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Will California become America's first failed state?

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posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 12:24 PM
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Originally posted by Ptolemy 7th
I don't Understand how you people blame the Liberals for California's problems when the state is run by a Republican...


A little research on how the state government works might help you with this. The governor may be a Republican - actually a RINO - but the legislature that makes the laws is and has been heavily democrat.

*SNIP*

Mod Edit: Terms & Conditions Of Use – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 4/10/2009 by Mirthful Me]




posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 12:26 PM
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Originally posted by grover
reply to post by jimmyx
 

It was a solution and the state has done much of what you suggest and it is still tanking.


See my post above for the reasons why.


It reaches a point when just cutting services won't suffice and when that happens the whole system either has to be redone or taxes need to be increased or both.

Just cutting taxes and/or services is simplistic.


Let's agree on redoing the whole system and throwing the whole nanny state idea out the window.




posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 12:36 PM
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reply to post by grover

Just cutting taxes and/or services is simplistic.

Cutting services is the only possible answer. Simplistic or not.

You can only tax so much before you make it impossible for the economy to operate. Money does not come from thin air; it is produced by those with the means to operate businesses to produce commerce. A portion of that money produced goes to the government for services. the more services, the more taxation is required. The more taxation that is required, the less money people have left after taxes to spend. the less people have to spend, the less they can buy. the less they buy, the less businesses make. the less businesses make, the less actual tax money they pay in.

I agree that taxation is necessary. But that does not mean that excessive taxation is necessary. There has to be a balance between what people want from their government and what they are willing to (or able to) pay. Too much taxation leads to an actual decrease in tax revenue. Too few taxes and the government is ineffective.

California has breached the limits of what they can do. They spent too much, without realizing the effect their higher taxes would have on their revenues. Now it's time to pay up, and there's no more money.

Lesson completed. Experiment failed. Services will now be cut painfully and without discretion, not by the government of California, not by the people of California, but by economics.

TheRedneck



posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 12:38 PM
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Originally posted by silver tongue devil
reply to post by bismarcksea
 


What State are you residing in that does not spend more then they make?



The State of Confusion never spends more than it makes.



(not directed at bismarcksea, just states in general)





[edit on 4-10-2009 by RoofMonkey]



posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 12:39 PM
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reply to post by Ptolemy 7th
 


With all due respect, the Governator (TM) is Republican, mostly by party affiliation only- he's married to a Kennedy. Beyond that, he can propose budgets all he wants but without our Democrat-majority ran congress' approval, he's impotent with regards to changing anything. The best he can do is suggest and approve things he likes, or veto things he doesn't.



posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 12:50 PM
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reply to post by abecedarian
 




The symbol™ your looking for is [alt] 0153 on the numeric pad.

(keep the [alt] pressed while you type in the 0153)





[edit on 4-10-2009 by RoofMonkey]


MMP

posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 01:00 PM
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I'm not going to pretend that I have any real answers for California's budget because I'm not very familiar with the state's needs. However, I will share something that happened to me as a kid and struck me as odd since I'm from the midwest. The first thing I ever bought in California was a bottle of chocolate milk for 99 cents. I was shocked when I was charged no sales tax. Is that still going on?

Also, I love it when partisan politics gets in the way of what's best for the people that elect political officials. Is the budget suffering because there is no lobby group telling the politicians what to do???



posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 01:04 PM
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What I am saying is to fix the state...there has to be give and take between the Republicans and Democrats...there has to be budget cuts and there has to be tax increases...any half measures or only one of the above's won't do it.



posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 01:05 PM
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Yep California is wonderful, having lived in the Bay Area from 88-2000 and just in time for the 89 Quake, 91 Oakland Firestorm and numerous mud slides through the years, and yes the weather is perfect, first three years I was there lived through the end of a five year drought, nine months of the year everything is dead, those so called Golden Hills are dead, the school system is inferior and Prop 13 is part of the problem, when I left in 2000 the state had a surplus and everything went downhill from there.



posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by Aquarius1
... and yes the weather is perfect, first three years I was there lived through the end of a five year drought, nine months of the year everything is dead, those so called Golden Hills are dead ...


You know, I keep hearing about the so-called perfect weather in the SF Bay Area. Also lived there for 15 years - until 2005.

Coming from the mid-west, I always thought the weather in the Bay Area was rather boring. No real seasons beyond just wet and dry. No majestic thunderstorms, and no snow.

And we had to deal with the fog where I lived. The penalty for a sunny day was often a cold, clammy, foggy evening and night.

Like so many other things about the "Golden State", even the weather fails to live up to the hype.

[edit on 10/4/2009 by centurion1211]



posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 01:52 PM
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California (aka The Wicked Witch of the West) incarcerates and tortures its own citizens for non-crimes, passes unbelievably restrictive legislation making it impossible to carry on an independent manufacturing business, and wastes money on non-productive enforcement of non-crime laws. if this State fails it will be a Blessing to Liberty, and an Example of Political Karma.

I for one will shed no tears for a State that is opposed to Freedom.


[edit on 4-10-2009 by Chakotay]



posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 02:12 PM
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reply to post by Chakotay
 

If all that were true then why is it the 8th largest economy in the world...even with all its problems?



posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by Ptolemy 7th
I don't Understand how you people blame the Liberals for California's problems when the state is run by a Republican...


*SNIP*

Mod Edit: Terms & Conditions Of Use – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 4/10/2009 by Mirthful Me]


California state spending more than doubled in 10 years, and almost 40% under Schwarzenegger. He might be a Republican, but he is definitely not a Conservative, by any definition. So, does that make him RINO? It does in my book.


The current crisis, however, began when state spending doubled from $70 billion in 1998 to $145 billion in 2008, increasing by almost 40 percent under California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger. When faced with a tremendous budget shortfall, Democrats refused to cut any government spending, while republicans resisted tax hikes, correctly noting that taxing during a recession would retard economic growth and thus yield lower government revenue. With Republicans devoid of leadership in Governor Schwarzenegger’s administration, the impasse was never overcome, and California was forced to issue thousands of IOUs, cut funds to education and release prisoners onto the streets. Our crisis was caused by reckless government policy, and it was completely avoidable.

Source.



posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 02:17 PM
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It is extremely easy to blame liberals for Cali's problems. Liberal policies in regard to immigrants, environment etc. are to blame....and Ahhhnold is about as republican as Nancy Pelosi.

Honestly it is difficult to feel empathy for a state filled with people for whom I hold little to no respect. From the gangbangers of LA, to the holier than thou elite like Pelosi, to the masses of illegal aliens who have no respect for our laws and culture, to the constant barage of Hollywood artists trying to force their ideals (or rather a lack thereof IMO) down my throat, to my personal favorite San Fransisco's Stephen Fowler (episode of wife swap). *You want to know what the wealthy elite REALLY think of all of us lowly grunts, look up some of those clips. To hell with succession, we should boot THEM out of the union....that would help things tremendously.

I am sure there are some good people there, but they are vastly overshadowed by the others. All I have to say is when it happens, if you belong to one of the aforementioned groups, fly right on over and keep heading east....no need to stop here.



posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 02:21 PM
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When will you guys get it through your heads California's problems are not just caused by liberals...Democrats...conservatives...Republicans...proposition 13 or over spending...Its caused by all of the above.

And unless the problem caused by political infighting and over spending and proposition 13 etc is addressed systemically as opposed to the piecemeal approach done so far...nothing will change and if California's economy collapses it will drag the whole country down if only because it is so large.



posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 02:23 PM
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I don't know what they are spending all that money in cali on. The roads here are awful every street and hwy has bad cracks and potholes.

They should tax medicinal marijuana, which other states can not do. it is said that the taxation of mmj would create 1.4$ billion in revenue

they should also tax each finished movie. some movies make over 100's of million $ in profit. why not take a small % of that from the blockbuster movie's producers, who rake it the dough



[edit on 4-10-2009 by tooo many pills]



posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 02:26 PM
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Originally posted by MMP
I'm not going to pretend that I have any real answers for California's budget because I'm not very familiar with the state's needs. However, I will share something that happened to me as a kid and struck me as odd since I'm from the midwest. The first thing I ever bought in California was a bottle of chocolate milk for 99 cents. I was shocked when I was charged no sales tax. Is that still going on?

Also, I love it when partisan politics gets in the way of what's best for the people that elect political officials. Is the budget suffering because there is no lobby group telling the politicians what to do???


Yes, there is no tax on food products that you take home to eat. They only tax food if you sit down and eat it there, such as restaurant meals.

Another problem with Calif. is concessions to public employee unions.

A large amount of revenue not only for the state but cities and counties are paying retirement for people who no longer work for them.

You can retire after 20 years or age 55.

Considering the longer life span now that adds up.



posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by centurion1211

Originally posted by Aquarius1
... and yes the weather is perfect, first three years I was there lived through the end of a five year drought, nine months of the year everything is dead, those so called Golden Hills are dead ...


You know, I keep hearing about the so-called perfect weather in the SF Bay Area. Also lived there for 15 years - until 2005.

Coming from the mid-west, I always thought the weather in the Bay Area was rather boring. No real seasons beyond just wet and dry. No majestic thunderstorms, and no snow.

And we had to deal with the fog where I lived. The penalty for a sunny day was often a cold, clammy, foggy evening and night.

Like so many other things about the "Golden State", even the weather fails to live up to the hype.

[edit on 10/4/2009 by centurion1211]


Right now I am looking out my window and seeing the beautiful fall colors. It is sweater weather here right now and looking forward to winter. The four seasons rock.



posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by silver tongue devil
reply to post by bismarcksea
 


What State are you residing in that does not spend more then they make?


Texas does not spend more than they make. In fact, they are required by law, to have a balanced budget.


CA can solve their problem by:

1.) Slashing government programs to bare bones

2.) Increasing taxes until it is stabilized

3.) After stabilization, cut taxes back to normal, and keep a balanced budget

[edit on 10/4/2009 by Lemon.Fresh]



posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 02:58 PM
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Maybe if they would start forcing those who are living off a system they really do not need to go out and make their own living things would change.

Maybe if they stopped just letting illegals hang out and take from the real tax payers things would change.

Maybe if they would stop spending money like it had no end things would change.

Little sickens me more than wasteful government spending. I know, I know, I am sick a lot.

Raist



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