Debtors revolt? Get real...

I've heard quite a bit lately about the new "debtors' revolt." I've seen Youtube videos and posts in discussion forums about how the bad bankers are making everybody's life miserable, so people should not pay their debts.

I'm not stupid and I'm not heartless. I realize that some people have accumulated debt due to difficult circumstances. I'm not talking about those people. Those people are not the majority of Americans. Most people are in debt because of greed, stupidity, and a lack of self-control leading to the demand for instant gratification.

People complain about the banks, as though some bank representative were standing by them every time they made a credit card purchase, forcing them to take on debt for big-screen television sets and countless other useless trinkets.

The problem here, people, is NOT the big ugly banks. Yes, bankers are right up there with lawyers and politicians in my book: all cads, liars, thieves. general b@%^@$ds. What else would you expect from them? Fish are wet. Crap stinks. Moneylenders are thieves. What's new about that?

See, my family and I live in a 25 year old mobile home that we bought for $7,000. It's clean, comfortable and safe. Mostly, it's MINE. I don't owe a penny on it.

I drive a 1994 Dodge pick-up, my wife a 1998 Honda Accord. Both are in good repair, dependable and presentable. I own them, too.

I don't watch television, but my family does. On a 21" analog box that we bought second hand. I own it, too. It receives through a $40.00 digital-to-analog converter box.

The computer on which I read ATS was cobbled together from bits and pieces of older discarded or second hand computers, and I"m running Ubuntu, a free OS, and its accompany open-source free software. The box is not state-of-the-art (though the software is), but it is more than adequate for what we need.

I am in my mid-forties and I've always lived my life this way. I have always lived well within my means. I have never abused credit. I have never been in debt for any extended period. The only two vehicles I bought on a loan were paid off early, as well the first home we had.

Now, people like me who have been responsible and careful with our money will suffer along with all the idiots who ran around for years buy CHINESE CRAP and over-priced, over-sized houses on credit because they had to have it now.

If you must take some kind of action to protect yourself, do it. Try to lower your interest rates. If your creditors won't listen, then take whatever steps you need to to protect your family from being thrown out into the street.

Buy, you are probably in debt because you were irresponsible and undisciplined. You are not a hero and this is not a "debtors' revolt." It's no more than the logical results of years of thoughtless greed that was encouraged by a sick, materialistic consumer culture.

So, for goodness' sake, don't act like you're some kind of hero!!!!!! Don't act like you are carrying out some noble charge against the great enemy. Just get on with life and take care of your business. And shut up about it.

And stop buying crap on credit!!!!!!

I don't make use of credit either but to blame people who didn't have an issue paying these bills until one day the banks decided to crank the interest rate up 3-400%, often for no reason seems like a bit of a stretch.

Once upon a time our country was built with some semblance of justice, morality, fair-play - whatever you want to call it. Somewhere along the line the individual was sold out. It's become completely commonplace for companies and government to just screw people over with no means of recourse.

Through bribery the big banks managed to change the rules and tilt the playing field so they can play loan shark with no consequences. If they treat you unfairly and inflate your obligation instantly (which should be illegal no matter what) you have no one to turn to. You can try to complain to the government but the reality is your money doesn't count against the bank's money. It's obvious the politicians are no longer concerned about the voters. A country with a fair, honest election system would not generate politicians so willing to screw over the voters.

Tyranny takes many forms, it's not just a dictator. It's a government which no longer represents the people, power which has no responsibility or consequence, wealth without obligation.

What we all need to be concerned with is not who took out what mortgage and shouldn't have and so on. The banks were more than happy to make the loans in order to inflate investments, the government was more than happy to take credit for the expansion - only when it starts to fall apart does the finger get pointed and look where it goes - right at the little man who had no power to make any of this happen.

When the banks screw up and not only expect to be bailed out but demand it at the point of a gun (that gun being the threat of financial collapse) there is no possible way to assign blame to anyone else.

People are running out of options. The bankers don't care and no longer even have to pretend to, the government is right there in bed with the bankers, the laws and courts no longer offer justice. Unfortunately for them the people are not quite so enslaved yet as to be ready to just roll over and die as they're told.

People are going to revolt, peacefully at first and then with great and horrible violence. If the bankers and government do not want this to happen they alone have the power to stop it. At this point it's like poking a tiger with a sharp stick. It's my tiger, I own him so he has to sit there and take it, right?

Oh that horrible, evil tiger. I pushed him into a corner, starved him, tortured his children and poked him with sharper and sharper sticks. He had no right to jump on me and rip my arm off. We must train the tigers to act like rabbits so we can poke them without consequence . . .

Familiar attitude? Remind you of "let them eat cake"?

Some types of people never learn. They always think they can run rampant over the backs of the people better than the last tyrant.

[edit on 2-10-2009 by ecoparity]

reply to post by incoserv


You know I basically agree with your philosophy. I want to recapture my finances like right now as an example I do exactly as you advise.

But where you get it wrong is expecting people to pay such horrible prices when they get it wrong, it is feeling superior when realistically your method hasn't exactly let you "light the world on fire" so to speak and kind of feels like your feeling superior...

But nothing ventured nothing gained...

Bankruptcy shouldn't haunt you 10 years that's your whole young adult life really, kids shouldn't be forced to start life in debt just to go to college.

And people that can't pick up from mistakes can't spend money back into the economy.

Credit Cards and easy credit is a flawed system, it's a national economy wrecker and they do prey upon and encourage people to make mistakes too...

These people should be let go of debt

And university should be covered or made cheep and credit be a much more limited thing to be issued...

The whole thing was a mistake, if people aren't free again to spend we aren't coming out of this situation...

In the end either the banks (who will get rich again FAST) or America takes the hit

If the people take this hit America will never be a rich nation again... there is an obvious way this should be handled and gloating that you didn't fall into that trap doesn't fix anything

There are two kinds of debt.

The first is by people that just cannot pay their regular household bills because of unemployment, sickness, or some other disaster not of their own making. The poor will always be around, and deserve some sympathy and assistance.

The second type of debt is just from pure outrageous greed and self indulgence.
Wanting to live the spoiled yuppie lifestyle, without having the income to support it..
Those people deserve every bit of the pain and suffering of seeing all the luxury items they could never really afford, being taken away from them. Too bad.

reply to post by incoserv


Here in Australia the average wage is about 56-58k. There are many people both above and below that line (actually, statistically speaking almost all of them are either above or below but never mind) and we have a pretty good life in this country.

What really gets me pissed off, is the people that are pulling their 150k wages and bitching that their waterfront home is harder to pay off.

I myself own 2 rental properties, my own house (all on loan by the bank), but I have structured my finances in such a way that my family benefits. Not the banks... not the government... us.

I earn 30k a year. My wife earns nothing and we have a 3 year old son. Life is NOT expensive. The crap in life is expensive... because you arent paying for the crap itself... but the crap plus all the hangers on ie marketing companies, bankers, venture capitalists... whatever.

Oh and did I mention that we give away 20% of our money to charities on a weekly basis??

To say you cant survive on less than this is just dopey. You can literally survive on $100 a week. You will be fed and clothed... WE have a very high quality of life, basically because we arent pissing our earnings away and dont throw money into the wind hoping to get rich. In ten years we will own everything in our portfolio...

Figure out what is meaningful to you... if its plasmas or LCDS or hot cars, then get worried if you've bought them on credit.

I refuse to allow my family into a situation that carries as much risk as losing our home... that is just reckless and shallow... yet so many people do it????

I think some people need to budget, others are just at the whim of the market.

Dave

The whole point of the debtors' revolt was due to the card companies increasing interest rates without any reasons. The lady who started the whole thing had her interest go from 14.9% to almost 30% even though she had always paid on time and had never gone over her limit. And it worked, the bank reduced her back down to her 15%.

Our card company had tried to do it to us also. We had taken on the card with a promised 10% flat rate. We purchased a much needed vehicle since we couldn't get a bank loan at that price. We have excellent pay history with them and have had them for 6 years. Then one day, out of the blue, our interest rate jumped up to about 15%. We called them to find out why, no real reason given and they put our interest rate back down to the original rate.

And the "revolt" works also for things that were essentially our fault also. My husband had forgotten to turn the page of the calender to the next month where the due date was on a Wednesday, but the month showing had the due date on a Friday. It was Thursday when he discovered he had messed up. We paid it immediately and due to being less than 24 hours late, our interest rate went up to abt 25%.

I called the card company and before I could even ask for anything, the guy had returned our rate to the original rate, gave a credit for the late fee and said that we would be back to normal on the next statement. (This was after he had look at our history.) So, as long as you are in goodstanding with the card company, the "revolt" works.

But I do agree with your statement that no one should go into debt unless it's unavoidable. I remember once while my daughter was still at home in her teenage years, she asked why everybody else drove new cars and had nice houses. And I told her that we didn't owe anyone anything whereas all these other people did and that if the economy were to collapse, we would still have a car and a roof over our heads where they wouldn't. She was satisfied with that answer.

Originally posted by willow1d
I remember once while my daughter was still at home in her teenage years, she asked why everybody else drove new cars and had nice houses. And I told her that we didn't owe anyone anything whereas all these other people did and that if the economy were to collapse, we would still have a car and a roof over our heads where they wouldn't. She was satisfied with that answer.

Smart girl.
Wise like her parents.
She will do well.

reply to post by incoserv


Blame the leeches and the leeched. We're all at fault for letting our country become the nightmare it is, the difference is that the average person has little control over the economy while many of those responsible for the crisis and for the exorbitant debt have MASSIVE influence.

Our system is based on debt, debt is marketed to us as "okay" and we are beaten over the head with billboards, commercials, mottos, jingles, etc telling us to consume and just begging us to be impulsive buyers maxing out our credit cards. That doesn't excuse our lack of self-control, the blame does rest partially on our shoulders but this financial crisis has created a lot of disdain for the debt based financial system we live in. I don't blame those members of the so called "debtors revolt", many of them were hit hard by the financial crisis and they don't have a government willing to bail them out like the parasites that started it...