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Christians and Halloween.

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posted on Oct, 3 2009 @ 08:15 AM
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An internet resource for part the diversity of world harvest festivals is:

www.harvestfestivals.net...

Unless pagan is read in its offensive meaning as any and every religion other than the Abrahamics, the indigenous peoples of Australia, East Asia, North America, the Pacific Islands, Southern Africa, South America, and South Asia were not pagans. Yet, we find harvest festivals everywhere we find people.

The Jewish people surely were and are not pagans, under even the most tortured stretch of the term. Jewish folk traditionally celebrate Sukkot (sometimes transliterated as Succoth). It is their harvest festival.

To associate the human institution of the harvest festival as being especially the parcohial practices of Europeans before they embraced Christianity is silly. To imagine that pre-Christian Europeans generally celebrated their harvest holidays according to the Roman solar calendar, as reformed several times in both the pre-Christian and Christian Eras, is sillier still. That Europeans generally would call all their many and distinct native festivals by the Irish people's name for theirs, samhain, is priceless.

Nobody now living knows the algorithm for scheduling the celebration of samhain. The Irish did not commit ritual and religious lore to writing, until after their bloodless national conversion to Christianity. And then, when they did, recording the new ways rather than the old ways received priority.

October 31st of the modern international calendar? Sure. That's as good a guess as any. So is November 5th, mid-autumn day, if you like a solar calendar. Or any of the full moons of September, October, or November (the 4th, tomorrow, and the 2nd, respectively, this year), if you prefer something lunar.

The OP will do what she wishes. Why she would willingly acquiesce in the puffery of a religion not her own, that "they" have "originated" a universal human holiday eludes me. I understand that her mother had concerns about Hallowe'en. That's good enough reason for her mother to choose as she did.

But "Any modern First World celebration is a pagan celebration stolen by Christians" is a meme, web widsom, that sooner or later Christians will reject for the falsehood that it so plainly is. The sooner the better, in my opinion, speaking as someone with no dog in the fight. (Well, in the interest of full disclosure, I am Irish... my ancestors were pagans, and my ancestors were Christians... in one generation, the same ancestors were both.)

[edit on 3-10-2009 by eight bits]

[edit on 3-10-2009 by eight bits]




posted on Oct, 3 2009 @ 08:53 AM
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Ashley, I think it depends on the temperament of your children, whether they are likely to hold it against you and rebel or whether they can recognise wisdom when they see it.

I don't have kids yet, but what I'm about to say stems from remembering what a rebellious child I was...

My mom was very strict. No Halloween (although here in South Africa it's not such a big thing - back in the 80's and 90's that is). No watching horror movies. No listening to heavy metal. No sleeping over at other kids houses. No dressing all in black. No doing unladylike things. Only pink curtains allowed in bedroom. blah blah blah.

As a result I resented her. I felt that I was missing out so I became a goth, had lesbian relationships, smoked dope, only wore black (even to the point that every pair of panties I owned was black). In short I rebelled.

At some point in time, I recognised that a lot of what I was doing wasn't because I enjoyed it, so much as getting back at my mom. I came right. I don't think all with my temperament would eventually see the light as well though, so that's why I say it depends on your children's temperaments.

If they are likely to take your word for something and not feel like they are missing out, then avoiding Halloween is fine. If not, then I recommend letting them go and trick or treat but explain to them why you feel they way you do about it. Let them know that it is not ideal to go about romanticising the dark side as it were.

It's a very difficult question you pose because we all react to rules differently. You know your children best, so whatever you decide will be in their best interests.



posted on Oct, 3 2009 @ 10:25 AM
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Thanks to everyone who has replied so far. I have read every single comment to this thread and am contemplating everything even if I don't respond individually.


reply to post by drevill
 


My grandparents did that, too. They would hand out Christian tracts in place of candy. lol



posted on Oct, 3 2009 @ 10:49 AM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


Here is my last ditch effort to try and convince you that Halloween is not an evil holiday.

Is candy evil?

If candy isn't evil than you should let your children go out and beg for it.


Back home the entire town would converge on downtown and all the children would go round and round getting sacks full of candy. It was more of a time for everyone to get together and have a good time in costume than anything pagan or satanic.





[edit on 10/3/2009 by whatukno]



posted on Oct, 3 2009 @ 12:11 PM
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The kids should be able to celebrate halloween. I am christian and raised with religuois parents. They let me. It was a time for me to have fun. Since u werent allowed as a child, u should definently let ur child. It is an experience that shouldnt be taken away. Besides, it isnt really a pagan thing, by now. It is mostly a money making industry. When i celebrate halloween i want trick or treating and to church get to gethers.
But this is coming from some one that is 15. So, you know, make ur own desicion. instead of halloween and candy and costumes, u could make a wonderfully good dinner in the name of the Lord. You could sit down with ur child and watch a movie. It mostly depends on how old ur child is.



posted on Oct, 3 2009 @ 01:35 PM
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heres the truth,for someone this maybe a pagan wicka moloch worshipping day,but for me its a dresscool and eat candy till you puke..and try to get a girl,hang with ur best friends day.
and if they think im worshiping moloch...well i dont..so im not really worshiping moloch,i just have a good time



posted on Oct, 3 2009 @ 02:00 PM
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(FYI: this is coming from a non-Christian, semi-agnostic PoV)

If you're worried about your child's fate as a Christian, it would be wise to think ahead to when they're teenagers.

When children become teenagers, they will start to question EVERYTHING(including religion). They will think back to what the religion has done for them, and if they were denied something as silly as Halloween, that will ferment in their mind and could poison them against your religion(and maybe even you).

The simple fact is that regardless of the origins, or if it's still a holy day for some; the traditions that survive in mainstream culture are purely SECULAR, and meant for fun. Halloween holds some of my favorite holiday memories, and I can't imagine how much I'd resent my parents if they denied me something that was just pure, silly fun.

In short: you'd be denying your children common childhood memories. Let them have some fun; dressing up and gorging on candy for one day a year won't hurt them.

[edit on 3-10-2009 by Core90]



posted on Oct, 3 2009 @ 04:27 PM
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I would say that as long as you're not encouraging your kids to worship nature or participate in some of the more shady things that happen on Halloween, you're in the clear. It's just good ol' fashioned fun; unless you're sacrificing a goat to Baal or something. Not to mention it's an American tradition. Running around dressed up as a ghost, getting a pillowcase filled with Milky Ways and Nutter-Butters, and going into a "haunted house", isn't going to really "defile" kids.

You can even get in on the action by scaring them half to death!

As for "Hallelujah parties", I personally think they're just as silly as some "Christian" music.



posted on Oct, 3 2009 @ 08:54 PM
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Ashley as a christian I have never celebrated Halloween, I won't lie it wasn't easy not celebrating it as a child. Only when I got older did I fully grasp why my parents restricted my potential fun.


Halloween has origins in the ancient Celtic festival known as Samhain [pronounced: sow- wen] (Irish pronunciation: [ˈsˠaunʲ]; from the Old Irish samhain, possibly derived from Gaulish samonios). The festival of Samhain is a celebration of the end of the harvest season in Gaelic culture, and is sometimes regarded as the "Celtic New Year".Traditionally, the festival was a time used by the ancient Celtic pagans to take stock of supplies and slaughter livestock for winter stores. The ancient Celts believed that on October 31st, now known as Halloween, the boundary between the living and the deceased dissolved, and the dead become dangerous for the living by causing problems such as sickness or damaged crops. The festivals would frequently involve bonfires, into which the bones of slaughtered livestock were thrown. Costumes and masks being worn at Halloween goes back to the Celtic traditions of attempting to copy the evil spirits or placate them, in Scotland for instance where the dead were impersonated by young men with masked, veiled or blackened faces, dressed in white.


Should I have children a will restrict them as well in this area, and I am sure they won't like it either, just like I didn't.

But I will say what most Christians dare not, Halloween when supported and celebrated, is a very cleverly hidden pagan idolatry via interfaith, even if you don't view it that way, it is what it is.

Because this effects children more than adults this bible verse comes to mind

1 John 5:21

My little children, guard yourselves from idols.


Then
1 Corinthians 10:7

Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: "The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in pagan revelry."


A fellow christian once told me about a discussion they had with a Wiccan Witch about Halloween, she said "we laugh when Christians celebrate Halloween because that's our special pagan day, and they have no clue."


[edit on 3-10-2009 by Blue_Jay33]



posted on Oct, 3 2009 @ 10:40 PM
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Ashley,

I think you are good. He knows your heart and mind and in this world of stress, I think he prefers smiles over frowns.

And another thing - out of thousands of Near Death Experiences I've studied, there is not one single account of Jesus/the light wagging his finger at anyone during their life review, concerning Halloween. Never.

My kids are 18 & 22, so they don't dress up no more, but when they did it was always a time of fun and great joy. When my daughter was in gradeschool, I would either make cupcakes for the kids in her class or I would hand out party bags to them all. I loved seeing their smiles.

Today, me and my husband went on a hot date to the pumpkin patch and he bought me a 65 pound pumpkin. The kids may be getting older but I still like to decorate.

Whatever you decide to do or not do, just be content enough with it, that you can maintain a smile!!

Ashley what do you think God thought of mine and my husbands date today? There were a million other things, that we could have opted to do. We could have waited and went out tonight and I could have gotten lush-drunk and it could have been me he was packing out of a bar instead of a pumpkin out of that patch.

There are many ways one could look at this.Lol


[edit on 3-10-2009 by Myrtales Instinct]



posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 03:49 AM
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A fellow christian once told me about a discussion they had with a Wiccan Witch about Halloween, she said "we laugh when Christians celebrate Halloween because that's our special pagan day, and they have no clue."

This is an example of the sort of neopagan bullpuffery I am writing about here. Wicca has its origins in mid 20th Century readings of mainly 19th Century and later compilations of folklore:

www.religioustolerance.org...

It owes as much as to the assumptions and perspective of the compilers as to the stories being compiled.

Wicca does, arguably, incorporate a version of "The Perennial Philosophy." That is Aldous Huxley's searchable name for certain core ideas that occur throughout many, many religions, Christianity included, and is found in secular philosophical systems, too.

Nobody owns the Perennial Philosophy. Nobody can steal it from anybody else. Nobody can reclaim it from anybody else, either.

If some Wiccan laughs at Christians dressing up in lurid costumes, then this is good. We all need some levity, and fostering laughter is one of the intended effects of dressing up. Also good for Wiccans if they make a special day of it. Everybody deserves a holiday now and then, and anybody can make any day a holiday for themselves.

Personally, I am especially fond of St Patrick's Day. I am not unmindful of its proximity to the vernal equinox. It is, therefore, a planting festival. So, my pagan ancestors celebrated "Saint Patrick's Day" as surely as they celebrated "Hallowe'en."

But it is equally obvious that they did not celebrate anything remotely like what I celebrate today, but rather celebrated something else on the same day, or within a few days of it. This is obvious. They didn't know what a "saint" was, whether Patrick in particular, or all of them together, as with Hallowe'en.

No doubt, the ancestors wore something green on Patrick's day, just as I wear something green today. For them, that bit of green was an emblem of the Earth's renewal. I know it as a reminder of the political and military troubles that gave birth to the Irish Republic. My descendants will associate it with the phrase Kiss me, I'm Irish..

That is the way of all symbols, everywhere and always. They put on and cast off meanings like we change clothes. Just as nobody owns the Perennial Philosophy, nobody owns symbols. Nobody gets to insist that any symbol "really" wears one suit rather another, least of all because they fancy themselves to be the heirs of some earlier tailor.

To hell with all of this high-minded stuff. If Christians boycott Hallowe'en, then the neo-pagans win. It's as simple as that.



posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 09:56 AM
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reply to post by eight bits
 





If Christians boycott Hallowe'en, then the neo-pagans win. It's as simple as that.


No, it's the exact opposite, they lose, as does the the backer of said holiday.

I read once that the true origins of Halloween go much farther back than most people realize. The article brought out that Halloween was established after Noah's flood as soon as paganism returned to the earth the fallen angels or demons mourned the loss of there hybrid sons lost at the flood the Nephilim. So they created the equivalent of October 31 for some sort of memorial anniversary to mourn the loss of there children at the flood.

Genesis 6


2 The sons of God saw that the daughters of other humans were beautiful. So they married any woman they chose...The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, as well as later, when the sons of God slept with the daughters of other humans and had children by them. These children were famous long ago.


Where do you think the Greek legend Hercules comes from, half-man half-god/angel. These guys actually existed, but they were an abomination to God so he brought the flood to wipe them out.

These angels/demons are mentioned later again in the bible

2 Peter 2:4&5



4 For if God didn't spare angels when they sinned, but cast them down to Tartarus, and committed them to pits of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and didn't spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah with seven others, a preacher of righteousness, when he brought a flood on the world of the ungodly;

And
Jude 1:6

6 And angels--those who did not keep the position originally assigned to them, but deserted their own proper abode--He reserves in everlasting bonds, in darkness, in preparation for the judgment of the great day.

And
Revelation 12:7

7Then war broke out in heaven; Michael and his angels went forth to battle with the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought. 8But they were defeated, and there was no room found for them in heaven any longer. 9And the huge dragon was cast down and out--that age-old serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, he who is the seducer (deceiver) of all humanity the world over; he was forced out and down to the earth, and his angels were flung out along with him.


I am sorry, but it's time to be blunt here, Halloween is the most demonically inspired holiday celebrated today.

And yes most people don't view it that way at all today, as brought out by the comments in this thread.

But let me ask all Christians that view this thread a simple question.

Do you think the Demons perspective of it has changed?



posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 10:47 AM
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Hi Ashley. I'm a Christian with 5 kids and there's a lot of so-called "holy days" (holidays) we didn't celebrate. In order for the kids to not feel left out, we had family days instead. We'd get together as a family and enjoy each others company with lots of food and presents. Simple things. It wasn't just on x-mas either.

It doesn't matter what anybody says about this holiday. If Christ is touching your conscience about it, you need to pay attention to that. There are a lot of worldly things that aren't necessarily "evil" or that even have pagan origins and we may even be allowed to get away with doing those things as baby Christians.

But as we grow in Christ He touches on more things that are not of Him and we are to let those things go. When my sister asked if it was ok for her to wear make-up as a Christian I told her that it is neither good nor bad in and of itself. Just keep praying while getting ready for work and Christ will let you know if the make-up is allowed or not.

Same with so-called holy days. Just keep praying while you're shopping for costumes or buying big bags of candy and Christ will let you know if it's allowed or not. "All things are lawful but not all things are expedient."



posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 10:56 AM
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Another point that even non-Christians should be able to relate to: as parents we spend all year telling our kids not to take candy from strangers and then on Halloween we make a special event of doing exactly what we scold them for-taking candy from strangers.

Either you allow them to take candy from strangers or you don't.



posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 01:17 PM
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The way I see it, Halloween is not much different from Christmas in some aspects. There are the religious origins(whether Pagan or Christian), and then there is the modern secular version which recognizes no particular religious or spiritual origin. Since you would only be observing the secular version of Halloween, I see no harm in it.

Personally, I've always liked Halloween. The costumes look cool and so do all of the carved pumpkins that people use as decorations. Since I don't recognize any Pagan deities as any type of authority in my life, then I don't feel that I am paying them any homage by wearing a black hooded cloak while standing on my front porch handing out candy to the neighborhood kids. Then again...I've often been accused of being a bad or lukewarm Christian over the fact that I'm one of those heavy metal headbanging, horror movie loving dudes who dresses in "too much black" all year around. So PLEASE take my opinion with a grain of salt and listen to what your conscience tells you.



[edit on 10/4/2009 by Lightmare]



posted on Oct, 10 2009 @ 01:29 AM
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HI I am a Christian and I want to tell you that it is ok to celebrate Halloween. The meaning of the day has changed from that of evil worshiping, to dressing up and scoring free candy. Yes, some people still do evil practices on that day but most people do not. You just need to ask your self what are you celebrating; things like vampires and werewolves don't have to be tied to Satan. Not to say that you shouldn't be careful of some things, but a day is not inherently evil, and nether is a made up creature. It can be evil if the things it encourages are evi,l However nowadays the meaning behind most off the old stuff has changed. Evil is not a force opposing God but rather it is the lack of God in one's heart. Do you follow God? Are you celebrating a holiday of pagans? or are you celebrating a day to have fun and eat candy. If anything: one of our duty's as Christians is to try to encourage people to follow God. One way of doing that is to take over pagan holidays and change their meaning so that the amount of evil done on those days will be lessened. celebrate it a way that would please God. I am sure that so long as you don't do anything immoral and you are having fun, God will be happy. Change the meaning of bad things so that they can become good things. Also think of God as the perfect Father, one who loves you, cares for you, protects you, and wants you to be happy. Pray about the matter and ask God what you should do? Then be open to whatever answer He gives you.



posted on Oct, 10 2009 @ 10:07 AM
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reply to post by AshleyD
 


My advice is to ALWAYS heed to the conviction in your heart, forget what the 'world' thinks of you, remember you are not of this world, if you were the world would love you.

Listen and obey/submit to your conviction, the Holy Spirit is never wrong.



posted on Oct, 10 2009 @ 06:43 PM
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Originally posted by schrodingers dog
reply to post by AshleyD
 


If I may interject as a non practicing christian ...

Aren't Christmass and Easter also pagan inspired holidays?

If it's not disrespectful, I am curious as to what the difference would be.


(don't say my avatar is the answer)



[edit on 2 Oct 2009 by schrodingers dog]


Christmas, is another puzzler, because, that's the day of Y'shuas conception, and we don't really celebrate that.

Easter is a mistranslation, it should have been passover!

I don't do halloween anymore, and I don't have anyone come to the door, no stupid lights up or morbid "fun" stuff put up either, not on Christmas either, not even a tree for quite a long time, no kids tho.

Christians are supposed to be celebrating the festivals of the OT, it's not just for jews, and I'd rather not discuss them.



posted on Oct, 13 2009 @ 12:49 PM
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I was raised as a catholic.

Halloween was just a day to dress up, and have fun, at least when i was a kid.

i don't see any issues with Halloween and Christianity. the catholic school i went to didn't care if kids dressed up for Halloween, they actually supported it.

But nowadays, i do sometimes dress up for Halloween, as religious figures. (for fun of course)

this year im gonna be Jesus! my sister who is christian, supports the idea, and offered to find me 12 little apostles. which should be interesting.

Look at my inverted pic. i think i fit the bill.
i306.photobucket.com...


[edit on 10/13/2009 by ugie1028]



posted on Oct, 13 2009 @ 03:02 PM
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I really see nothing wrong with you letting your children enjoy the holiday. I really have a difficult time seeing him being overly upset over allowing your child's imagination and life experiences to expand.

The question I would have to ask myself if i were you is, Are my reservations my own or is my sheltered upbringing, church group or other social group trying to color my own decision?

Ultimately it comes down to you and how you reconcile yourself to the holiday. What is it to you? Are you planning on contacting spirits and raising the dead?

Do you think that your child dressed up like sponge bob square pants is really going to confuse the "demons & spirits" that are loosed on the earth for the night?

Or when you look out your front door do you just see the cute little kids trying to get all the free candy they can carry before they get to tired to go on any further?


It is an odd holiday that really has no more meaning than that which you assign to it. It is evident your a fairly sharp woman and that your children will be raised with the knowledge of your beliefs. As long as you communicate your belief on the holiday and what it represents to you, you will be fine.

My advice take your children trick or treating, and when you get home thank God for good neighbors and a safe fun night and lots of candy.



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