Originally posted by kshaund
are we to take their word for EVERYTHING? It's all hearsay as it's called - therefore (to me) not credible for me to walk away and say "yes, absolutely true."

Exactly the same can be said for Rutter, but you will try to defend this case no matter what

Originally posted by Aspie

Originally posted by kshaund
are we to take their word for EVERYTHING? It's all hearsay as it's called - therefore (to me) not credible for me to walk away and say "yes, absolutely true."

Exactly the same can be said for Rutter, but you will try to defend this case no matter what

No, what I've said about Rutter is I am open that it is true as it has not been debunked to my satisfaction whatsoever! There has been (to my knowledge) zero analysis of his photograph of a ship, the film of moving the 'alien's' head has been deemed a 'hoax' by people's "opinions" only, not any real investigating. What I am defending is Rutter's right to a fair trial, so to speak, instead of being hung by a mob. He has not had a fair chance with this, not by a long shot.

For example, I have in my possession genuine photographs of a UFO in British Columbia from the early 1960's. I posted them in ATS last year and they were deemed a HOAX off the bat, because no space ship would be angled like that! Oh, really? See, opinions dissed a credible photograph without even so much as asking questions first. Surface Opinions have killed a LOT of VALUABLE information! THAT'S my issue! If you (general you's) can't back up ruining someone's life/reputation, then you (general you's) should keep your opinions and mouth shut unless and until it can be presented as a fact, not opinion!

*sigh*

Oh your not satisfied, ok whoopie doo, it must be true then seeing as your the leading authority on UFO cases.

I couldn't care less. I am satisfied he's been caught out and I don't care what anyone else says.

Of course Rutter could end all speculation and actually provide the hard evidence to back up his claims. Metals samples, tiny amounts of alien blood or even demonstrate this magical bracelet. But of course he can't because it has all conveniently disappeared. Does this at least not set some alarm bells ringing in your head??

Originally posted by Aspie
Oh your not satisfied, ok whoopie doo, it must be true then seeing as your the leading authority on UFO cases.

I couldn't care less. I am satisfied he's been caught out and I don't care what anyone else says.

Of course Rutter could end all speculation and actually provide the hard evidence to back up his claims. Metals samples, tiny amounts of alien blood or even demonstrate this magical bracelet. But of course he can't because it has all conveniently disappeared. Does this at least not set some alarm bells ringing in your head??

No, not producing metal samples etc does not set off alarm bells. What does set off alarm bells is people writing off anyone without any real basis. I've met and worked behind the scenes of many presenters in the UFO circuit world. It's a total mixed bag of credible all the way to the absurd. Like I said, I posted an authentic UFO series of four photos and it was instantly written off by the general audience as a 'hoax'. What does that say about producing credible evidence? It will get written off anyway by people who have no clue in the first place. If someone does have authentic proof, putting it out there risks their lives so it's really a lose/lose scenario for genuine researchers. I've seen things that will never be shown to the general public and for good reason. So no, not producing anything you think should be produced to give credibility to an experience does not set off any alarms.

It's another tired argument - where's your proof? But then any proof presented is written off anyway - so WHY should he (or anyone else) bother? People who are genuinely interested in real truths will get close enough to these people to find out for themselves. The general population (that would be you) are arm chair critics who haven't spent any time in the field doing real research, or any time with other researchers to really find out first hand what is, or isn't credible.

I spent twenty years meeting with authors and researchers personally so I could get my own take, not someone else's. I was in Jim Delitisso's Village Labs and given a full tour by him. I've spoken with Budd Hopkins and Zecharia Sitchin personally as well as dozens of other authors, researchers, psychics and channelers. I've seen good work be totally scoffed at because people have no clue or real interest in "truths".

So I'm not satisfied Rutter's story has been debunked, not by a long shot. I will repeat again, I am open minded and do not just follow the leader's opinions especially when it's just that - an opinion.

Your knee jerk reaction to someone not buying this is a hoax is very typical for someone not interested in facts.

PS - Like I've done with any other story I'm interested in, I contact the person in question and yes, this goes for Rutter too.

[edit on 26-12-2009 by kshaund]

I am very interested in facts, and this case doesn't provide any. The only thing you get with this case is deception and smoke screens. If you want to listen to people like Hopkins, Sitchin, psychics and channellers then you are free to do so, I prefer to live in the real world.

Originally posted by Aspie
I am very interested in facts, and this case doesn't provide any. The only thing you get with this case is deception and smoke screens. If you want to listen to people like Hopkins, Sitchin, psychics and channellers then you are free to do so, I prefer to live in the real world.

I analyzed Hopkins, Sitchin, psychics, channelers etc work, I didn't just listen to them. I have a stack of papers at least two feet high of research papers I did on researchers and their books/lectures over a five year period. What do YOU have? What have YOU done?

Have no idea why you're so edgy about anyone not going along with you (or UFOWatchdog drivel) and instead attack me. Very mature and indicative of your entire approach to "fact" finding. I'm not interested in wasting anymore time with you as you obviously have your own agenda and are not open to other possibilities.

The truth is all I am interested in. Sorry if you took it I was attacking you. It's this drivel of a case I am attacking. People like Rutter, Morton, Michael Horn, Billy Meier etc make me angry because they make a mockery out of a very serious subject, ufology.

OK,....
I am somewhat familiar with this case, having seen the video and photos of it, as well as currently reading his book. I, like other that have posted, am wondering why it's in the hoax section.
I mean, you have to prove it's a hoax, and no one has. A photo of Mr Reed in a child's toy is not proof his case is a hoax. Now, when we examine evidence, like say, Billy Meier's photos and films, we can see the crafts are small models on suspensions, and the WCUFO is obvious.
When I see the Reed Obelisk, it does not look fake to me. And even if something might "look fake" it does not always mean it is. Reed's alien also does not look fake to me. Granted the body looks odd, but we'd have to compare it with a known alien body to have an real opinion based on some fact.

I mean, this case, seems very real to me, or very possibly real.
I don't see it being proven a hoax.

I mean, you have to prove it's a hoax, and no one has.

You are not correct, the burden of proof is on the one making the extraordinary claim.

"Dr. Reed" been debunked into the ground, as good as EACH aspect of that silly story has been proven wrong as being a hoax including his name, fake identity etc..etc..

Up to date, the "Dr." could not come up with ONE PIECE of proof even remotely supporting his own thesis or single aspects of it.

In addition to that it was already proven that his name, identity etc. was all fake and lies PLUS the total lack of whatsoever supporting proof - there is also the CLASSIC signs of a con/scam for monetary gain like appearing on the art bell show first, etc..etc...

You are the typical example of being so "brainwashed" (as for lack of other words) that you take rather the hard and difficult route to cling to a belief AGAINST ANY LOGIC, while already been proven false 1000x over..and STILL think/wish there must be something to it.

Furthermore you use an absurd and reverse logic

>>If something does look fake it does not mean it is<<

Wrong. It quite often is. Otherwise it wouldn't look fake. What you deem so impressive and "quite real" is something a 12 year old can reproduce easily with nothing more than cardboard and a stick...the same applies for the alien.

As for ufowatchdog....i only have been on that site once and overflew it quickly...but i whole-heartedly agree with their list and judgement of certain people.

If you look at the BIG scams and fakes, whether being intentional disinfo or simply for monetary gain, its always those same names popping up which play some mysterious role in it....and i observe this for some decades already.

Sadly, as you prove you are unable to recognize even the most obvious hoaxes and fakes...so i dont think there is a point pointing this out to you.