Eight U.S. troops killed in east Afghan battle

reply to post by sadchild01


Russia can't even secure it's own assets.

Can't even secure it's own warheads.

The US is spending billions to help Russia secure them, since Russia isn't up to the task.

I mean, just how hard is it to secure warheads?

So how in hell are they going to bring it to the US?

reply to post by ninecrimes

Why don't we all just start answering each others' questions with other irrelevant questions?

I believe you quoting 30,000 civilian deaths as revelant.

BTW, appreciate the source.

only to retract your desire for debate with overt deflection.

No deflection here. I am at work and can't respond as much as I like. Your number of 30,000 just isn't a number I had heard before.

Why don't they question the war they are fighting?

You should ask some of the people on ATS who currently serving our country.

Should I be sorry for having so many questions about a war we have no business being in the middle of?

No you shouldn't. Ask away. But just remember that some people do believe we have a reason to be in the middle of this.

If we didn't invade Afghanistan, would terrorists be blowing themselves up inside our malls and universities?

IMO, yes they would. Sooner or later they would find another reason to be angry at us and would try to send another message to us.

In hindsight, maybe we could have done many things different. Unfortunately we didn't. We are where we are and we need to ensure that terrorists will have one less place in which to sharpen their skills.

Do you think we can appease the terrorists?






[edit on 5-10-2009 by jam321]

reply to post by SFwife


Hon, your husband is a Special Forces soldier. He is the best of the best, and no, this clown who has little understanding of the larger scope is not who your husband is putting it all on the line for.

He's laying it on the line for his brothers, those people in his area of operations, and for you.

Let not these gnats fluster you.

When I wore the uniform, I had the same, identical retards repeating by rote the same, selfish crap.

They would even get into my face.

Which I didn't cotton to.

Not the proximity.

Their faces.

And on a number of occasions, I took the opportunities as presented to modify, rearrange, and alter to my own personal satisfaction.

We had a word for folks like this, who were very selfish, very self-centered, and who didn't have any personal courage, and if I recollect correctly, that word started with a "C."

No. I don't want to lead you on - the word wasn't chikenschitt. Something similar, but that wasn't the word.

The topic is these soldiers who died. I thought we learned these lessons decades ago, but we continue to make the same, identical, tactical mistakes.

If the reported information is correct, they were holed up in two fixed positions.

You never, ever, hole up in fixed positions. To do so, you just negated freedom of movement, you just made yourself a stationary target, and you enabled your enemy to plan against you, and then accumulate forces against you.

Our commanders don't know their butts from a hole in the ground.

They don't know their business.

Eight men killed because they violated one of the principles of warfare, known and practiced without a single failure since 1479 BC.

And we wonder why this is taking so long.

Our commanders are clueless.

So they sit.

And have our soldiers - sit.

Which become targets.

Fixed targets.

reply to post by ninecrimes


I'll try to brief you on what is and has been going on over there.

1979 The Soviet Union invades Afghanistan.
Between 1979-1989 at least hundreds of thousands, possibly millions of Afghanis are killed during the Soviet occupation.

Ahmad Shah Massoud was one of the primary leaders of the Afghan Resistance, he gained the nickname Lion of Panjshir for being one of the primary leaders to drive out the Soviets.

Civil war continued after the Soviets left. The Mujahideen resistance that forced the Soviets out formed a new government: the Islamic State of Afghanistan. This government was recognized as the legitimate government in Afghanistan.

When Kabul fell to the Taliban in 1996, the Islamic State of Afghanistan formed the Northern Alliance also known as the United Islamic Front for the Salvation of Afghanistan. Massoud once again lead the Mujahideen against a foreign supported enemy, the Taliban who are primarily made up of ethnic Pashtuns who live in northern Pakistan and southern Afghanistan.

In April 2001, Massoud spoke before the EU parliament warning of Al Qaeda and the Taliban working togther and an imminent major terror attack on the West.

On Septmeber 9, 2001 Al Qaeda terrorists asassinated Massoud in a suicide bombing. The man who had helped lead Afghanistan to victory against the Soviets was now dead.

Between 1989 to 2001 we supported ISA and later the Northern Alliance (UIF). Massoud was an ally of the US and hero of the Afghan people.

September 11, 2001 an Al Qaeda cell uses commercial aircraft to attack the Pentagon and World Trade Centers.

We begin to heavily support the Norther Alliance and by December of 2001 the legitimate government of Afghanistan once again controlled the capital.

The Taliban were never the legitimate government of Afghanistan. They were religious fanatics supported by the Saudis and Pakistan. They were no different than the communists supported by the Soviet Union.

The Taliban are the real invaders of Afghanistan.

The Afghan government who now rules Afghanistan has roots that go all the way back to the resistance that forced out the Soviets and the Communists. They rule their country, not us. They fight for their country against the Taliban.

When the 8 US soldiers from Fort Carson, Colorado were killed, brave Afghan soldiers and policemen died along side them in the battle. Numerous Afghan police were captured by the Taliban.

The Afghan soldiers and police are heroes, they are fighting against a foreign invader, the Taliban who operate out of Pakistan.

There is no love between Pakistan and Afghanistan, in fact both nations militaries get into cross border firefights. Afghanistan is even an ally of India.

I was there and saw this first hand. When I was in the south on the border of Pakistan I was constantly asked by the locals "why have we not invaded Pakistan?" I was constantly told "They are protecting the Taliban and Al Qaeda." This was among Pashtuns who hated the Taliban's oppressive rule and hated even more the kidnapping of their children to serve in the war.

This is what has been going on. We are not invaders. We are not occupiers. It is not Iraq.

The only invaders and occupiers are the Taliban.



[edit on 5/10/09 by MikeboydUS]

Originally posted by ninecrimes

If we didn't invade Afghanistan, would terrorists be blowing themselves up inside our malls and universities?

Thats a good question. Before 9/11 we didn't have any American troops on the ground in Afghanistan. Now we have thousands of them in Afghanistan after 9/11 when a bunch of terrorists killed 3,000 people on our soil, sooooo lets get back to the billion dollar question, why are we there?

reply to post by deltaboy


We went there to wipe out Al Qaeda. The Northern Alliance supported and welcomed us. They too wanted Al Qaeda blood for the assassination of Massoud.

We gave Pakistan 6.6 billion dollars to push north while we and the ANA pushed south. Pakistan has sqaundered that money, only giving $500 million to their army. They have not kept their part of the agreement.

This has allowed the war to go on much longer than it needed to. We would of been better off forming an alliance with India after the Dec 2001 Indian parliament attacks and destroying the Taliban inside Pakistan.
Our troops would of been home already had we done that.

Have you ever wondered why were even in afganistan?
Theyve got no oil.
The country is nothing but rocks and sand.
Course there is one big thing.

OPIUM

The heart of the drug trade or the the Golden traingle.

American troops will be dying for the drug trade.

To gain control of the poppy's.

All the rest is just lies. One more way TPTB divide & conquor.

Its sad.

reply to post by Eye of Horus


We don't even control the Poppy fields. The vast majority of the Opium is taken south into Pakistan and used by the Taliban to acquire funding that is laundered through Dubai.

Its not helping us one bit.

reply to post by MikeboydUS


And if anybody, ANYBODY suggests or points out the fact that the opium production increased because of the American invasion and control of those drugs, think about the same time the Taliban was getting their butts kicked by a superpower, and needs the drug trade to fund their war against the USA. Common sense.

reply to post by Eye of Horus

Have you ever wondered why were even in afganistan?
Theyve got no oil.
The country is nothing but rocks and sand.
Course there is one big thing.

OPIUM

Think Again. They have lots of resources.

A 2007 preliminary assessment by the USGS, unveiled today at a U.S.-Afghan Business Matchmaking Conference in Washington, shows estimates for copper and iron ore resources have the most potential for extraction in Afghanistan.

Scientists also found indications of abundant deposits of colored stones and gemstones, including emerald, ruby, sapphire, garnet, lapis, kunzite, spinel, tourmaline and peridot.

Gold, mercury, sulfur, chromite, talc-magnesite, potash, graphite and sand and gravel were also listed as examples of mineral resources available for extraction.

"Afghanistan has abundant known mineral resources and also significant potential for additional, undiscovered mineral resources," USGS scientist Stephen Peters said Tuesday in a podcast.

www.ctv.ca...

I know the c word well .I am fond of it ,and use it quite often and yes it describes this spineless **person** . I don't have an issue with punks in real life ,they know better .As you know tho everyone is a Ninja on the the internet

Thanks for taking the time to respond with understanding of how the comment upset me (for a quick min) then I realize how clueless the poster happens to be

Originally posted by SFwife
I know the c word well .I am fond of it ,and use it quite often

and yes it describes this spineless **person** . I don't have an issue with punks in real life ,they know better .As you know tho everyone is a Ninja on the the internet

Thanks for taking the time to respond with understanding of how the comment upset me (for a quick min) then I realize how clueless the poster happens to be

I am aware of the poster you speak of, and they are entitled to their opinion as well as you are. The poster in question, is just trying to get people to look outside the box on this issue. The mission in Afghanistan, is a murky one, fraught with questions, and only through spirited debate, will we get a grasp of it, and hopefully move forward. If you felt offended by their commitments that is your opinion. However, you can't please everyone, there is always someone that will disagree and find offense in any statement made about a controversial issue. As a veteran myself, I didn't find anything insulting or disrespectful about their comments. Personally, I don't think they were out to upset anyone, but voice their observations and analysis of the situation in Afghanistan.

However, I am concerned with the effort in Afghanistan as I am sure your husband probably is? There are know clear objectives in place for the forces to obtain. The US/Nato, has been in country for a very long time and still no tangible progress has been made. It is still the stone-age over there rife with violence, corruption, and narcotics cultivation. It's as though they are treading water. What are they treading water for? What direction is the effort going? These are some questions the MSM should be asking, but have, largely, remained silent on the issue. Anyway you want to look at it, if President doesn't engage this issue with a resolute commitment, it can go down hill very quickly, and that is when the casualty figures soar. Thanks for your husband service and commitment.


[edit on 5-10-2009 by Jakes51]

[edit on 5-10-2009 by Jakes51]


Politics are a funny business huh ? Amazing enough things go on all the time that BELIEVE IT OR NOT The msm and the public never find out about I am sure you know what I am talking about

As for opinions you know what they say about those

I take offense to anyone spewing hateful disrespectful remarks about soldiers ,when I have many ppl I love fighting ,and I think of all those I have lost over the yrs . I think its AMAZING that as a Vet it doesn't offend you But I am not you .You don't know what its like to live my life ,just as I don't know what it is to live yours .
Kind of like A solider that has NEVER left the FOB really has no clue and quite possibly has a different perspective than A soldier actually outside the wire living day to day ,and fighting the fight .
Everyone is different No ?

So anyone who doesn't agree with the war in Afghanistan is a coward?

Thanks for the laugh, guys...

Next time I walk by the army recruiter near my house and the loser recruiter outside starts trying to sell me on that $40k contract (I swear I think some people sign up just to play the XBOX 360 in the recruiters office), I'll tell him "someone on an internet forum told me I'm a coward for not supporting an unnecessary invasion of foreign soil". Maybe that'll get him to understand I'm not the high school dropout he is looking for, to fight an idiot's war.

But let me tell you: the moment I see foreign troops on my soil will be the moment I sign up to defend my nation and liberties.

I guess I'm just a big coward like that.... not wanting to kill innocent people for a cause I am unfamiliar with.

But it's not so bad... I'd rather be called a coward by an idiot, than an idiot calling a good man a coward.

reply to post by SFwife


Why are all of your posts written like a 4th grader?

Does your uber elite special forces commando killing machine husband form statements as well as yourself?

Again- I'd rather be called a coward by an idiot, than to be the idiot calling an intellect a coward for not wishing to kill people.

Originally posted by ninecrimes
reply to post by SFwife

 

Why are all of your posts written like a 4th grader?

Does your uber elite special forces commando killing machine husband form statements as well as yourself?

Again- I'd rather be called a coward by an idiot, than to be the idiot calling an intellect a coward for not wishing to kill people.

Phew!! She tore me a new you know what!!! However, she is a hard-case and she seems to be complacent to logic and reasoning. No matter how eloquent or articulate an argument is about the war she is going to detest it tooth and nail. Thanks for standing behind the most democratic principle, which is, free-spirited debate.

That is all I was trying to convey to the woman, and I thought by offering my own opinion of the comments made by the person's posts and revealing my military service, it would have put her more at ease, and hopefully she would sheathe her saber. Man, was I wrong with that approach. However, if she wants to continue with virulent rhetoric about controversial topics, its her loss. I didn't feel it was dignified to levy a response after that tirade, but kudos to you for responding! Whatever her opinion, she has no right to be obnoxious and disrespectful to an individual with a different view. We are not living in fascist Germany, are we?

reply to post by ninecrimes


I can tell you that when we get foreigners on our soil and you decide to fight - you're going to be a big success.

Unlike her husband, a far-archer abroad trying to keep our enemies away from our city, you want to wait until they're inside the walls before you take up the effort.

How noble. How courageous. I just know your combat skills will be finely honed and effective.

About her husband: the number of elite troops available to any given country are genetically limited. They have a unique ability to push beyond pain and exhaustion, beyond fear and accompanying paralysis, beyond limitations the mind screams for, and in fact are few and very special men.

For years, young men of great physique have assumed that because they excel in sports that the physical part of elite forces training would be a cinch. In truth, the finest physical specimens of manhood fall out of elite training every day.

These wannabes have the physique, the strength, and they have the intelligence, but they don't have a mind that can push past the limits the body says it has hit. Elite forces aren't the largest, the fastest, nor all geniuses. Genius minds cannot begin to do what their minds can do. Actually elite troops are above all that.

They push the body until it screams 'absolutely, positively, no more.' And then they keep going through a force of will. Raw will.

And after several sleepless days and nights when the mind from lack of sleep goes numb from exhaustion and can no longer consciously will or push the body, there is yet something else in these special men that takes over to keep going. Spirit. Pre-programmed determination. Whatever it is.

These men can literally sleep in snatches while standing. They'll 'wake up' hundred of yards from where they can last consciously recall, but all the time, keep moving, alert, reaching, and steadily marching.

Absolute force of will, even when too exhausted for logical thought. No quit in them.

Even when the mind and body both say quit, within these special few, there's always one more objective, one more click, one more effort, one more hour.

The limit of their capabilities is nothing more than a theoretical possibility, as that limit has yet to be reached.

You can kill 'em, but you can't stop 'em. And they don't kill worth a damn.

Since I know what kind of man her husband really is, I do understand her pride in her man. Hell, I'm proud of him, and the others too.

Uber warrior? Killing machine?

THAT was your insult?

You don't know squat.

And I much rather have one of him, than a thousand of you.



[edit on 6-10-2009 by dooper]

reply to post by sadchild01


I may be a little late, but didn't Russia invade Afghanistan a couple decades before we did? Just a thought.

The loss is horrible, of course, however.......................

Losing about 10 men and the enemy loses 100 men is not a loss, but a victory.

Their loss's are about 10X our losses.

Am I the only one who can see this?

reply to post by dooper


And I'd rather have someone who can use their abilities to help people, instead of hurt. I'd also rather have NO ONE, than one of you.

Did you think your opinion would hurt my feelings? Was that your goal? Did you take all that time writing that post, just to make yourself feel superior? Did it work?

I can't tell you how little respect I have for you- I wouldn't waste a wink feeling bad about how some war mongering, anonymous forum tough guy moron feels about me. At the end of the day, you're making war and hostility while I'm growing, expanding and loving.

You've obviously got nothing going on in your life, or you'd have a little more compassion for the people you encounter daily. I just feel sorry you're such a coward as to act like a cyber-tough guy- though I'll admit it's providing me with a bit of late night entertainment.

Keep on keeping on, tough guy.

-Laughing at you.