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Will California become America's first failed state?

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posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 10:46 PM
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reply to post by js331975
 


The funny thing about that is I think Florida and California are the two best states
Guess this means I fail as a person.




posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 11:01 PM
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Legalize and tax marijuana would solve at least part of the problem.
If California goes under, as someone already has stated, so will many other states. California takes in many out of staters (more than most other states) who come to live and work. It's a big problem for all of us.

[edit on 4-10-2009 by really]



posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 11:09 PM
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Originally posted by Raist
reply to post by Bhadhidar
 


I am so sick of the argument that illegals do jobs no one else will do.

There are many people out there willing to do the jobs illegals are stealing (regardless of what anyone says they are stealing them).


Most Americans won't work for the wages illegals work for. Many illegals will work VERY hard for the buck they make. That's the truth. I understand and agree with what you've said about the homeless. However, being homeless is a stigma and many people probably wouldn't hire them especially if they're paying illegals less money than they would an American citizen(because of minimum wage). Blame it on corporations again.

Just to be clear, I believe that people Should come to America through legitimate immigration channels. However, corporations don't give a #.



posted on Oct, 5 2009 @ 12:00 AM
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Start undoing the union perks and overpaid workers. Firefighters are making 160K per year! Prison guards close to that, and there are so many unions that have paid off the politicians to vote in the unreasonable perks.
Go bankrupt and start over from zero.
Anything that costs the state over 10$ has to be voted on by the public first.



posted on Oct, 5 2009 @ 12:05 AM
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reply to post by really
 


The illegals are the ones driving the wages down. If there were no illegals where I live, construction workers and landscapers would actually make living wages, because the companies who hire them would have to pay more to get American citizens to do the job. Pay someone enough, and they will do undesirable work. California will not recover until they solve their illegal immigration problem.



posted on Oct, 5 2009 @ 12:30 AM
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I believe illegals contribute more than they "take away". I think the govt economists know this subject better than us, that's why they are tolerating aliens -or not cracking down on them like so many would like to.
The govt and businesses like the fact that they are illegally here. This allows to reduce pay and working conditions, for competitiveness. This is capitalism for you (against you).
They dont care about who is a citizen and who isnt, they only care about the figures in their bank account.You can blame the poor aliens for looking after themselves til you are blue in the face, it wont change a thing. The real culprits are the one benefiting from this slavery.



posted on Oct, 5 2009 @ 12:31 AM
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The UK forgets Michigan. That has had problems longer than California. What this article is trying to do is discredit the closest thing on the planet to mass scale direct democracy...The California State Government.



posted on Oct, 5 2009 @ 12:44 AM
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Let me give you a classic example of "Californiathink" at work.

What do you think attorneys cost? How about trials? How about caseworkers? How about paperwork? Counselors? Foster care? etc.

Let's take a real case. Look at the stupidity. Multiply it times 3500 per year. 61% of the cases should be thrown out, but they are not.

You spank your kid for getting into the dishwasher when it is open. You don't want him to get the knives out, etc. It's dangerous, and your kid has ignored your words. Ok, you spank. Then the kid has to go to the hospital for a separate reason, an infection. The hospital sees a simple infection from a dirty diaper, a slight bruise on a forehead (bumped his head), and suspects rape. The rest of the kids are picked up. A big story is made out of the spanking and the possible rape. Two days later you are in court. The rape (rape kit done) proves negative. The spanking is the one thing left, plus the mother says she sometimes is fearful of the father. NOTE: father has no criminal record, no drugs, no alcohol, no smoking, etc. Zero.

What does California do? Well, they take the kids, put them in a foster home. The kids are noted by the foster parents as model children. The kids are returned home (not to their real home with their real parents, but to the grandparents home), with more injuries from foster care. Nothing is noted about the foster care injuries by the State. ONE AND A HALF YEARS LATER, AFTER SEVERAL COURT APPEARANCES OF LESS THAN FIVE MINUTES EACH AND LITTLE OR NO EXCHANGE BETWEEN THE COURT APPOINTED ATTORNEY AND THE PARENTS THE KIDS ARE STILL WARDS OF THE COURT. Now, multiply this times 90+ and you have the typical load of one Child Protective Services caseworkers.

Since there is little or no oversight or control of this situation, it is coming to a home near you...... I never thought it could happen to my family...we live simple, productive, clean lives without any crime.

PS: The Attorney General of the State of California made a legal opinion that spanking like this is ok. ag.ca.gov...

By taking the father out of the home, they have likely created secondary psychosocial problems fathersforlife.org...

[edit on 5-10-2009 by Jim Scott]



posted on Oct, 5 2009 @ 03:11 AM
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The answer is absolutely YES...in fact, California is in such a failed State right now that the best thing we can hope for would be that the San Andreas fault split this thing in half...and we all watch it float into the ocean.



posted on Oct, 5 2009 @ 03:16 AM
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America already has its first failed state: Michigan -- or, more specifically, Detroit.





[edit on 10/5/09 by silent thunder]



posted on Oct, 5 2009 @ 03:21 AM
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No I haven't read the whole thread. Ok. BUt you guys are focusing on taxes. Calif doesn't need any more taxes! Can you imagine what they rake in on fees? DMV fees alone!!! OMG where is the fee money going??? What about the CRV rip off???? How many bazillions are they slushing away there??? What about the f-ing lottery that got voted in to subsidize education??? Now theres about a 100 admins per student and no supplies and now cutbacks???? How about transparent accounting and fees put to ballot?



posted on Oct, 5 2009 @ 03:28 AM
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reply to post by Lemon.Fresh
 


On the topic of illegals . . .

could it be that they lower the wages of everyone overall, therefore lowering taxable income, therefore lowering government income?

_____________________________________________________________
Yes!!!!!
Have a whole bunch more to say but deleted it lest I get banned for appearing racist.



posted on Oct, 5 2009 @ 03:31 AM
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LOL!

California is one of the worlds largest economies based on the huge amount they make off of property taxes as it is.

You have two bedrooms going for 500,000 dollars down here in San Diego.

So to say that the problem is the tax cap is absolutely foolish on your part OP.


The problem with California is simply that they can't afford the lifestyle they used too. California needs to get over this fact and live within it's means just like the rest of us.

TA!!

Izzy.



posted on Oct, 5 2009 @ 04:01 AM
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Stop. Look :

Google Video Link


Jobs for what ? 50% of the workforce could be unemployed and the food or clothes or any other basic items - there would be no shortage of these. When was the last time you heard : "there is a shortage of food because there are not enough people working".

So : everyone gets them for free. And everyone is given a chance to work - in the production of the basics. No money involved. Wants more ? - Free to find a job. With money. But the middlemen the bankers deny such an organization. Everything must be paid, people must borrow, people must go hungry or live in tents. Like it's WW2 or something. It's not. Just some stupid game with papers with numbers on them.

The system is wrong. Try to fix it - you fix the engine but the car has square wheels ! Nobody seems to notice. I mean it's unthinkable for a car to have square wheels. So it's impossible to see.


The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled.
J K Galbright


www.orionmagazine.org...

In a 1927 interview with the magazine Nation’s Business, Secretary of Labor James J. Davis provided some numbers to illustrate a problem that the New York Times called “need saturation.” Davis noted that “the textile mills of this country can produce all the cloth needed in six months’ operation each year” and that 14 percent of the American shoe factories could produce a year’s supply of footwear. The magazine went on to suggest, “It may be that the world’s needs ultimately will be produced by three days’ work a week.”




[edit on 5-10-2009 by pai mei]



posted on Oct, 5 2009 @ 04:49 AM
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Originally posted by centurion1211
How liberals/progressives can fail to understand your logic borders on criminal to me.

Since California cannot print money like the federal government does, it must balance its budget.

The other thing going on in CA as the crisis deepens is something I call the "taxpayer drain". Simply put, businesses and individuals that are net payers of taxes are leaving CA at an increasing rate. Immigrants and low income people with high birthrates - net users of taxes - are coming in behind them to take advantage of CA's attempt to become a nanny state.

Previous prediction of mine now coming true: CA's infrastructure would start to fail as revenues no longer keep up with spending.

The liberal/progressive attempt to create a nanny state in CA has failed. Still they want to now try it on the whole country. They foolishly believe that it failed not because the entire concept is flawed (which has been shown in many places), instead they still cling to the misguided belief that CA somehow just didn't do it right.



[edit on 10/4/2009 by centurion1211]



as so often, those on the left are loyal to "ideas" and not reality, this also explains why many on the left are hypocrites in reality compared to the ideals they spout about and try and impose on the rest of us.


*So many examples, start with Al Gore's mansion*



posted on Oct, 5 2009 @ 05:15 AM
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Originally posted by blueorder


as so often, those on the left are loyal to "ideas" and not reality, this also explains why many on the left are hypocrites in reality compared to the ideals they spout about and try and impose on the rest of us.


I totally agree. But you might not like my related opinion: The exact same thing could be said of many on the right.

I tend to "skew rightwards," but my ultimate loyalty is to REALITY and TRUTH.

The way I see it, there are two kinds of people, and they don't break down into "left" versus "right." Rather, the difference is between "people who put ideology first and then try to warp their perceptions to fit their preconceptions," versus "those who take a cold hard look at things, based on history, and see what they see without worrying about whether it fite this or that party playbook." Unfortunately, there seem to be a lot more of the former than the latter -- one of the major causes behind our current sorry state of affairs, IMHO.



posted on Oct, 5 2009 @ 06:29 AM
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Originally posted by silent thunder

Originally posted by blueorder


as so often, those on the left are loyal to "ideas" and not reality, this also explains why many on the left are hypocrites in reality compared to the ideals they spout about and try and impose on the rest of us.


I totally agree. But you might not like my related opinion: The exact same thing could be said of many on the right.

I tend to "skew rightwards," but my ultimate loyalty is to REALITY and TRUTH.

The way I see it, there are two kinds of people, and they don't break down into "left" versus "right." Rather, the difference is between "people who put ideology first and then try to warp their perceptions to fit their preconceptions," versus "those who take a cold hard look at things, based on history, and see what they see without worrying about whether it fite this or that party playbook." Unfortunately, there seem to be a lot more of the former than the latter -- one of the major causes behind our current sorry state of affairs, IMHO.




Fair enough assessment, maybe I'm biased coming from a more "conservative" viewpoint, but I see the hypocrisy more frequently from the left



posted on Oct, 5 2009 @ 07:39 AM
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No, but it will be the first state to face a MEGA TSUNAMI FROM A 10 + QUAKE OFF THE WEST COAST.



posted on Oct, 5 2009 @ 09:56 AM
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reply to post by really

Most Americans won't work for the wages illegals work for.

Americans can't work for the same wages. Americans are here legally, and have to file taxes every year. Illegal immigrants only file should they get caught. The minimum wage laws prohibit everyone from working for wages lower than $7.25 an hour, but the only ones actually held to that standard are those who are not here illegally already.

Laws do not change the actions of those who are already criminals.

TheRedneck



posted on Oct, 5 2009 @ 10:19 AM
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Why dont we just sell California to Mexico and use the money to pay down our loans from the Chinese. Kill two birds with one stone, maybe 3, because then maybe the rest of the illegals will move to Cali once its part of Mexico.

I guess in the end, regardless of what happens, California is just more proof that communism does not work.



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