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Will California become America's first failed state?

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posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 03:16 PM
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I work for the State of California.

In fact, I work for one of the State's tax agencies (in the interests of "Checks and Balances", there are three separate departmaents charged with the collection of different taxes).



Let's get one thing straight; so-called "illegal immigrants" ARE NOT! the cause, or even a major contributor to, the State's current financial problems.


The Fact is, undocumented, or "illegal" workers are a Key component of the State's economy, without whom the State's economy would NEVER have achieved its, once lofty, world status.


The Fact is, illegal workers Do Pay Taxes! just like every other citizen of the State, through payroll deduction and sales taxes.


Now let me be clear here: The law in California (state and federal) requires that withholding for Personal Income Tax be deducted from a worker's pay, if the worker makes over a certain amount (unless the worker is considered an "Independent Contractor" under Federal law, in which case, the worker him/herself is reposible for making quarterly estimate tax payments), by the employer.


Whether you're "legal" or not, if your wages fall below the minimum requirement, your employer is not required to collect for personal income tax, because you don't earn enough to owe any personal income tax.

Jobs that pay these kinds of low wages are the "scutt jobs" that only the desparate seek, the jobs that many immigrants, by necessity, gravitate to.


So in most cases, it is up to the employer to collect for state personal tax. If the employer is remiss in this duty, it is not the fault of the employee; especially if the employee, undocumented, possibly unfamiliar with either language or tax law (how many of You can say that you are competent with regard to the requirements and details of income tax law?), is fearful of losing his/her job if seen as a "trouble-maker" by holding the employer to the law.


Yes, it is the illegals who pay their taxes. It is you legal citizens who are the prime tax evaders.

It is the employers who "pay under the table" to avoid employment taxation and facilitate their "Creative Bookkeeping" to understate income and profit so as to evade proper taxation. It's you "law-abiding citizens" who buy their luxury goods over the internet and/or in another state to avoid sales tax.

You all set such fine examples of Good Citizenship.



In my experience (more than a decade) when an illegal (as identified by a fake social Security Number) is contacted about a tax debt, he is usually only too glad to pay his debt as quickly as possible. I have, in fact, been often struck by the fact that it seems almost a matter of honor, amoung those of questionable documentation, to be un-indebted to the State.


Sad to say that no such appearance of honor seems to exist amoung the so-called well to do citizens who, with foul mouths that would stun the most seasoned sailor, express their shock and indignatoion at the injustice of being penalized for paying their taxes six months late, if they've filed at all.

No, Miss Rich-B***h, you are Not "entitled" to a waiver of the penalties because you were too busy to talk to you CPA about filing your return!




California is in the financial state its in because people are Stupid!


Republicans and Democrats, liberal and conservative, Stupid Is As Stupid Does!


California has historically tied its revenues to sources that were subject to "Boom and Bust" cycles. Californians of all stripes unwisely bought into their hype, that the "Gravy Train" would never derail and it Never Rains In California!

California wanted to be everything to everybody, so Californians voted in favor of many social programs that made it the envy of the rest of the country; the cost of those programs was, at the time, easily balanced by the then booming economy.

California was the land of milk and honey. But as more and more people flocked to the State there was less and less room to raise the cows that made the milk and tract houses plowed under the flowers the bees needed to make the honey.


Deregulation of the State's energy program (under a Republican governor) indirectly lead to the Enron scandal, wherein much of California's budget surplus was "stolen" by a bunch of crooks in Texas.

The "DotCom" bubble-burst left California without a major source of revenue to rebuild its coffers, coffers once fed by agriculture now supplanted by shuttered high-tech firms whose manufacturing plants spawled across what was once farm-land.


And now, of late, the combined impact of the housing bust and the world financial crisis have shot the bottom out of California's boat.


California's biggest problem is that its economic model was based on a "More people = More money to Serve Those People" model.

Unfortunately, as California is learning, when the Money goes away, but the People stay, the model collapses.


Will California survive?

Well, the latest plan is to sell off many of the State's office buildings to raise immediate cash.

OK, so when you need cash you sell off some of the things you don't need or use, Right? That's what E-Bay is for.


But in California's case, the Governor (Republican) and the Legislature (mostly Democrats) have decided to sell off State buildings that are still in use (some of them relatively brand new!)...

...And then RENT THEM BACK FROM THEIR NEW OWNERS!


This is how you Save money? This is an example of the "high-level" reasoning that goes on within the halls of our Government?



Yes, I fear the State of California is Doomed.




posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 03:38 PM
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reply to post by Bhadhidar
 

When I was a chef and kitchen manager and was basically forced by my cheap arse employer to hire illegals they wanted to make sure that every penny they owed was taken out...they wanted no problems from either the state or the feds. If the slug I worked for tried to pay them under the table they said no sir. They simply did not want to rock any boats.

Not all are that way but out of the 50 or so I hired over the years...I would say 45 of them wanted nothing other than a chance to work...and boy did they work.

I couldn't get that degree of labor even from a kid whose family had nothing but were citizens...much less from a kid whose parents were well off.

They were useless.



posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 03:41 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 03:42 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 03:47 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 03:49 PM
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reply to post by grover
 


This, by extension, has been my experience as well.

And yes, "Abosolutes are Obsolete", and so not all immigrants may rise to the level of industry and honor demostrated by the majority of their compatriots; but it seems to me that there seems be some truth to the saying that when you have little, your honor is your most precious posession; when you have plenty, your honor is just one more coin in your sack.



posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 04:07 PM
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Originally posted by grover
One of the key ingredients to the California disaster that politicians in the golden state hate to discuss is proposition 13 passed in 1978 which limited property taxes to:

en.wikipedia.org...

Proposition 13, officially titled the "People's Initiative to Limit Property Taxation," was a ballot initiative to amend the constitution of the state of California. The initiative was enacted by the voters of California on June 6, 1978. It was upheld as constitutional by the United States Supreme Court in the case of Nordlinger v. Hahn, 505 U.S. 1 (1992). Proposition 13 is embodied in Article 13A of the California Constitution.


I blame the democrats without prop 13 the democrats would have had a unlimited checkbook.

The problem is that the democrats because of prop 13 went after business and that forces many businesses out of the state causing large good paying job losses over the years.
capoliticalnews.com...
Then you add on all the environmental laws that did nothing or made things worse like forcing the use of MTBE in gasoline.
This caused even more companies to leave the state.

Now you have the democrats forcing the utilities to go solar and wind and at the same time blocking the building of new wind and solar projects in Calif and forcing the utilities to build or buy solar and wind power from other states and causing even more money and good paying jobs to leave the state of Calif.

Add to that the democrats protecting the illegal in Calif and the depressed wages caused by that.

Now you know why Calif has been losing population as the skilled workers and retires leave to state before there pockets get picked by the democrats.
www.drudge.com...
holycoast.blogspot.com...

I am moving back to Texas as soon as i can

[edit on 4-10-2009 by ANNED]

[edit on 4-10-2009 by ANNED]



posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 04:10 PM
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Originally posted by silver tongue devil
reply to post by bismarcksea
 


What State are you residing in that does not spend more then they make?


Texas



posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 04:10 PM
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Originally posted by Chakotay

Originally posted by Bhadhidar
I work for the State of California...
California is in the financial state its in because people are Stupid!


This is how my paid servant, a non-labouring and non-productive drone feasting at the public trough on my hard-won honey, a paper-shuffler who makes no tangible goods or services dares to speak of me in public.

To which I reply, I have no more money to give you, extortionist.

You are Fired.


People are Stupid.
Proof of my estimation.


I AM NOT your "servant".


Obviously, your Ignorance has led you to forget that I pay Taxes, Too!


So by your "logic", I'M SELF-EMPLOYED!


Would that I could reserve the right to refuse to serve anyone of my choosing.


And I daresay that my efforts make possible the coddled life you and your ilk so ill-desreve. In fact, I can reasonably proffer that my efforts have served the commonwealth far better than your pitiful squanderings ever will.

My efforts, and those of my colleagues, provide the means by which you and your kind are relieved of the burden of building your own roads, fighting your own fires, and educating (to the meger level made possible by their questionable genetics) your mis-begotten spawn.


With due apologies to the Censors:



I AM A STATE EMPLOYEE,

I AM NOT YOUR BITCH!



posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 04:17 PM
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reply to post by Bhadhidar

Let's get one thing straight; so-called "illegal immigrants" ARE NOT! the cause, or even a major contributor to, the State's current financial problems.

OK, so they do pay income taxes where taxes are owed. I'll grant you that.

Now let's talk about how many of them, since they have no marketable skills and are forced to find work in the lowest-paying jobs, take from the budget? Food stamps, medicaid, welfare, housing assistance... the list goes on and on of ways the taxpayer is paying much much more than they are getting.

And this is not for our citizens; this is for anyone who wants to wade across the Rio Grande!

I'll agree with you that government is the problem, and that it is not just liberals or conservatives or Republicans or Democrats that are to blame... it's the irresponsible! But irresponsibility goes far beyond selling public buildings so you can pay rent in them... it also covers trying to be a benefactor to everyone who wades a creek and demands that you care for them.

California is broke!

Experiment failed!

Lesson over!

Now get out of the classroom before they turn off the lights.

TheRedneck



posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 04:20 PM
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Balancing the state budget is required by the Texas Constitution. We also have a rainy day fund. Was that a rain drop?



posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 04:22 PM
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grover, here is a progressive take on Prop 13

As it states, and I definitely remember

Prop. 13 addressed one specific problem - property tax assessments were growing faster than wages.
, but it also

grafted onto the measure designed to slow down that growth were a series of proposals - shifting the balance of power from local to state government, capping commercial property with residential, and establishing the 2/3 requirement for revenue - that have gradually but steadily eroded the quality of life that previously made the state the envy of the nation and the world.


Perhaps this article says it best.

Paradoxical to the law's initial intent, the commercial property loopholes in Proposition 13 have actually shifted the tax burden away from corporations and onto the backs of residential property owners.


We also got taken in 2001 by Kenny Boy Lay and another Texas theif, Phil Gramm, in the fake "energy crisis".

Re illegals. The fruit or vegie you eat from CA may have been picked by undocumented workers. I remember the Border Patrol rolling through the area to round up workers without papers, before early 1980's. After that, govt allowed businesses (in every stater) to hire non-documented workers, by not enforcing their own laws! Want lower wages...allow a large pool of workers willing to work for less.

Personally, I know of only one person who received a state IOU. A young single woman who became pregnant, chose to have the child, signed up for govt programs to help pay rent and school for her. This is her society's way of saying "Thank you for not aborting."

Your article mentioned green tech. Yes, there are businesses in CA trying to do what Thom Friedman (and Mr. Jones) says we need to do to survive.

I have enjoyed traveling to almost every state and have found beauty in the land and people of each. As a CA native, I remain loyal (and alive thanks to our off road adult helmet law!), even though my children have decided to find their fortunes elsewhere.

And that's the way CA has always been, from the fur traders, to the families who left all behind in other states in search of gold or land not blown away in the Dust Bowl, to survivors of Katrina or the wars in southeast Asia.

Besides, if we don't fix our economy here, we'll have less federal taxes to help out our fellow Americans, who depend on getting from us, the dollars we send to Washington but don't get back.



posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 04:39 PM
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reply to post by desert
 


www.commondreams.org...

Published on Sunday, August 17, 2003 by CommonDreams.org

More important, however, Schwarzenegger still wont respond to questions about why he was at the Peninsula Hotel in Beverly Hills two years ago where he, former Los Angeles Mayor Richard Riordan and junk bond king Michael Milken, met secretly with former Enron Chairman Kenneth Lay who was touting a plan for solving the state's energy crisis. Other luminaries who were invited but didnt attend the May 24, 2001 meeting included former Los Angeles Laker Earvin, Magic, Johnson and supermarket magnate Ron Burkle.



[edit on 4-10-2009 by liveandletlive]



posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 04:41 PM
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Originally posted by Bhadhidar
...
It is you legal citizens who are the prime tax evaders.

It is the employers who "pay under the table" to avoid employment taxation and facilitate their "Creative Bookkeeping" to understate income and profit so as to evade proper taxation. It's you "law-abiding citizens" who buy their luxury goods over the internet and/or in another state to avoid sales tax.

You all set such fine examples of Good Citizenship.


....

Sad to say that no such appearance of honor seems to exist amoung the so-called well to do citizens who, with foul mouths that would stun the most seasoned sailor, express their shock and indignatoion at the injustice of being penalized for paying their taxes six months late, if they've filed at all.

No, Miss Rich-B***h, you are Not "entitled" to a waiver of the penalties because you were too busy to talk to you CPA about



I liked all your post, but this made me


And you are so right about the boom and bust economy. And, I suppose the farming water situation would be worse, except for all the land taken out of farm production to build tract housing.



posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 04:43 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 04:48 PM
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We will now return to...

Civil, on topic discussion sans name calling or sophomoric vitriol.

Mod Note: Courtesy Is Mandatory – Please Review This Link.



posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 04:53 PM
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reply to post by liveandletlive
 


A great read! Thanks!

The only state of more mystery to me than my own is Texas. I guess it has to be so big, to hold the likes of characters as diverse as Rick Perry and Jim Hightower.



posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 04:55 PM
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I think it will be. Man!



posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 05:03 PM
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Ugh.
I've lived in northern California my entire life, and let me tell you, the government is DEFINITELY the problem. You can't do ANYTHING without being taxed, and sales tax in many counties is upwards of 10%. The government has ridiculous waste problems, redundant and useless councils about this and boards about that that pay excesses of 100,000 per year for going on a tax payer paid "meeting" in Hawaii. The democrats and the prostitutes that call themselves politicians have sold out our state to the lobbies to the point where nothing works at all.

I think it could be similar to the federal government 50 years from now if it keeps its current course.



posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 05:16 PM
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reply to post by kingoftheworld
 


You know those 2 inch fish are eaten by the native salmon and steelhead populations which in turn gives jobs to tons of fisherman. I forget the exact number. So whos to say farmers are better than fisherman. In this case they cant just give the farmers water because thousands of fisherman wouldnt have a job and the 2 inch fish could also decimate the slamon population.



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