reason I just cannot. Unidentified flying objects in orbit have more prevalence in being man made than alien made. Some of you are so hollow inside that you have no faith in mankind. None. That is sad.

When you show up with a video clip with bouncing lights, everyone with average cognitive abilities would have a hard time defining the object. I find it very disturbing that some of you jump to an alien made UFO theory. You disregard all other logic, and then conclude that "its has to be an alien made craft". Not only is that irrational thinking, but it is also reckless in nature.

Since the arrival of an alien species would be monumental, the believers need to come up with something more substantial.

I personally do believe aliens are traveling in and out of our solar system, but I am not arrogant enough to think humanity is that important. We are a cruel barbaric species, which lives a cold existence. Most of our religions place humanity at the center of the universe. We kill each other in the name of God.

At this point in our evolution, we are not worthy of having that type of knowledge. It is very arrogant for anyone to jump at lights in the sky, and then to conclude they are alien made. Very arrogant.

I have nothing riding on this issue. My life doesn't depend upon proving the existence of alien made UFOs. All nine parts of that video is bull. Why? It comes from individuals who have a limited understanding of human ingenuity. They have a very low perspective of what man is capable of doing.

When it comes to everyone's interpretation of the current evidence, none of those MUFON professionals can sit here and list every man made aircraft (and their capabilities). Since they cannot dismiss the innovative nature of man, MUFON and believers are creating a theory that is turning into a religion. That is irresponsible. That is dangerous.

Even though mankind is still primitive, there is one constant that everyone dismisses. We peruse complete control over the planet. We are very creative and innovative when it comes to the development of military weapons. Unlike the majority of the cultures on the planet, the United States took only 300 years to technologically evolve to this point. While other cultures remained in the Dark Ages for thousands of years, to this very day, the motivation to innovate the United States has been monumental.

Before anyone starts jumping onto the believer's bandwagon, consider what humanity has done within a short time period. Think about it.

Do not dismiss humanity.


[edit on 7-10-2009 by Pathos]



posted on Oct, 7 2009 @ 10:19 AM
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reply to post by mcrom901
 


Haha, i love how the guy just contradicted himself, in front of the public he makes fun of it and telling everyone its flares, but when the investagator asked him he goes "I dont know what it was, we still dont know"

What a idiot.



posted on Oct, 7 2009 @ 10:23 AM
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reply to post by Pathos
 


What some of you guys did was dismiss the direct collation between witness descriptions and what we have in our military arsenal. Even though everything matches up exactly, people like you deny the collations.

Name one ship in the human inventory that can accelerate past the speed of sound silently... and dont say the TR3-B, cos the only evidence for its' existence comes from Edgar Frouches book with Brad Steiger back in 1998 and he states, quite categorically, "It's back engineered alien technology"



posted on Oct, 7 2009 @ 10:25 AM
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Nice job putting together a lot of well known (to this crowd) stuff, but disappointing that there was little new. Or perhaps the greater disappointment is that what evidence is there in terms of photos and videos -- I trust that Fox would find the best stuff there -- hasn't changed, there's nothing really new.

Regarding the O'Hare sightings of a couple of years ago, I saw an interview w/Fox who said that audio recordings from the control tower confirming that they saw something, or at least that they were aware of sightings happening that day would be in the doc., but it's not. Was looking forward to this and more info. on O'Hare -- a particularly interesting case to me -- but alas...


[edit on 7-10-2009 by desklamp3]

[edit on 7-10-2009 by desklamp3]



posted on Oct, 7 2009 @ 10:32 AM
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reply to post by FireMoon
 

Your logic is flawed. Since you are defending the believer's perspective, why don't you prove that we do not have anything that can break the sound barrier.

Read my whole post:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
(Do not take anything out of context.)

Something to read:
hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...

[edit on 7-10-2009 by Pathos]



posted on Oct, 7 2009 @ 10:41 AM
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i think you will find this interesting.......

www.esa.int...



posted on Oct, 7 2009 @ 10:42 AM
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reply to post by Pathos
 


Although I don't share your POV, Pathos, gofr the moment let's say you are right. If that is the case then the US military/government/TPTB have been withholding energy technology from us for over 50yrs. During htat time we (the people) have been forced to pay relatively exhorbitant prices for energy that have significantly contributed to the polution of the environment and the deterioration of the economy. Since 2005 the percentage of GDP spent on energy has almost doubled (~8% to over 14%). Our country has borrowed massive amounts of money from less than friendly sources to finance our economic shortfalls and this has placed us in a very precarious position vis-a-vis national security.

I would contend that IF your persepctive is true and the government/military/TPTB are withholding this technology from us and have done so for over 50yrs then there is a level of treason herein that is nearly incalculable.



posted on Oct, 7 2009 @ 10:47 AM
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reply to post by jtma508
 

Did it ever occur to you that maybe the original claim was false? Since the UFO movement is tainted with people who want to make money, could we agree that some people would make things up to sell a book?


Originally posted by mcrom901
i think you will find this interesting.......
www.esa.int...

I agree. That is actually cool!


===============================

Before anyone else jumps into the debate, please read my whole post:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
(Do not take anything out of context.)

[edit on 7-10-2009 by Pathos]



posted on Oct, 7 2009 @ 10:56 AM
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reply to post by Pathos
 


Absolutely. I believe the majority of UFO reports come from people who are delusional, mistaken, under-educated, commercially-motivated and hysterical. But if we set those people aside and look at the 5% that have been documented, have multiple highly qualified and highly credible witnesses (like those in the program under discussion), have independent corroborating observations (like radar tracking or photography) and sometimes physical evidence, then it becomes clear that there is 'something' going on.

If it is, as you suggest, man-made technology then there exists a technology that is being withheld and my argument stands. If it is not man made then what?



posted on Oct, 7 2009 @ 11:08 AM
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reply to post by converge
 


I claim to know nothing my friend, but if you use occums razor and intelligent thought you would realize that for beings to come here there would have to be a reason. And if you think about it the only answers are, study, food, water, air, minerals, new home planet, but I’d say mainly study if they were here. I’m sure our casual conservation about the weather or next beauty product is very important to them


And my proof ha! The proof is your burden not mine. And you seem to assume a lot please don’t include me in the ass-u-me BS, you don’t know me or my interests, it is naive to assume you know anything about me, my comments you may take issue with but don’t assume you know me, or what I have or haven’t investigated on my own.

Being a realist does not make me a denier, it makes me sceptical, big difference. Its means I question everything and take time to analyze the info, to come to my own conclusion.

What baffles me is that you take these objects and shapes which have previously been reviled by the air force, and ignore the information to the point that you believe it to be something else, triangles or diamond shapes are gov planes. circular objects are gov planes, anything with a flashing light is human, off the top of my head let say, its huge, big as an aircraft carrier, it has lights it moves silently, ask many what this is and you will get....Air blimp, Goodyear blimp, Hindenburg.

Just because I know what I saw doesn’t mean I know what I saw, the human brain has a way of changing information to be interpreted in the way we want not always in the way it is.

I cannot logically deny life on other planets but I haven’t seen anything yet that could confirm or even make me think that they are here, all the crappie film, autopsies, talk, fabricated reports from disgruntled or senile old people that want their 15mins before they kick the bucket proves nothing.



posted on Oct, 7 2009 @ 11:11 AM
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Originally posted by jtma508If it is not man made then what?

If that 5% turned out to be alien made UFOs, (and they are not replying to our invitations), I think we would have a big-BIG problem. Any species that has the capability of traveling between solar systems is very advanced; thus, they should be observed and approached with extreme caution.

All we need is the proof. An advanced species would not communicate solely to one culture, nor would they interfere with the development of another species. When an alien presence does arrive to Earth, everyone around the world will be in the know.

Until that point in time, we are really left to our imaginations.

===============================

Before anyone else jumps into the debate, please read my whole post:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
(Do not take anything out of context.)



posted on Oct, 7 2009 @ 11:22 AM
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Originally posted by Pathos
Your logic is flawed.


You said "all nine parts of that video is bull" referring to the documentary, because according to you "it comes from individuals who have a limited understanding of human ingenuity."

Did we watch the same documentary?

You're telling us that Gordon Cooper had a limited understanding of human ingenuity? One of the first men in space? That Edgar Mitchell, a man who walked on the Moon, had a limited understanding of human ingenuity?

Yes, the documentary had many testimonies and sightings recounted by every day citizens, but to ignore all the testimony by all the people who were, in their respective fields, highly credentialed people is quite frankly illogical coming from someone who likes to talk about human ingenuity.

More, you continue to portrait the scope of UFO sightings as "bouncing lights" and "bright lights" in the sky.

What about the numerous different eye witnesses who, in Phoenix, including the Governor - a former pilot and cousin of the first Secretary of the Air Force - described seeing the same object and it wasn't "bouncing lights" or flares? What about the radar returns that show an object where several witnesses said they saw a UFO, in Stephenville?

Yes, I know that according to you those are military aircraft. I just find it funny that for someone who constantly criticizes the "believers", you provide nothing more than your theories and beliefs.

Not to mention that, for someone who makes this grandiose speech about human ingenuity and military technology, you apparently don't even have basic knowledge of a recent significant human and military technological accomplishment.



posted on Oct, 7 2009 @ 11:23 AM
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Originally posted by addvantage666
I am continually amused at these people who are always dumbfounded over what they saw, and while everyone describes these "crafts" as being "silent", moves at a ultra rapid speed, turns corners at right angles while at these hight speeds.

All of these descriptors can be replicated by a hoakster with a high intensity holograpic laser and holographic glass plate, projecting a "silent" high speed image, capable of making right-angle turns etc. etc. and NOBODY can ever seem to figure that out.


Wow - these "high intensity holographic lasers" and "holographic glass plates" must be readily available from my local Sears then
Nevermind about the UFO's, I think you must be from another planet. Congratulations on one of the more amusing answers I've seen though...

As for the documentary; nothing new or revolutionary - I've seen it all before - but certainly a good place to start for somebody new to the subject. Thanks for posting


[edit on 7-10-2009 by Curio]



posted on Oct, 7 2009 @ 11:28 AM
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reply to post by longfade
 


How about you attack what i said instead of attacking me, what laziness you show by not even addressing the issues that bothered you in what i said. Your the type that breaks their neck taking a leap of faith into the shallow end.



posted on Oct, 7 2009 @ 11:33 AM
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reply to post by Pathos
 


Those are your personal opinions. We have no way of knowing how an alien culture would interact with us --- if at all. We don't know if these observed phenomena even contina lifeforms. For all we know they could be probes surveying the Universe just as we have been our own astronomical backyard. We can't know if alien cultures would share motives similar to ours or have any similarities at all. We simply don't know.

But I believe there is ample evidence, much of which we have never seen, provided by people with the highest level of credibility and expertise. This program provides some of that. I think it is disingenuous to write-off these people's accounts and evidence given their backgrounds and the fact that they are almost all disincentivized to come forward in the first place.



posted on Oct, 7 2009 @ 11:41 AM
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Originally posted by humilisunus
I claim to know nothing my friend, but if you use occums razor and intelligent thought you would realize that for beings to come here there would have to be a reason.


I don't see why you're invoking Occam's razor since its principle is to make as few assumptions as possible and you're claiming to know the motives alien civilizations would visit our planet, an obvious assumption.



And my proof ha! The proof is your burden not mine.


If you look at my post you're replying the only claim I make is that there are plenty of intelligent people in this forum. I'd like to see you convince our membership that I am wrong.

And, actually, the burden of proof falls on who makes a claim, whether positive or negative. You made, and continue to make, the claim to know the reasons and motivations alien civilizations would visit us.



And you seem to assume a lot


Heh, I had to laugh at that one.



Being a realist does not make me a denier, it makes me sceptical, big difference. Its means I question everything and take time to analyze the info, to come to my own conclusion.


I agree that a skeptic isn't a denier. But a skeptic doesn't make claims, he takes an agnostic position, merely evaluates the evidence and tries to disprove a claim if one was made.

You have made claims, including that the UFO phenomena is limited to "a bunch of lights in the sky", a demonstrable, for example in this documentary, falsehood.



What baffles me is that you take these objects and shapes which have previously been reviled by the air force, and ignore the information to the point that you believe it to be something else, triangles or diamond shapes are gov planes.


Excuse me? Who's this you you're talking about? If you're referring to my person I'd like for you to quote my posts where I've said such a thing. If you're lumping me together in some group, I'd like your explanation on why I belong to that group.



Just because I know what I saw doesn’t mean I know what I saw, the human brain has a way of changing information to be interpreted in the way we want not always in the way it is.


I'm glad you recognize some of the shortcomings of our brain. Too bad you don't seem to recognize the fallacy in assuming that very same brain can understand the reasons alien civilizations would visit us.



posted on Oct, 7 2009 @ 11:45 AM
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reply to post by Pathos
 


That. with respect is the biggest piece of rubbish logic I've seen in quite some time. You don;t have a single shred of evidence from anywhere that there is a man made craft that can, silently, break the sound barrier..

Neither is there any evidence, anywhere, that a man made 8flying sub* has ever been successfully tested. The Russians tried to build one towards the end of WW2 and it simply didn't work. Since then umpteen people have tied and not one, so far, has succeeded..

There is a quote from Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes

"Military secrets are the most fleeting of all"

Yes you, are suggesting that, triangular craft with unbelievable flight characteristics have been flying ,not only for 60 years but not one person has ever spoken about them, even though, we would be on the 3rd-4th generation of engineers repairing and maintaining them.

it also means you are backing the idea of one of the biggest conspiracies ever, in the history of human kind. Namely that, for 60 years the worlds governments have wasted billions of tax payers dollars on pointless rocket research, antiquated ballistic missile systems and,dozens of aircraft designs, that were obsolete before they were even designed..

So don;t try squirming out of it. The logical conclusion of your argument, is exactly that...



posted on Oct, 7 2009 @ 03:23 PM
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Thanks for pointing this out, it´s a quality, well researched, and mostly unbiased documentary. Even had new information to me, like that japan airliner sighting, awesome.

And, like most good threads, its not without its fair share of idiocy from people who find their reality constructs threatened by this information.




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