Nothing "blown away" here.

He is just speculating. It is not like he found a "magic book" of alternate history and I am sure he didn't receive any "eyewitness" testimony so he is speculating and creating his own "story". It isn't like we can prove anything in history other than the oral or written "traditions" of the historical characters and of course those stories are based on the same biases (pro or con) of the writer or storyteller.

that sounds uninteresting, and i oculd care less if the legends were true or not. they're inspirational stories.

Agreed, these so called scholars and researchers have opinions they cannot back up, I prefer to embrace information gleaned from ancient texts that have been found in recent years, the Gnostic's and John Lash's work come to mind.

[edit on 4-10-2009 by Aquarius1]

This is just another assualt on culture. "Studies" such as this serve to tear down our conceptions of heroes, our ideas of valor. Goes along with the femenization of modern men. I know it sounds crazy, but I believe, whether or not its a concerted effort, that there is an ever increasing movement to strip away masculinity from society. Make the population a little easier to control...

Don't really care what this scientist (and I use the term loosely) says. The stories of valiant warriors are inspirational.

I would love to get my hands on his time machine to see if he is right. We can't even be positively sure that some of these greek heroes even existed, and this "scientist" is trying to destroy their image rather than concentrate on finding more evidence to prove not all of them are myth.

*smirk* Well, this is the sort of reaction one would expect against someone bucking the establishment. Seems tht anyone who has an idea that isn't already approved is immediately accused of being a drunk, a lier, or out to make a buck.

I'll admit, there isn't much to go on from the article. Who knows what sources he has, and Paul Bignell does not help with the colorful sarcasm in the article. Still, after reading the whole of the article, it actually sounds more realistic than the glorious legends of old.

Bullocks I say. This guy just want's a name for himself.

Don't you people see the irony here? This is a board dedicated to exposing propaganda and challenging commonly accepted political and social views.

There was no one to do that back then, so what was discussed and what was recorded in history was merely no different then campaigns being run now about a war, a person, etc.

I imagine it was even worse back then because no one could refute any evidence with live action picture like we can do today.

Think if people only had access to main stream news for their information. What would be your opinion of our leaders and of the countries actions.

I for one agree with this guy, and base it wholly on common sense. I can't argue the Alex the Great stance but I can tell you, you don't breed good warriors without destroying all humanity inside them. That's just a fact of human existence. What warrior is good if he would hesitate killing something or if he isn't constantly fighting. You need to keep them in current conflict to keep them apt. Think UFC fighting if you can't wrap your head around it.

So yeah, you guys are blaming someone that is doing basically the same thing as this board, just that he is challenging things from hundreds of years ago.

It's amazing how people thing history is so concrete, almost as if there has been no corruption during the time of its recording or anytime since then as well.

Originally posted by threekings
It's amazing how people thing history is so concrete, almost as if there has been no corruption during the time of its recording or anytime since then as well.

All this did was expose more of their human frailties. It doesn't change their deeds. Sparta at the time was not known for their grace. There were very real reasons for their reputation. It didn't come from picking daisies. The Persians found this out the hard way.

Who cares if Alexander had a softer side? Corruption? Well that goes without saying.

All this reveals is more about their character and personalities.

It changes nothing about their historical accomplishments. IMO.


[edit on 4-10-2009 by SLAYER69]

Oh wow, I have finally seen the light.

I think this person writing the original article (not the original ATS poster) knows little to nothing of warfare whatsoever, nor of history and how it was to fight a battle

That Leonidas was nothing more than a bully is a fallacy, if nothing more than a lie.

Leonidas, took three-hundred volunteers, to step into the void that was left because his own politicians and countrymen were bickering and squabbling amongst themselves, which is the Greek nature, as well as the nature of mankind itself, and when he figured out the people who should be stopping Xerxes through unification against the might of Persia were bought off, either through gold, promises of leadership when none was given prior and should not, or whether it was the promise of serving the right hand of the God-King, King of Kings, Xerxes he took it upon himself to bypass the regular rule of law by making himself a free man and all three-hundred men were as well, volunteers, to bridge that gap left in the wake of the political corruption.

Through both physical as well as metaphorical symbolism, Leonidas knew the goat path, a symbol of the division and small wedge Xerxes had driven amongst his fellow countrymen, he led these men, willingly I might add, to a suicidal confrontation.

There were 11,700 Greeks, 300 Spartans, 7,000 other assorted Greeks, and 4,000 Helot slaves there upon the hot gates of Thermopylae, and Leonidas knew that there would come a slaughter, he wanted himself as well as his men to have done their duty, through action, valor, and the ultimate sacrifice of death.

He was the victor that day, not Xerxes, because his death, both physical as well as metaphorical, re-united all of Greece who was stirred up like a hornets nest against each other and when Xerxes wended his Persian's, with Greek slaves into the bowels of this once dissected nation, he found out that the hornets nest was now stirred against his honeyed lies.

As for Alexander the Great, our issues, as humans, make us into the very men and women who will either fight, or fly in the face of danger, it is called fight or flight mentality and if this simple writer of this particular post has learned anything in my lifetime, it is that we are all unique individuals, either destined to become slaves to the system, to our own wanton lusts, or to a service against our will, but, there are the few unique individuals like Alexander, who will in fact reach their destiny to lead the rule of the world.

Leonidas and Alexander, two individuals, who the rest of humanity could learn a lesson or two from, to be better than the system, to be better than their fellow man or woman, and lead both by example as well as by deed, King's both, and some say bullies, but I say before they conquered the world's of their divination, they had to conquer both fear and themselves.

[edit on 4-10-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Greek Heroes were nothing like our modern definition of the term "hero" is. They were savage, brutal, and fought tooth and nail. I'm sure they were at time thugs, rapists, and pillagers. Just read Homer's Iliad, they measured their victory not only in deeds but bounty, with the mightiest of them being called Heroes. You could also describe them our modern word "infamous" and I don't mean that in a derogatory way.

There's nothing mind blowing or new in this information.

Try learning history through study instead of through films and perhaps you would already have a better understanding of what our race has been through.

Oopsie...double post.

[edit on 4-10-2009 by shamhat]

Originally posted by Frogs
Granted Philip built the Macedonian army and did do great things. But it can't be denied that after Philip he took the army into Asia, destroyed the Persian Empire and conquered lands as far as India. Its not really a small feat - even if he did like to write home to mum.

Well his Mum did (allegedly) plot to kill his Dad in order to make it all possible, a little gratitude is to be expected.