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Could you wish an ETERNITY of hell on someone?

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posted on Oct, 6 2009 @ 08:29 AM
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I wouldn't want to.

People consign themselves to heaven or hell...not you or me.




posted on Oct, 6 2009 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by Bombeni

Originally posted by Donnie Darko
A lot of people who consider themselves Christians have no problem with God sending non-believers and sinners to eternal suffering. This has always bothered me immensely, that God sends anyone to Hell, I can't think of a crime that deserves infinite punishment, and many Christians believe even not believing is a crime worthy of eternal Hell.



Does anyone else see the paradox here?

Athiests, or non-Christians as a whole, complain about Christians who attempt to teach them about salvation. Yet this op is saying we wish sinners to hell? Which is it? Is evangelizing the same as wishing someone to hell? How much sense does that make?

And, here is the real irony that I cannot get straight: IF you people don't believe in Christ or the fact that belief of Him will save you from hell, WHY are you concerned that anyone even COULD wish you to hell? No Christ, no hell, right?

I know that's a lot of questions, I also know there won't be one straight answer to any of them.

Athiests are like dogs chasing their tails. You'll never catch it like that.

Oh, and one other little small detail. Humans can't wish or send anyone to hell. Only God can do that. But not to worry, if God doesn't exist. Right?



[edit on 6-10-2009 by Bombeni]


Christians do not worship the Good One, they worship Christianity.



posted on Oct, 6 2009 @ 02:02 PM
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reply to post by Psychonaughty
 



Err, is that the straight answer I said I wouldn't get?



posted on Oct, 6 2009 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by Bombeni
Does anyone else see the paradox here?

Athiests, or non-Christians as a whole, complain about Christians who attempt to teach them about salvation. Yet this op is saying we wish sinners to hell? Which is it? Is evangelizing the same as wishing someone to hell? How much sense does that make?


The OP said he was a Christian. Why are you intermingling the two?



And, here is the real irony that I cannot get straight: IF you people don't believe in Christ or the fact that belief of Him will save you from hell, WHY are you concerned that anyone even COULD wish you to hell? No Christ, no hell, right?


Perhaps it truly is the thought that counts in this theoretical situation. But in fact, I'm sure it's the doctrine of eternal punishment that bothers people more than actually being "wished" to hell. Being wished to hell by a stranger is just kind of irksome. When someone wishes you to hell, you pretty much know you're not dealing with a kind and loving person.



I know that's a lot of questions, I also know there won't be one straight answer to any of them.

Athiests are like dogs chasing their tails. You'll never catch it like that.

Oh, and one other little small detail. Humans can't wish or send anyone to hell. Only God can do that. But not to worry, if God doesn't exist. Right?
[edit on 6-10-2009 by Bombeni]



posted on Oct, 6 2009 @ 04:37 PM
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Originally posted by Donnie Darko
A lot of people who consider themselves Christians have no problem with God sending non-believers and sinners to eternal suffering. This has always bothered me immensely, that God sends anyone to Hell, I can't think of a crime that deserves infinite punishment, and many Christians believe even not believing is a crime worthy of eternal Hell.



God doesn't send people to hell, for crimes. In fact, God doesn't really send anyone to hell period. Hell is the place prepared for satan and the people who heard the Gospel of Jesus and scoffed at it. Hell is being separated from God, after the final tribulation on earth. No one is in hell now, not even satan or his demons. RIght now, people who died refusing to accept Jesus as Lord are in a place called Purgatory. I believe Christ went there when He was on the Cross to witness to those who were already dead. Hopefully, those people whom He witnessed to will shake some sense into the people who go there, before the final judgement.

Was that too much information?



posted on Oct, 6 2009 @ 05:02 PM
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Originally posted by Bombeni

Originally posted by Donnie Darko
A lot of people who consider themselves Christians have no problem with God sending non-believers and sinners to eternal suffering. This has always bothered me immensely, that God sends anyone to Hell, I can't think of a crime that deserves infinite punishment, and many Christians believe even not believing is a crime worthy of eternal Hell.



God doesn't send people to hell, for crimes. In fact, God doesn't really send anyone to hell period. Hell is the place prepared for satan and the people who heard the Gospel of Jesus and scoffed at it. Hell is being separated from God, after the final tribulation on earth. No one is in hell now, not even satan or his demons. RIght now, people who died refusing to accept Jesus as Lord are in a place called Purgatory. I believe Christ went there when He was on the Cross to witness to those who were already dead. Hopefully, those people whom He witnessed to will shake some sense into the people who go there, before the final judgement.

Was that too much information?


Religion, a core of truth floating in a sea of perversions.

'God' does not care what it is that you believe, it is your journey you have free will to do as you please under Divine Law, you don't get sent to a fiery inferno (Lol) for eternity for not putting your faith in a human. The lesson that it's trying to teach is you get what you deserve, pure Kharma, but Kharma is alot broader and harsher than ones like to believe.

If someone dies a slow painful death from cancer it is deserved to teach a lesson, it looks harsh, but in the big picture it is neccesary.

Idolising Jesus of Nazerath, a human, over the Superior One is an abomination.

There is no "Judgement day" the judgement is on you now, you are the judge, for your decisions only hurt you.

Don't wait for a saviour to come, cause it is not coming, there would be no lessoned learned if that was so.



[edit on 6-10-2009 by Psychonaughty]



posted on Oct, 6 2009 @ 05:02 PM
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Double post.

[edit on 6-10-2009 by Psychonaughty]



posted on Oct, 6 2009 @ 05:08 PM
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Here's what Jesus said about it. Now whether or not this was only a parable is up to you guys to debate about.

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

[edit on 6-10-2009 by theyreadmymind]



posted on Oct, 6 2009 @ 07:40 PM
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Originally posted by theyreadmymind

Originally posted by Locoman8
No eternal suffering... but there is eternal "non-existence". Read Malachi chapter 4. It's a good example of what happens in hellfire. The sinners will become the ashes beneath our feet. It's not hard to find these facts if people will stop listening to their "fire and brimstone" preachers and read the bible.


How do you reconcile that with Revelation 20:10:

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.




This is a simple answer. The word "are" if you notice, is in italics in your bible. This means the word was added by the translators and was not a greek or hebrew word. The koine greek used in the NT does not use adjectives such as "are", "were", "is", etc... The translators basically had an already determined belief that hell was an everlasting punishment and placed "are" after "the beast and false prophet" where some more recent translations such as the NIV read like this...

"....where the beast and false prophet had been thrown..." And as far as the "tormented day and night forever and ever." it is speaking of Satan and his fallen angels (demons) who are spirit beings and not physical beings such as the beast and false prophet were.

I guess the info I gave is not worthy enough to be the truth though the information is right there. Don't let the english translations decieve you.



posted on Oct, 6 2009 @ 07:51 PM
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Originally posted by theyreadmymind
Here's what Jesus said about it. Now whether or not this was only a parable is up to you guys to debate about.

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

[edit on 6-10-2009 by theyreadmymind]



Everlasting punishment in this context does not mean torment and suffering. The punishment is complete non-existence with no hope of being resurrected. It says, the righteous will go into life eternal. If someone was being punished for eternity, wouldn't that be an everlasting life as well? Just one in torment? The opposite of everlasting life is everlasting death. That's what the second death is. That's what the lake of fire is. Read Revelation 21:8...


"But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

The only evidence a "fire and brimstone" christian throws out is the parable of Lazarus and the Rich man which is nothing more than a parable explaining that self-righteous jews such as the sauducees and pharisees of Jesus' time will be at the mercy of the poor when Christ returns as the poor were at the mercy of the jewish leaders of the time.



posted on Oct, 6 2009 @ 08:00 PM
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I wish the church would bring back the concept of the "Abominible Fancy". I'd run back to the fold in a heartbeat.



posted on Oct, 6 2009 @ 08:36 PM
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Originally posted by Locoman8
I guess the info I gave is not worthy enough to be the truth though the information is right there. Don't let the english translations decieve you.


It matters not to me. The fact that you don't think God would endlessly punish someone doesn't change the fact that Christians fill innocent and impressionable young minds with it. I find that deplorable, the scars it causes and endless torment of children. If you really believe eternal suffering is not in the bible, why don't you go argue with some Christians in a Christian forum so you can stop the damage before it's done and where it's done? Why do you allow Christians to teach this? Remember, this thread is about people who "wish" eternal damnation on others. Translation: It's about what people do who actually believe in it.



posted on Oct, 6 2009 @ 08:47 PM
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The answer is no, really. We're all interconnected so any one part of the whole being in hell would be imperfect and hell for the whole. I asked this question when I was younger. Heaven is supposed to have no suffering or pain. Knowing everything once in the afterlife, I'd know also that there are people in hell. Just knowing that would cause me eternal suffering since I find the idea horrible. Unless God forces me to change my mind, which wouldn't happen. There can't be 100% happiness if you know others are suffering.

I was raised Christian but the whole idea of hell isn't something Jesus taught. He might have mentioned "lake of fire" but that could be anything. If there was a hell, Jesus needed to say. "Okay guys, I'm going to tell you about hell. It is in fact a real place, it isn't a metaphor or anything like that." ect. The idea of hell is what church leaders "told" us later to believe, so it's separate from its source.



posted on Oct, 6 2009 @ 09:47 PM
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reply to post by theyreadmymind
 


I do take these cases to the faith and theology boards on bts all the time. If you take a gander there or look on my profile for threads I've started, you'll see that I'm very much involved in the exposing of lies in christianity and revealing the biblical truths. I use this thread as an opportunity to show those who do believe in the everlasting torment that the bible speaks otherwise. God is not about torment. He's not like a kid with a magnafying glass on an ant bed waiting to watch the ants burn and suffer. In fact, God gives us every opportunity to save ourselves from the 2nd death. Our earthly death is our punishment of sin. Once that punishment has been paid, our resurrection is our clean slate. If we accept God at judgement, we will be saved from the lake of fire. If we deny Him in His presence, we will be sentenced to death by hellfire. No everlasting torment involved. Peace be unto you my friend.



posted on Oct, 6 2009 @ 10:11 PM
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reply to post by Locoman8
 


Well, good then I'm pleased. What bothers me is there are plenty of you out there who seem to "know" that God wouldn't send people to hell for eternity, and every time I see a Christian using this doctrine to instill fear in people, I never see any Christians speak out and say, "This is wrong, stop filling people's heads with fear and nonsense." I'm always alone in doing it or alongside atheists. The only time any Christians seem to take a stand is when it comes up in threads like this when someone points out the sheer inhumanity of it. Then Christians seem to pop out of nowhere with arguments.

In other words, when it's a child's mind or even an innocent person who is the victim, nothing is said. But when the bible or Christianity is the victim they stand up and defend.

[edit on 6-10-2009 by theyreadmymind]



posted on Oct, 6 2009 @ 11:01 PM
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Originally posted by Locoman8
Everlasting punishment in this context does not mean torment and suffering. The punishment is complete non-existence with no hope of being resurrected. It says, the righteous will go into life eternal. If someone was being punished for eternity, wouldn't that be an everlasting life as well? Just one in torment? The opposite of everlasting life is everlasting death. That's what the second death is. That's what the lake of fire is. Read Revelation 21:8...


BTW, I didn't put Jesus' parable up there wholly because of the "everlasting punishment" part of it, though I was curious how you would reconcile that. I was actually putting it up there to contrast it with the claims that hell is only for people who refuse Jesus and wanted to see what those who believe that did with that. It seems to me there's more to it than just accepting a free gift of salvation. As the parable said, "Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

I would be interested in hearing your rebuttal however to Adam Clarke's commentary.
www.godrules.net...
Scroll down to Verse 46.
He too makes the contrast between everlasting punishment and the glory of the righteous, only he uses it in a different way.

[edit on 6-10-2009 by theyreadmymind]



posted on Oct, 6 2009 @ 11:48 PM
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if i were in a position to believe in hell, i could not send anyone there. who am i (even though i'm a god) to infringe on free will because i think you screwed up?



posted on Oct, 7 2009 @ 08:20 AM
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Originally posted by theyreadmymind

Originally posted by Locoman8
Everlasting punishment in this context does not mean torment and suffering. The punishment is complete non-existence with no hope of being resurrected. It says, the righteous will go into life eternal. If someone was being punished for eternity, wouldn't that be an everlasting life as well? Just one in torment? The opposite of everlasting life is everlasting death. That's what the second death is. That's what the lake of fire is. Read Revelation 21:8...


BTW, I didn't put Jesus' parable up there wholly because of the "everlasting punishment" part of it, though I was curious how you would reconcile that. I was actually putting it up there to contrast it with the claims that hell is only for people who refuse Jesus and wanted to see what those who believe that did with that. It seems to me there's more to it than just accepting a free gift of salvation. As the parable said, "Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

I would be interested in hearing your rebuttal however to Adam Clarke's commentary.
www.godrules.net...
Scroll down to Verse 46.
He too makes the contrast between everlasting punishment and the glory of the righteous, only he uses it in a different way.

[edit on 6-10-2009 by theyreadmymind]


I see what you mean and actually I have wondered about that before; I am no theologian so I cannot really comment about it; I have wondered at times, is just believing that Jesus was born of a virgin, died and was resurrected for our sins enough? I want to believe that because I am a sinner. I am not a bad person, but I look back at my life and there were so many missed opportunities to do selfless acts, like the ones Jesus commanded us to do. I will never actually feel "worthy" to enter the Kingdom of God, I know myself well enough now to know I will never feel I am good enough. I just try to count on the power of His Grace that the bible talks about. Then too, I think about my own kids and how they could never do anything bad enough that would cause me to reject them.



posted on Oct, 7 2009 @ 01:02 PM
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Originally posted by theyreadmymind

Originally posted by Locoman8
Everlasting punishment in this context does not mean torment and suffering. The punishment is complete non-existence with no hope of being resurrected. It says, the righteous will go into life eternal. If someone was being punished for eternity, wouldn't that be an everlasting life as well? Just one in torment? The opposite of everlasting life is everlasting death. That's what the second death is. That's what the lake of fire is. Read Revelation 21:8...


BTW, I didn't put Jesus' parable up there wholly because of the "everlasting punishment" part of it, though I was curious how you would reconcile that. I was actually putting it up there to contrast it with the claims that hell is only for people who refuse Jesus and wanted to see what those who believe that did with that. It seems to me there's more to it than just accepting a free gift of salvation. As the parable said, "Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."

I would be interested in hearing your rebuttal however to Adam Clarke's commentary.
www.godrules.net...
Scroll down to Verse 46.
He too makes the contrast between everlasting punishment and the glory of the righteous, only he uses it in a different way.

[edit on 6-10-2009 by theyreadmymind]



Adam Clarke did a horrible job trying to explain Matthew 25.



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