Eight U.S. troops killed in east Afghan battle

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

ZZZ common man, you were talking about all those pipelines and crap last time and now you forgot it

I was just using that False logic that you like to throw around.

It doesn't wash now does it.

Look in the mirror

reply to post by SLAYER69


What false logic, all I'm saying is that they planned to invade Afghanistan even prior to 9/11 therefore it was unjustified for and the deaths of thousands of Afghans were unjustified for.

Military resorts should be the last option, you think it was the last option when Afghanistan was invaded?

reply to post by oozyism


We have plans to invade everyone what does that have to do with anything? Its standard operating procedure at the Pentagon to have plans for anything and everything.

reply to post by oozyism


Oh and Afghanistan was better off under the Taliban.

Get real Ooz. If you feel so strongly about it then why don't you go sign up and fight for the Taliban they'll accept you after all most of them are not from Afghanistan.



[edit on 5-10-2009 by SLAYER69]

The US doesnt go to war if there are no personal strategic interest in it.

If the Taliban knew where Bin Laden was, I think they would give him away instead of facing the invaders for many years. I do believe Osama is either dead or not in afghanistan and chances are good that he is just a CIA puppet to keep the war on terror going on.
Afghanistan is placed strategically, not only they want to build a pipeline bypassing Russia but they are surrounding Iran for a future war.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by oozyism

 

Oh and Afghanistan was better off under the Taliban.

Get real Ooz. If you feel so strongly about it then why don't you go sign up and fight for the Taliban they'll except you after all most of them are not from Afghanistan.

Comon man you know where I stand:

I never stated Afghanistan was better off under the Taliban, my points revolved around the invasion. You can't risk thousands of lives because you think you can do better in that nation. The situation today is the same as it was under Taliban, there is still a war (hence Taliban vs Norther Alliance). There is still a massive corruption, women are still treated the same.

Taliban could have been influenced through Pakistan, you don't believe that? You don't believe the Taliban could have changed? Even Saddam, the killer of thousands of thousand of Iraqis changed. Before the invasion of Iraq, Saddam changed a lot. Iraq was equivalent to Egypt today, you don't see anyone invading Egypt since Egypt doesn't go against American interests.

It is not fair for the world to suffer due to American interests, especially the vulnerable nations with no secret service, no military might to defend itself internally and externally. America has used these weaknesses for decades now. To protect its own interests.

If America can succeed in Afghanistan, I would be happy. What do I mean by success? Success in my terms means stability, no corruption etc etc but I haven't seen that after 8 years.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by oozyism

 

We have plans to invade everyone what does that have to do with anything? Its standard operating procedure at the Pentagon to have plans for anything and everything.

You still believe Afghanistan was invaded because of 9/11, once again why didn't they provide any evidence? Weren't they after Osama? Osama could have been handed over and now after 800 US lives and thousands of unaccounted Afghani lives, Osama is still at large. And now you want to risk thousands of more Afghani lives because Osama is at large. WOW!!

Originally posted by oozyism

If America can succeed in Afghanistan, I would be happy. What do I mean by success? Success in my terms means stability, no corruption etc etc but I haven't seen that after 8 years.

Well that's just it that can't happen if everybody keeps cheering for the other foreigners causing trouble. Personally I think Afghanistan can be stable again. Whether they choose western style Democracy does not matter what does matter is human rights. You know how well those were under the Taliban. The Present Governments record is only a tad better.

I saw some fool post an ignorant thread last year saying that under the new government some girls in certain villages were not allowed to go to school as proof of failure on the "Puppet" Governments part. This was just an example of something that has been going on for thousands of years. People really think that if we can't get a Democracy going in a few years it's a failure.

Again they do not have to adopt a free society/democracy. If they want the Taliban to be a part of the new Government then they should become a political party and work within the system

reply to post by SLAYER69


See once again you bring the human rights issue, and last time you stated it was a cultural issue. The human rights that you are talking about doesn't exist in certain parts of Afghanistan, and in the propaganda against Taliban only those parts were focused on. Today if you do the same, you can produce the same conclusion.

Yes Taliban had bad human rights record but that could have changed diplomatically. There is no need to invade and bring a country to chaos to achieve such a task. You and I both know the influence the Pakistani ISI had/has over the Taliban (at least the leadership), so why didn't America use its influence of Pakistan to put pressure on the Taliban to change for the better? And why is that America's concern in the first place. It should have been a world wide Muslim concern, not an outsider and a nation which is hated by almost ever Muslim. So America is part of the problem, I don't believe it can be part of the solution.

Originally posted by oozyism
Yes Taliban had bad human rights record but that could have changed diplomatically.

You honestly believe that? Now who is being naive? The Taliban only wanted one thing.

Power!

Anybody or anything that got in the way of their twisted view of Islam was a target. Did they really need to execute women for something the rest of the world would think of as trivial? Preventing girls from getting an education. Child brides. Blowing up ancient sculptures that belonged to the worlds heritage again becuase it was not part of their twisted view of the Koran.

Because this is who we are really talking about. Stop trying to romanticize the Taliban. You cant polish excrement.


[edit on 5-10-2009 by SLAYER69]

reply to post by SLAYER69

Do you really believe they wanted power?

Although taliban have never been, until recent times, at the pinnacle of military and political power, they are not new to Afghanistan. They have been a component of the religious establishment and have always lived in the shadow of other military, political, and economic groups. Mullah Shor Bazar, an Afghan fighter known for inflicting heavy losses on the British during the Third Anglo-Afghan war of 1919, was also a talib, as were Mirwais Khan Hotaki, and Mullah Mushki Alam, who fought against the British occupation of Afghanistan. During the national struggle against the Soviet invaders, taliban fought alongside the Mujahideen mainly under the leadership of Mohammad Nabi, one of the seven sanctioned Mujahideen leaders in Pakistan (also known as "Peshawar Tanzeem" Leaders).

AAs a military and political force, the Taliban surfaced in Qandahar in 1994 when Afghanistan was plagued by a vicious civil war. The main military struggle at that time was taking place in Kabul between the forces of Burhanuddin Rabbani and his military commander Ahmad Shah Masood and their allies on one side and the forces of Gulbuddin Hekmatyar and his allies on the other side.

Civil War

two thirds of Kabul was razed to the ground resembling "an archeological site" with a UN estimated deaths of 50,000 civilians.

Crime:

Torture, including rape of women and children, was reportedly widespread.

Corruption:

Not receiving regular pay from their leaders in Kabul, Mujahideen fighters in the rest of the country turned on the people by establishing check points on highways forcing truck drivers and passengers to pay their way. According to one report, there were 71 such checkpoints between Herat, a western city in Afghanistan, and Chaman, a border city between Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Corruption even in Capital:

Kabul, the city was divided among seven armed factions, with several checkpoints between Shahr-e Naw and Karte-Char, covering a distance of just five miles.

Lawlessness in Qandahar where Taliban came from:

Qandahar where lawlessness had spread to such an extent that shopkeepers reportedly could not keep their goods in shops during the night.

Ethnic Crusade:

Perhaps the lasting legacy of the fighting among factions of the Mujahideen is the deepening ethnic division of Afghanistan. During their struggle to defeat their rivals, Gulbuddin Hekmatyar tried to win over Pashtuns, while Burhanuddin Rabbani and Ahmad Shah Masood appealed to Tajiks. Similarly, Hazara and Uzbek strengthened their militias and fully participated in the fighting, which was deliberately projected as an ethnic crusade.

The Rise of Taliban:

On September 20, 1994, an Afghan family on its way to Herat from Qandahar, was looted, its male members molested, and its female members were raped by gangs manning one of the so-called "check points" along the route. One of the victims escapes and reaches the newly established Taliban compound. The story goes that Mullah Omar and his followers rushed to the scene, capturing the perpetrators, executing them on the spot and then collecting and burying the bodies of the victims. It is this faithful incident, the Taliban claim, that marked the beginning of their campaign in Afghanistan.

Source

reply to post by oozyism


your source

Conclusion


However, they have failed to end the war and their strict policies at home and abroad have resulted in poverty and difficulties to ordinary Afghans and to international isolation of Afghanistan. The Afghan ship, thus, still sails in uncertain waters and Afghans tragedies continue to unfold.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by oozyism

 

You say people have the right to fight to defend themselves if their homeland is attacked, but yet say the United States can't do that very thing.

That makes absolutely no sense.

Your beliefs are just based on Bin Laden doing 9/11 i on the other hand and most people in the world don't believe the official story and a portion of them me included think it was a False Flag black operation.

It will be an almost impossible pill for you to swallow that you are fighting for establishment profit but i'm afraid you are. All the military are cannon fodder this isn't just my opinion.

In Haig's presence, Kissinger referred pointedly to military men as "dumb, stupid animals to be used" as pawns for foreign policy.

You think the soldiers have a righteous purpose and they must continue to think that in order to be controlled but many in the military know the truth and we are counting on them to refuse to engage anymore in wars for profit.

Refusals have happened many times which is why there are so many "resignations' in the upper ranks the establishment are weeding out the men of courage and promoting weak willed.

The modern courage in the military is not to kill millions of brown people but to stand up to the authority that is using you for nefarious deeds, that takes balls of steal.

reply to post by Beefcake


I have already suggested to mikeboyusd, that go join private military contractor groups like blackwater, he would be paid well. with future collapse of USA , paramilitary groups are going to operate alongside UN and chinese troops in 'stabillising' USA . he himself stated that he has a bleak future and many family members have lost jobs .

no use explaining to him , hes propaganda infested and USA numero uno , who can't see whats coming . he will starve like the rest , if i were him , i would have joined blackwater or dynacorp by now .

Originally posted by sadchild01
reply to post by Beefcake

 

I have already suggested to mikeboyusd, that go join private military contractor groups like blackwater, he would be paid well. with future collapse of USA , paramilitary groups are going to operate alongside UN and chinese troops in 'stabillising' USA . he himself stated that he has a bleak future and many family members have lost jobs .

no use explaining to him , hes propaganda infested and USA numero uno , who can't see whats coming . he will starve like the rest , if i were him , i would have joined blackwater or dynacorp by now .

That doesn't make any sense Blackwater and Dyncorp are the pit of evil organizations. You would trade one group with evil intention for another because you get paid better?

We already know how terrible Blackwater is they have even killed US troops in Iraq KNOWING they were US troops.

Dyncorp is even worse they have been implicated and indited on being involved in CHILD KIDNAPPING RINGS. In this video Rumsfeld acknowledges their involvement.



Blackwater and Dyncorp are the epitome of evil imo.



[edit on 5-10-2009 by Beefcake]

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by oozyism

 

your source

Conclusion


However, they have failed to end the war and their strict policies at home and abroad have resulted in poverty and difficulties to ordinary Afghans and to international isolation of Afghanistan. The Afghan ship, thus, still sails in uncertain waters and Afghans tragedies continue to unfold.

Stick to the point:

Do you really believe they wanted power?

reply to post by Beefcake


and the US govt and Israel is a epitome of evil too.

if you lost your job , and had opinion of blackwater /dynacorp you would join it

i know well about dynacorp's sex trafficking ring in bosnia/serbia

I really don't care how many US soldiers died- they all signed their lives away for $40k and a gun. What about the natives of the land they were trying to murder, rape, maim, torture, imprison, enslave and conquer?

Let's turn the tables here for a second:

If Afghanistan invaded The United States, would you guys be sitting in your homes allowing them to roam the streets and hurt your neighbors/family members? Or would you take up arms and defend your nation, tooth & nail?

I'd defend my nation.

Just like they are defending their nation.

We are the invaders. The sooner everyone understands this, the better.

Originally posted by star in a jar
reply to post by sadchild01
It wasn't too long ago when the Russians were throwing almost everything at the Mujahedeen to try take over Afghanistan.

The Americans and Canadians learned nothing from the Russians, who learned nothing from the British, who learned nothing from the Mongols, who learned nothing from Alexander the Great, who died in Afghanistan.

Afghanistan is a graveyard for empires, always will be.

Afghanistan has never been conquered by an enemy nation in its history. Ever.


[edit on 4-10-2009 by star in a jar]

[edit on 4-10-2009 by star in a jar]

You think its about learning? The objective is to have constant war. Afghanistan is a great enemy from that perspective. The myth that all countries want to have peace has to stop. There are great profits to be had from wars.


[edit on 5-10-2009 by Copernicus]

Originally posted by ninecrimes
I really don't care how many US soldiers died- they all signed their lives away for $40k and a gun. What about the natives of the land they were trying to murder, rape, maim, torture, imprison, enslave and conquer?

Let's turn the tables here for a second:

If Afghanistan invaded The United States, would you guys be sitting in your homes allowing them to roam the streets and hurt your neighbors/family members? Or would you take up arms and defend your nation, tooth & nail?

I'd defend my nation.

Just like they are defending their nation.

We are the invaders. The sooner everyone understands this, the better.

Absolutely disgusting and insulting to me and many others that post on this board ..Where are the admins when someone post bs like this .