A moment of silence for all the dead Jihadists

I think I will just wait for memorial day to give the salute to the armed forces for jumping into the hellmouth of war (all of them, even the really dumb ones) and giving life for the ideals of Americana..

not their fault that the war they fought in was not as black/white as the propaganda leads people to believe.

I also give props to people whom actually dont die fighting overseas to glorify their homeland...peace corp workers, etc...they may not be thinking things through (sure, feed starving desert nomads and make it easy for them to have tons of more children to starve in a few years..blah)

But the heart is in the right place anyhow.

So..Memorial day...not some arbitrary time on some day...the day is established...dont like memorial day? then adopt 4th of july, as that is a celebration of the starting of a war..we dont need anymore patriotic holidays or times or any of that (flag day..cough), What we need is a redefination of what patriotism is. (and no, its not simply chanting USA when someone with a opposing view is trying to open a discussion)

buhu...Doesnt deserve my pitty thats for sure.
when your so dumb that you list up for this so called war, I really cant feel sorry for you. People who died under ww1 and ww2 where heroes. Regular people fighting agains true evil. The war in afghanistad and Iraq = ridicolous..its not even a real war, it's just private companies trying to make money, and if your not smart enough to see that this "wars" have NOTHING to do with freedom, than go ahead and die.

Im maybe the last person to take up a gun and kill another being. But if my choice were to be enslaved by the nazis or have freedom, of course I would do my duty as a human being. But the choice here is live in freedom, or go over there, act as world police, just # up the country more than it was from the beginning, loose thousends of my own people, use so much money on this bs "war" wich could have been used to give everyone in the whole world food and shelter, and support the rich oil companies...well, I guess my answer would be live as I still do...

Originally posted by djusdjus

Originally posted by Asagi
reply to post by djusdjus

 

So if your army invade Spain or any other country, and the local people resist, they are the bad ones, the enemies?

LOL, give me a break. Before, anybody was able to go in these countries without being shot at, as a tourist, businessman, journalist etc..

[edit on 2-10-2009 by Asagi]

my country wouldn't invade spain. spain is not a crazy little backwards country that is run with an iron fist by madmen who kill their own people at teh drop fo a hat.

my country entered into a conflict with afghanistan and the taliban though. I support that mission.

I'm not american, and i don't support the incursion into iraq, but that has nothing to do with jihadists.

IN a nutshell, scum, criminals, thieves and murderers will not get a moment of silence from me. Hopefully they can get a nice collection of bullets in their heads though.

You see, they are already dead. No point in crying for them. They made their choice and it was the wrong one.

try to generate sympathy for jihadists is in my opinion ignorant.

generate sympathy for the innocent people who have been killed in this conflict sure, but to sympathize with teh people who cause this problem?

give your head a shake buddy.

Give yours a shake actually, cause Spain is just an example of a country who did nothing to you and your country.

As far as I'm concerned, these taliban and other extremists can go to hell, but come on, we're not the one to teach them how to live in their own country.

[edit on 2-10-2009 by Asagi]

[edit on 2-10-2009 by Asagi]

reply to post by oozyism


Our society must have just hit yet another level of decadence, since certain not so dignified members of it choose to honor both suicidal maniacs and enemy soldiers who are engaged in a fight against our troops. I hate war and everything, but I find the OP completely asinine. Next thing according to oozy would be to mass mail sarcastic messages to families of those who perished on 9/11. Just idiotic.

we're all human

divide and conquer

well done powers that be

well done

i don't see the distinction between a suicide bomber killing himself and other innocent people and an american soldier killing (himself possibly) and innocent people

"but they're not innocent they're crazy madmen"

says who? you? didn't know you were the judge of all people

one word... EGO

if we killed more EGOS then foreigners we'd be in utopia

I think you are conveniently overlooking a key difference here.

That difference is that terrorist attacks carried out by Islamic Insurgents are done mainly in the name of religion (Islam).

Western governments that commit acts of terror (US army's invasion of Iraq) do not do so in the name of religion, but rather for greed and power.

It might seem that the first group is more noble or honourable because they are fighting to protect a belief, whereas the second group look very malicious because all they care about is profit and self-gain.

The problem is that violent religious fanaticism has no limits once it has spread. Greed and power can be taken away from people, but deep-seated religious convictions that order you to hurt and murder others can not and this is why they are so dangerous.

Keeping that in mind, I think you are irrationally trying to suggest that these Insurgents are just victims. Victims do not use a religious ideology to murder other people. Victims do not carry out attacks that harm their own people as much as their enemies. Victims do not consider the hate and murder of their enemies to be more important than the safety and welfare of their own people.

I can understand BOTH sides of the argument for and against the OP, why can't everyone else see the same? Simply becuase they believe THEY ARE RIGHT.
There is no grey between the obvious black and white they can only see.
The Jihadists are told the same cock and bull story the 'loyal US' and 'Allied' troops are.
That they are defending the country or belief system they are told to believe in by those 'in charge'.
If you had a mass of so called 'Enemies' and a mass of so called ' Loyal supporters of Freedom and Democracy' and put them on a field , all they do is mill around and then end up chatting about their families.
All the posters on here that come and say 'Death to the Jihadists are NO BETTER than the Jihadists who shout 'Death to the west'.
There is NO black and white in their eyes , just what they are told is right ( their way) and wrong ( the other sides ways).

As soon as both sides appreciate the other for what they are, and that is Human beings like you and me, all want to believe what they want, how they want, to be left alone, to see their families and loved ones when they get home at night, to not grieve over lost loved ones, who died not for a foreign invader coming to their land, but simply becuase some ***ing scumbag in whatever Government told them , ' They are our enemy , they don't not believe the same as I am telling you, you must go over there and kill them so I not you can get rich , now go over there and kill their men, their women and their children'.

And to be totally honest? I don't care what you all think, I am very tired of this world and the ***ed up people that inhabit it, we all deserve to be nuked if we can't take a moment to see how the 'other side' lives. How they love ( which is the same as us by the way), to actually take time out to talk to our 'enemies' to meet in the middle , after all why should they change their ways when we won't change ours?

I really hope that some event in 2012 or in the future will shake us all up , and either kill most of us off so we can't hate each other as much as we do now ( because we are told to by TV and the corrupt political systems we have) or at least an event that will make us understand that we are all brothers of HUMANITY and that we shouldn't fight amongst ourselves but against those who seek to oppress us and who seek to make us slaves.

Originally posted by dannyfal
i don't see the distinction between a suicide bomber killing himself and other innocent people and an american soldier killing (himself possibly) and innocent people

Of course you don't see that. You don't see a lot of things. You choose not to see that the American soldier is there to try and make sure that another suicidal maniac doesn't blow you to bits. Not only you lack vision but also gratitude and common sense.

The OP may need to take a few minutes instead of just one because it ain't over yet. As for our troops, they are doing there job, Its our so called reprsentatives not the soldiers that should be scorned. To all the current military and vets thank you for your service!

Bravo to Oozy!
Inviting that kind of flaming. At first I thought this is just an attempt to rile people up (good job!), but then I realized that the OP was serious as a heart attack and and continually kept responding with clear and cohesive arguments. Here is my take:

They wouldn't be there if we weren't. It really is that simple. You can talk about who is truly responsible for 911 till your blue in the face. But why do we have to go and wipe out entire countries for a handful of guys (I don't subscribe to that particular load just making a point) that supposedly invaded our soil. So we defend our borders and be diplomatic with the rest of the world. Why do we have to be involved? There are many atrocities throughout this world. We have our own. Let us take care of ours and they can take care of theirs. Everywhere we go we seem to just make it worse for everyone involved.

I DO NOT SUPPORT OUR TROOPS

reply to post by buddhasystem


how many suicidal maniacs have tried to blow me to bits from afghanistan? 0
how many suicidal maniacs have tried to blow me to bits from iraq? 0

how many non suicidal maniacs have tried to control every aspect of my life from the USA? couple million?

the only peopel that want to blow up america is AMERICANS. we're the ones living here in this backwards ass society trying to tell others how to be as corrupt as us.

i say come and attack us, who cares, at least somebody has the balls to do it

Originally posted by dannyfal
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

how many suicidal maniacs have tried to blow me to bits from afghanistan? 0
how many suicidal maniacs have tried to blow me to bits from iraq? 0

Bombings in Madrid and London were linked to AQ. There is evidence about 9/11 connection. And Iraq had nothing to do with it, that is true.

In an ideal world, we wouldn't be in Iraq. I think history will damn Bush for this. We don't leave in an ideal world, however. And in this world, we can be critical of our leaders but still stick with the country and troops. Anything else is just freaking immature.

Originally posted by sisgood
Incidentally... they have found an ancient Koran written only 80 years after Mohammed's death. The translation is open to interpretation.
It's possible that instead of virgins... that people that loose their lives for Allah will be "comforted by cool grapes."

Yes, it could well be the case that when the 'true beleivers' get to paradise,all they will be receiving is a handful of small raisins:
www.dailygalaxy.com...

Originally posted by sisgood...And yes... I have read parts of the Koran and still have the one given to me. I know what I am talking about.

Yes,it appears the qu'ran doesn't hold 'non-beleivers' in very good stead -

Don't bother to warn the disbelievers. Allah has blinded them. Theirs will be an awful doom. 2:6

Allah has sickened their hearts. A painful doom is theirs because they lie. 2:10

Allah has blinded the disbelievers. 2:17-18

A fire has been prepared for the disbelievers, whose fuel is men and stones. 2:24

Disbelievers will be burned with fire. 2:39, 2:90

Allah stamped wretchedness upon the Jews because they killed the prophets and disbelieved Allah's revelations. 2:61

Allah turned the Sabbath-breaking Jews into apes. 2:65-66

If you believe in only part of the Scripture, you will suffer in this life and go to hell in the next. 2:85

Allah has cursed them for their unbelief. 2:88

The curse of Allah is on disbelievers. 2:89

Jews are the greediest of all humankind. They'd like to live 1000 years. But they are going to hell. 2:96

Allah is an enemy to the disbelievers. 2:98

Only evil people are disbelievers. 2:99

For disbelievers is a painful doom. 2:104

Don't question anything Muhammed says or choose disbelief over faith. 2:108

"For unbelievers: ignominy in this world, an awful doom in the next. 2:114

"And thou wilt not be asked about the owners of hell-fire." (They are the non-muslims.) 2:119

Disbelievers are losers. 2:121

Allah will leave the disbelievers alone for a while, but then he will compel them to the doom of Fire. 2:126

"Who forsaketh the religion of Abraham save him who befooleth himself?"
Cited in the Hamas Charter (Article 27) to condemn the idea of a secular state. 2:130

Those who reject the proofs, are accursed of Allah. 2:159

Those who die disbelievers, are cursed by Allah, angels, and men. 2:161

The doom of the disbelievers will not be lightened. 2:162

They will not emerge from the Fire. 2:167

Disbelievers will be deaf, dumb, and blind. 2:171

Those who hide the Scripture will have their bellies eaten with fire. Theirs will be a painful doom. 2:174

How constant are they in their strife to reach the Fire! 2:175

Believers must retaliate. Those who transgress will have a painful doom. 2:178

Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kil them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.) 2:191-2

Fight them until "religion is for Allah." 2:193

Those who fail in their duty to Allah are proud and sinful. They will all go to hell. 2:206

War is ordained by Allah, and all Muslims must be willing to fight, whether they like it or not. 2:216

Those who die in their disbelief will burn forever in the Fire. 2:217

Intermarriage is forbidden. 2:221

The disbelievers, they are the wrong-doers. 2:254

Disbelievers worship false gods. The will burn forever in the Fire. 2:257

Allah does not guide disbelievers. 2:264

"Give us victory over the disbelieving folk." 2:286

Those who disbelieve the revelations of Allah, theirs will be a heavy doom. 3:4

Those who disbelieve will be fuel for the Fire. 3:10

Those who disbelieve shall be overcome and gathered unto Hell. 3:12

Non-muslims will be punished by Allah for their nonbelief. 3:19

"If they surrender, then truly they are rightly guided, and if they turn away, then it is thy duty only to convey the message."
(The message for those who won't surrender is "you're going to hell.") 3:20

Those who disbelieve, promise them a painful doom. 3:21

"They [Christians and Jews] say: The Fire will not touch us save for a certain number of days. That which they used to invent hath deceived them regarding their religion." (The Fire will burn them forever.) 3:24

Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference to believers. 3:28

Allah loveth not the disbelievers. 3:32

Allah will punish disbelievers in this world and the next. They will have no helpers. 3:56

Don't believe anyone who is not a Muslim. 3:73

Theirs will be a painful doom. 3:77

All non-Muslims will be rejected by Allah after they die. 3:85

Apostates will be cursed by Allah, angels, and men. They will have a painful doom. 3:86-88

Disbelievers will have a painful doom. And they will have no helpers. 3:91

Disbelievers will have their faces blackened on the last day. They will face an awful doom. 3:105-6

Muslims are the best people. Most Non-muslims are "evil-livers." 3:110

Those who disbelieve will be burnt in the Fire. 3:116

Don't be friends with non-Muslims. They all hate you and want to ruin you. 3:118

The Fire is prepared for disbelievers. 3:131

Give us victory over the disbelieving folk. 3:147

Do not obey disbelievers. 3:149

We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Their habitation is the Fire 3:151

"Is one who followeth the pleasure of Allah as one who hath earned condemnation from Allah, whose habitation is the Fire?"
Unbelievers will burn forever in the Fire. 3:162

Theirs will be an awful doom. 3:176

Disbelievers do not harm Allah, but will have a painful doom. 3:177

Disbelievers will go to Hell. 3:196

Those who disobey Allah and his messenger will be burnt with fire and suffer a painful doom. 4:14

For the disbelievers and those who make a last-minute conversion, Allah has prepared a painful doom. 4:18

For disbelievers, We prepare a shameful doom. 4:37

"Allah has cursed them for their disbelief, so they believe not." 4:46

Christians and Jews must believe what Allah has revealed to Muhammad or Allah will disfigure their faces or turn them into apes, as he did the Sabbath-breakers. (See 2:65-66) 4:47

Those who ascribe a partner to Allah (like Christians do with Jesus and the Holy Spirit) will not be forgiven. They have "invented a tremendous sin." 4:48, 4:116

Those who invent lies about Allah are guilty of flagrant sin. 4:50

Jews and Christians believe in idols and false deities, yet they claim to be more rightly guided than Muslims. 4:51

"Those (Christians and Jews) are they whom Allah hath cursed." 4:52

Hell is sufficient for their burning. 4:55

Unbelievers will be tormented forever with fire. When their skin is burned off, a fresh skin will be provided. 4:56

Those who refuse to follow Muhammad, follow false gods and are deceived by Satan. 4:60

Those who refuse to believe what Allah has revealed to Muhammad are hypocrites. 4:61

Oppose and admonish those who refuse to follow Muhammad. 4:63

The hypocrites refuse to die for Allah and Muhammad. 4:66

Those who obey Allah and Muhammad are favored by Allah. They are the best company. 4:69

Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars. 4:74

Believers fight for Allah; disbelievers fight for the devil. So fight the minions of the devil. 4:76

Allah casts the hypocrites back to disbelief. Don't try to guide those that Allah sends astray. 4:88

Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. 4:89

If the unbelievers do not offer you peace, kill them wherever you find them. Against such you are given clear warrant. 4:91

Believers shouldn't kill believers, unless by mistake. If you kill a believer by mistake, you must set free a believing slave. 4:92

Believers who kill believers will go to hell. 4:93

The disbelievers are an open enemy to you. 4:101

For the disbelievers, Allah has prepared a shameful punishment. 4:102

Relent not in pursuit of the enemy. They have no hope from Allah. 4:104

Those who oppose the messenger and become unbelievers will go to hell. 4:115

They (those who ascribe partners to Allah) invoke in his stead only females and pray to Satan. 4:117

Allah will lead them astray and they will go to hell. 4:119-121

Those who believe, then disbelieve, then believe and disbelieve again will never be forgiven by Allah. 4:137

For the hypocrites there will be a painful doom. 4:138

Allah will gather hypocrites and disbelievers into hell. 4:140

Allah will not allow disbelievers to succeed against believers. 4:141

Do not choose disbelievers as friends. 4:144

The hypocrites will be in the lowest part of hell and no one will help them there. 4:145

You must believe everything Allah and his messengers tell you. Those who don't are disbelievers and will face a painful doom. 4:150-151

For the wrongdoing Jews, Allah has prepared a painful doom. 4:160-1

God will guide disbelievers down a road that leads to everlasting hell. 4:168-169

Those who deny Islam will be losers in the Hereafter. 5:5

Disbelievers are the rightful owners of Hell. 5:10

Allah has cursed the Jews and hardened their hearts. Nearly all of them are treacherous. 5:12-13

Allah has stirred up enmity and hatred among Christians. 5:14

Christians are disbelievers for believing in the divinity of Christ. 5:17

527 points here:
skepticsannotatedbible.com...

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

Originally posted by buddhasystem

Originally posted by dannyfal
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

how many suicidal maniacs have tried to blow me to bits from afghanistan? 0
how many suicidal maniacs have tried to blow me to bits from iraq? 0

Bombings in Madrid and London were linked to AQ. There is evidence about 9/11 connection. And Iraq had nothing to do with it, that is true.

AQ is a group of people tho... not the country of afghanistan or pakistan or iraq or iran or whatever prejudiced people wanna think

and you seem to understand this concept, so what difference does it make WHO we're killing

killing is killing, we are not ones to judge. we live the crappiest lifestyle eating poison and completely enslaved for life. its DIFFERENT from other countries crappiness but nonetheless, we are not an example

Originally posted by dtice
But why do we have to go and wipe out entire countries for a handful of guys
I DO NOT SUPPORT OUR TROOPS

Well not supporting the troops is your right.

However I think you are eating up the oppositions propaganda hook, line and sinker. Jihadists target civilians I don't give a flying fart what AQ No2 states. Understand Iraq is in the middle of a civil war between Sunni and Shia.

Wiped out Iraq 2009!

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/871b6ce5781f.jpg[/atsimg] [atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/79ed9f1a57ea.jpg[/atsimg]

Yeah most of the violence has been Iraqi on Iraqi for the past two or three years. What they also count are the deaths caused by Jihadists/insurgents as being victims of the US

I threw in a little story at the bottom about how Iraq may have to return to a police state in order to maintain peace just like Good old Saddam had in order to stop the violence between the two groups who are now blowing each other up again.

After Years of Secrecy, a Glimpse Into the Numbers of Civilians Dead in Iraq

As sectarian violence drove the number of civilian deaths in Iraq to thousands per month in 2006 and 2007, many Iraqi ministries, morgues and hospitals were under government order not to release the embarrassing figures, and the prime minister’s office generally disputed the ones that did leak out.

American forces in Iraq were no more helpful, often refusing to release figures or claiming that they did not exist. Obtaining information on the deaths was an exhausting, grisly and often clandestine affair, and — Iraq being Iraq — no two sets of figures ever seemed to match exactly.

11 Iraqi soldiers killed in bomb disposal accident

MOSUL, Iraq, Sept 25 (Reuters) - Eleven Iraqi soldiers were killed on Friday in a roadside bomb disposal accident in northern Iraq, Iraqi security officials said.

Bombs kill 3 near Shiite shrine in central Baghdad

BAGHDAD — Two bombs exploded moments apart near the tomb of a revered Shiite religious figure in central Baghdad on Saturday, killing three people and wounding 22, police and hospital officials said.

The first bomb went off next to the tomb of the ninth-century sheik, Othman al-Omari, where a number of people were praying. A few minutes later, a car bomb exploded in a nearby parking lot as crowds were gathering. The shrine was damaged.

Iraq civilian deaths are highest since April

BAGHDAD, Sept 1 (Reuters) - The number of civilians recorded killed in violence in Iraq shot up to 393 in August, its highest level since April, after a spate of huge bombings caused carnage in Baghdad and northern Iraq.

Figures from the ministry of health showed a big increase on last month's 224 violent deaths in Iraq. The figure was also slightly higher than the 382 killed in August last year.

Iraq death toll in August highest in 13 months

BAGHDAD — Violent deaths in Iraq hit a 13-month high in August, official figures showed on Tuesday, raising fresh concerns about the country's stability after the government admitted that security is worsening.

Statistics compiled by the defense, interior and health ministries showed that 456 people -- 393 civilians, 48 police and 15 Iraqi soldiers -- were killed, the highest toll since July last year when 465 died in unrest.

There were also 1,592 civilians, 129 police and 20 soldiers wounded.

Iraqi death toll in August is the highest in more than a year

A total of 456 Iraqi civilians and security personnel were killed in attacks in August, the government figures show. It was the deadliest month since July 2008, when 465 Iraqis died violently, though the tally was far lower than at the height of the civil war in 2006 and 2007 when monthly tolls sometimes soared past 2,000.

Could a police state return?

He had a point. The Shia-led government has overseen a ballooning of the country’s security apparatus. Human-rights violations are becoming more common. In private many Iraqis, especially educated ones, are asking if their country may go back to being a police state.

[edit on 2-10-2009 by SLAYER69]

reply to post by buddhasystem


i think the best way to put it buddhasystem, is that US doesn't know who they're attacking. at all. and the "crazy" jihadists know exactly who they're attacking. doesn't make it right, but at least some of their justification has some ground to it.

Too bad we can't have a moment of silence for governments fighting their own damn war instead of wasting our soldiers to kill innocent people - which the U.S. government also has funded (the opposition I mean).

And you have major balls for creating this good idea, which you'd probably get beaten and called anti-American if you suggested it in front of people, face-to-face. S&F.

[edit on 2-10-2009 by DevilJin]

[edit on 2-10-2009 by DevilJin]

How ironic that Spain should have been mentioned in a throw away comment in this thread. A country where, within living memory, American private citizens took it upon themselves to illegally enter the country in order to fight against a foreign backed government the ideology of which they disagreed with &/or in solidarity with those whose ideology they espoused. Not much different to a Jihadist really. I'll bet Franco's supporters had their own propaganda to demonise them too. Truly, "One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist."
Oh, but they didn't target "innocent" civilians? Get over the propaganda. War is hell. Its not just about armies fighting each other, its a struggle on all fronts: military, political, economic & psychological. Each side uses whatever tactics seem to work. Lets have it right: when things have got tough, the USA has used terror bombing plenty of times.
Is it right? Personally I dont believe so, but that wont change the reality that, in desperate times, people traditionally resort to desperate measures. Or is anyone here going to claim that Muslims want to kill civilians for some war unrelated reason?
As others have said, the blame for this entire mess lies with the warmongers.