Debtors Revolt M Beginning

Originally posted by Pathos

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
I told each Debtor this, From this day forward I will not pay you any money, Not for the time share, not for my one credit card, not for my school loans, not for my second mortage( which I got only because I couldnt get this house with out one.) Not the car, not anything.(cept my main Mortage.) I closed out all of my bank accounts and opted for a papercheck at work, I have one account and that is at a credit union. this has been two months and now my phone is ringing off the hook with threats about legal action. But yet not one of them has address my intial grievances HELP ME HELP YOU.

Congrats. Even though you can apply for bankruptcy, you will still have to pay for all your mortgages and college loans. They are NOT covered by applying for bankruptcy. Since your college loan is also considered a mortgage, you now have three mortgages that are delinquent. You are about to loose it all. If you do not turn things around soon, it will take you over 20 years to even qualify for an apartment.

Congrats. You stuck it to yourself and your family. I hope you have relatives to live with, or your going to end up on the street. You only have yourself to blame. That is what you get for living above your means.

[edit on 2-10-2009 by Pathos]

Where do you get that mortgages are not dissolvable by bankruptcy?

And student loans can have forebearances and deferments applied to them to keep from having delinquency on them. Plus, under extreme circumstances (although it's hard to do) sometimes you are able to get rid of student loans under a bankruptcy.

Originally posted by UMayBRite!

Sure this man borrowed money and promised to pay it back. He thought
he was protected by the rule of law. He didn't realize how his government
let him be screwed.

Sorry, but this is in no way, shape, nor form, the responsibility of the government... HE made the choice to deal with these people...

27% interest isn't about paying back what he promised, its about legalized theft.

Actually, if he paid back the principal in a gracious amount of time, the 27% probably wouldn't be an issue. I am assuming he didn't go out and accrue the debt and have the interest rate jump that high overnight.

If people really woke up, we'd probably drive up to North Dakota and burn down the Capitol for legalizing these crooked card deals to create a few local jobs.

This makes no sense at all. If you're mad about money and debt, be mad that the government allows the Federal Reserve to continue to infect our economic system with speculation and overall bad practices...

Originally posted by VAPatriot
reply to post by Azazelus

 

How nice for you to be in the extreme minority that does not need credit. You assume a lot. You know nothing of the circumstances of what many hard working, responsible people are in. That is very obvious from your comments. Walk a mile I my shoes before you cast judgment.

I never stated I didn't need or use credit.

The difference in me, the original poster, and you obviously are that I evidently know how to manage it better.

Don't purchase anything that you can't pay off with savings when the bill comes in. If you do, that is being irresponsible. I don't care what your definition of responsible is.

The hardest working person I know, my grandfather that I mentioned before, is probably a millionaire. But, you wouldn't know it because of his outer appearance and material goods...

He's never paid over $200 for a vehicle, the newest of which is an early 80's model pickup truck. He doesn't eat in restaurants. He doesn't have a working television. Again, his house is over 100 years old and looks every bit of it. He has no income other than a laughable social security check and interest from every penny he's ever saved and put into a bank. He still farms with a tractor that is from the 1940's or 50's. He picks up pecans every year and sells them (3000 pounds alone that he picked up by hand last year). His light bill is around $20 a month and he complains if it gets any higher. He quit driving 2 years ago because he didn't want to pay the $1000 a year insurance (while mine is at least 3x that), nor pay the extra fees of renewing his license yearly at his age...

We've all gotten too comfortable in what the masters have conditioned us with. Buy into this. Buy into that. Go to church. Do this. Do that.

It's time everyone had a reality check and taught themselves a little bit of humility.

Nice. I agree with your initiative. If I was in that situation, I wouldn't do things much differently. I hope more people start following your example!

reply to post by Azazelus


I will have you know my interest rates were at 10% for credit. I was late a payment they shot up 27% thats uncalled for. The payment was late a day due to oversight. I am not a rich man when I was in the Army I made some wise investments. Like this one Martha Stewarts share were a dollar I spent all of my savings and combat pay 15,000 into here company it paid off well for me i sold it at 31.75 5 months later. Then I went into a smart investments buying safe stock and such like oh goverment backed things such ass freddie and fannie because big brother said they were safe, I diversified into international funds and emergin markets. I also invested in Iraqi curriency that is starting to pay off.

But a LARGE PORTION of what I made off martha stewart was lossed almost a year ago to the day. Now is that my fault yes I could have stocked that money into CD and such but I tired to make my money work for me. and when the clowns who started this mess went to bush for a bailout I got pissed. And I was even more mad when Lord Barry gave them a second round of helpings. Did any of you see any of that money? NO thats why I aint paying anymore.

As far as your credit cards go, you can do like most people are doing now and walk away from your credit and ride it out for seven years of bad credit, but what’s seven years, that is a short time anyway.

I don't know where people get this stuff. If you don't pay your credit cards, they don't magically disappear after 7 years. They can try to collect them for 20 years if they like (or the debt agency). Once paid off, THEN they stay on your credit report for 7 years, as bad credit (if you were late paying, etc). I even have a washer/dryer bill that I refuse to pay, as my first cheating wife kept it after I left, and Wards has been trying to collect on that thing for probably 16 years now.

Also, there is no doubt that the massive hike in interest rates is not right. However, you KNEW THIS going into any debt with credit cards, or department stores (who uses CCs and are subject to their stupid rate hikes). If you didn't read the fine tiny almost unreadable print (there is a reason they do this) on your agreement, that's your fault, not theirs.

I was on a Grand Jury trial, where a real estate guy had scammed dozens of people. EVERY single one of them lost their home as a result. However, they were all screwed, because the contract, screwed up as it was, was legally binding. They just didn't read any of it when they signed them. And we saw all sorts of people, from single folks, to folks in the military, to other professionals. The scammer got hit with some counts for his activity, but those people still lost their homes, because they signed something they didn't take the time to read and fully understand.

I understand there are some cases where people are legitimately angry for having rates hiked after doing nothing wrong. But even those folks signed a contract that said they could do this to them. But many I think, are people who bought stuff they can't afford, were late or stopped payment, and are now upset that their rates are 29%, and feel they for some reason that this entitles them to give companies the middle finger. Take some responsibility for your actions.

Another way to fight the man. if you can pay for most stuff with cash, and keep your money out of the bank as much as possible. A small checking account for some things, and cash for everything else.

The non payment of credit card debt will undoubtedly get much more prevelant. The card companies can't take everyone to court, it costs them, too much money. Plus, if a person has lost everything, why should they be worried about a credit card with outrageous interest rates. Most peoples credit rating is toast by that time anyway.

I'm sure this debtors revolt will gain in popularity as more and more people have nothing to lose.

Next step---will those who have lost everything start to refuse to pay federal taxes?? The IRS can't take everyone to court, and let's face it, there biggest weapon for compliance is fear. if the economy tanks in a big way, many people might refuse to file. it could happen.....

Unless YOU call them and harass them, they won't sue you.

Just because they sue it, it does not guarantee they will ever collect. It also does not assure they will receive court and attorney fees from you, regardless of what the contract you sign states. THAT DECISION is made by the judge.

If the collection agencies sued ever single past due account, they would be out of business quick.

If you don't bother them, they won't sue you no matter what they illegally tell you on the phone. No matter what some liar on the internet has posted. IT WON'T HAPPEN!

If you get a phone call from a legal office, it's just a debt collector with a bottom feeder attorney on the payroll. They pay the lawyer to use his name in their mailings and on their website. That is about the extent of that relationship.

Every company has a lawyer. It's no big deal. That lawyer is collecting his paycheck no matter what you do.

In the highly unlikely event they garnish your wages, just change jobs. Changing jobs is not a crime. Make them go through the process all over again. When they see their actions are costing them, not you, they will cease.

Get a PO box. NOT at the post office. Get a private box. Change EVERYTHING to that address, including your drivers license and voting card. To avoid violating voting laws, make absolutely certain that the private mail box is under the exact same voting umbrella as your residence.

Disconnect your land phone. If you must have a land number, get magic jack. Turn the ringer off on the phone. Only use the phone for dialing out. Don't even bother checking the voice mail on it. If you must give a phone number to a company, give them the magic jack number you never answer or hear ring.

Call your cellular carrier and change that number.

They can no longer call you.
They can not determine your true residence. They think you live in that little box.

When you get that private mail box, the application will ask for an address and phone number. They also get the magic jack number. Give them a friend's address. Good enough.

Now, they can call until the cows come home.They are not bothering you and you are not bothering them. And they can't bother you. It's a done deal.

The statute of limitations will run out in 3 years on contract debt (in Texas) and 4 years on credit debt (in Texas).

It can stay on your credit report for 15 years but (in Texas) you can have an attorney remove anything older then 7 years. It cost money to hire a lawyer so that's up to you.

But remember if you pay even a penny; if you even make a promise to pay but never do pay; in each instance, the 7/15 year clock restarts at zero.

If you can't pay it off in full, there is no reason for you to be communicating with them. PERIOD!

Let me remind you; Fortune 500 CEOs received hundreds of millions of YOUR bail out money. Then, they testified to Congress they can not locate "some" of the money.

And Congress is NOT investigating it.

Want to know why?

Congress: Here is your $300 million. Remember to put $30 million in that account we talked about and make sure you don't report it.

Banker: It's already done. Make sure you don't investigate what we "lost."

Congress: Why would we investigate? Everybody in Congress is doing this.

Banker: I know. lol Bush and Obama. Love those guys!

If you play by the rules, you will lose. Don't you all see what they are doing?

They are trying to change the system into what THEY want.

We want to change it into what WE want.

(I had to delete some stuff because I was turning my post into a political thread jacking. Proof your work before you post.)

Well kid, you did just about everything wrong that you could do wrong but I guess right now you've figured that out. Not how you're dealing with creditors though.

What absolutely amazes me to this very day is how nobody seemed to see this coming. Back when Greenspan lowered the prime after 9/11 and everybody went nuts refinancing their homes and buying homes that only luck could keep them in it was obvious that it was all a big trap. And it was. The question is now that everyone's been sucked in what to do. That's simple- put 'em out of business.

Everyone needs to throw out their credit cards and just quit paying on them. If you choose to pay them off and can, great, just don't use them anymore. When dealing with bloodsuckers just cut off the supply of blood.

We all need to realize that this battle is between you and the corporations global or otherwise. Yes, you. They might not have come for you yet but they will. Deal with them now while there's numbers on our side.

Go after them all. Buy locally and do everything in your power to put your dollars to work supporting the area where you live. Only spend money on the things you need to live and nothing else but do it to support your local economy. When it all collapses and that's not far off the only thing that will matter is all within a forty mile circle of where you are now.

We need to bury every corporation that sends jobs overseas. We need to bury every corporation that is not US based. We need to bury every corporation that uses lobbyist at the state and federal level. We need to bury every corporation that has a hand in the credit/usury market. We need to rebuild our manufacturing base and wean ourselves off the foreign junk while creating jobs in the US. And, above all, we need to expect every country on the planet to do the exact same thing. Screw this globalism!

We have the power to bring the house down and while that may, at first glance, seem self defeating it is not. It all depends upon who controls the demolition. If we allow these internal and external parasites to control the fall we'll be the ones stripped clean and we're never going to get back up again. You may as well be a slave at that point.

If we bring them down first or at least make sure most of them go with us when we start the process of putting it all back together again it will be without the bloodsuckers. We can level the playing field if we have the will to do it.

Bear in mind that either way we're going to go through some really hard times. That being so, if we have to endure the pain lets do it with a purpose. Lets at least make sure that these greedy boards of directors, CEO's and stockholders who could care less whether or not we or our kids have a roof or food aren't waiting on the other side to do it to us all over again.

If we can rid ourselves of these parasites we can reclaim our government. If we won't do what we need to do to accomplish this then we deserve our chains.

They do sometimes sue. Back in 2005 I got a certified letter in the mail from a collection agency that was suing me over an old credit card debt. I tried to get legal aid to help me since I didn't have a job (I was still recovering from extensive illness) and was told that I was judgment proof since I don't own anything, so they wouldn't help me. The collection agency won by default since I did not know things like demanding proof of debt, etc that I learned about years later. The credit card in particular started out with something like a $450 credit limit, but due to interest and other fees the judgment is for over $13k. Lawyer's fees were added to it too. Had I not signed for that letter, it would have put them off past the statute of limitations that I also did not know about. Kicker is that I never used the card. I signed up for it at the college for some free prize, but didn't know that the first part of the money was some outrageous account set up fee for the same amount of the credit limit. So basically I didn't even get a stick of bubble gum for that $13k.

Anyone know how long they can collect on that judgment? So far I have not heard another peep out of them. It's been over four years now.

Just pay a dollar on any medical bills -- they cannot foreclose on you if you just pay ANY money. Then find any line item that doesn't make sense and ask them to explain -- more often than not, you can find something that padded the costs and some that are just bogus. If you find a discrepancy on the bill, then claim that they must resubmit it and you will not start paying any interest they claim until the paperwork is correct. Pay none of the penalties and interest on the medical bill, and tell them they will have to prove that you owe it in court -- sign nothing further that acknowledges you OWE. I think in a court of law, all medical billing agreements can be looked at as "under duress" because we usually don't have a choice on living with Pneumonia or going to the emergency room. Last time I went, I asked them for price quote -- they don't give those. So you enter into a blind agreement and they act in bad faith.

Not sure if the courts would back that up -- because its not about what is right or fair. It's the Golden Rule. Big Medicine has to treat you, but they get to make up an imaginary number that you have to pay. Often when you challenge a price, they cut it in half -- which tells you they fluff it up to see if you will pay.

The Student loans should stop requiring payment/interest (I think) if you are enrolled in any course at all. So find anything accredited of interest to you that his cheap, and take the course -- you should save more in stopping the interest accruals.

>> But I don't think any laws are on your side anymore. When the Bush and cronies pushed through the "Bankruptcy Reform Act" it was written by the bank and it's pretty clear they knew what was coming. If you have more than $500,000 in property -- you can get some semblance of the "old style" bankruptcy protection -- but not if you own less... let that sink in and realize how cynical they are.


Whatever you can do to lie, steal, cheat those who gave you these interests rates above 15% -- I would never convict you in a court of law. We are being run by organized criminals and we ARE in a class war, and the rich are winning.

When the dust settles, there will be three banks, and they will write the terms.

>> So yes, get out of all debts and never own another credit card. Ever. Stay with your Credit Union, they invest locally and are by charter, unable to charge more than 15% interest -- so they are the good guys, at least until they hire a Congressman.

>> Good luck. It will be interesting to hear some good ideas here -- but I don't know any. You can't throw yourself on the mercy of these banks because they don't have that emotion. They cut people's wages and fire them while taking bonuses and they wouldn't mind making an example out of you. They'd rather you had a ruined life, then pay them back a portion -- because they WANT to ruin this country. It's beyond just greed.

The banking consortiums are slowly boiling the frog, and they want us all to be sharecroppers working land that we don't own. Forever in debt.

If the tables were ever turned -- I'm wondering if there was any downside to the French Revolution.

reply to post by CmdrZero


That sounds all nice and dandy...

However... Why should I have faith in any sort of new system that will be setup by the average joe that couldn't manage his own finances and decided he'd overthrow the current system?

It will never work.

What we need to do is get rid of the Federal Reserve first. Then you get rid of the corporations. Then you localize the markets. Then you begin progressing to a more balanced system.

You won't see that though, because the elite from the Right and Left want to keep their economical status. They want to continue to be the slave drivers, and in the process, allow big credit companies to be their whips.

The only way to solve the economic system in the US is to reformat the political and social system. But, phase one of the Right's plan to be the bad guy is in full swing... "They want to turn us into socialists!" is now common thought for the sheep on that side... Little do they know, due to ignorance, are that they are to blame for their own sufferings, while the elite from both sides of the political spectrum sit back and laugh...

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst
The Student loans should stop requiring payment/interest (I think) if you are enrolled in any course at all. So find anything accredited of interest to you that his cheap, and take the course -- you should save more in stopping the interest accruals.

It depends on the type of the loan. Subsidized loans won't accrue interest. The government pays the interest on those when in deferment. Unsubsidized loans accrue interest.

reply to post by poedxsoldiervet


File bankruptcy and they wont get anything from you at all. It will cost you around fifteen hundred but its well worth it to get them off your back. You have nothing to loose and all to gain. The government will tell you to do what you just did when you take the required bankruptcy education course on-line.

They cant take your house then. Sell any cars you don't need cheap to a relative you don't share the same name with. I would have as little in your name as possible at all times.

reply to post by Jessicamsa


You can not stop paying your mortgage or student loans. They will try and get you help with them if you need it but good luck.

They are so backed up with bankruptcies right now they may be two years away from getting to the case.

We are know that this government and economy is not going to last another two years.

Originally posted by Jessicamsa
.... So basically I didn't even get a stick of bubble gum for that $13k.

Anyone know how long they can collect on that judgment? So far I have not heard another peep out of them. It's been over four years now.

Wow. I would say get a better lawyer and take them to criminal Fraud court. You got mugged by someone in a suit.

They took advantage of you not knowing your rights or the bill they created for you. No telling if you would win, because when you steal big like the Credit Card issuers, your crimes are legal. Doesn't make it right.

Every dang institution we have to protect the consumer has been compromised. It isn't "Big" vs. "Small" government -- we used to be able to trust the FDA, Consumer Credit Council and the courts. The problem is corruption and revolving doors of Lobbyists and Bureaucrats in oversight positions trading favors.

I'm still waiting for the prosecutions of all the Bush era crooks who traded personal gain for the public interest. Vioxx, Asbestos, lead paint on toys -- there is a long list of covered up crimes and faulty products. So far, there is no downside to selling out the public good and lining your pockets -- it's a lot cheaper to hire Radio and TV shills to get people upset about Union auto workers, air scrubbers, and interfering with profit making drug ventures.

Yes, the TeaBaggers and anti-Global warming people, ARE hurting your pocket. They are just an example of the Pro-Corporate fools who work for astroturf movements. Drug Companies don't want a public health care option, and Exxon doesn't want us moving to alternative energy. They can afford to hire some people to rally fools.

We have Neal Bortz and Rush Limbaugh, constantly directing anger at weak groups of people who are easy to scapegoat, and away from the companies that financially benefit. There are too many fools on even this web site, who copy their drivel and then go out and march. While people were complaining of Union auto workers $3 more per hour than non-Union, the Executives paid themselves a bonus. Exec compensation is 4 times more than the cost of labor on building a car. Does the News Media ever cover that?


>> So what credit cards and Banks do to us -- is a direct result of the corporations, spending money on Talk Show Hosts, to tell you that the free market doesn't need regulation and the idea that companies collude is a conspiracy theory.

Originally posted by Sky watcher
reply to post by poedxsoldiervet

 

File bankruptcy and they wont get anything from you at all. It will cost you around fifteen hundred but its well worth it to get them off your back. You have nothing to loose and all to gain. The government will tell you to do what you just did when you take the required bankruptcy education course on-line.

They cant take your house then. Sell any cars you don't need cheap to a relative you don't share the same name with. I would have as little in your name as possible at all times.

Filing Bankruptcy does NOT mean you don't have to pay anymore -- THAT's the huge crime and travesty in the Bankruptcy Reform Act.



There was no honest attempt or interest in the public good -- it was a direct sell-out to the Banksters. Why are we bailing them out, when they got to rape people with 20% interest NINJA loans when the borrower qualified for a standard loan? Where did the money go that they were raking in?

I'm not an expert on bankruptcy -- but I'd recommend the OP view a few blogs and support groups for people going through it.

Basically, unless he finds a few loop holes or tricks, he's going to be a debt slave until they figure he isn't worth going after anymore.


>> My own solution would be to mail all the creditors and debt collectors a 976 number to call you at, with terms and conditions in 8 point type -- with ink that starts out grey but gets darker in time (kind of like the receipts I get that go invisible after 3 months). After two months, send them a bill for the $3000 a minute that you were charging them.


Don't pretend these are decent people. If I invest in a stock on Wall Street and it goes south -- well, just my bad judgement. But if a Bankster gives you a high interest card that you can't pay off, the system rewards them for an unwise investment -- they can't lose. Seems like a one-way deal to me.

I think all credit card debts should not be legally enforceable -- and if the issuers have a problem with that -- remind them that nobody is forcing them to extend people credit on a card for 20% compound interest.

And if the educational lenders are upset that you aren't paying them back for school loans -- why didn't they protest the outsourcing of jobs? Perhaps they should collect their money from the Global Corps that moved your future job to another country and paid for people to lobby congress and the press to complain about Tariffs and trade restrictions.

China won't buy our cars, won't allow an foreign owned businesses -- yet we have tiny import fees on their goods and this was supposed to help make America competitive while your utility bills quadruple, you pay for your own education and health care?

Folks, we got screwed and if you haven't figured out it was the Free Market Globalization preachers that did it to you -- I'm not sure I can be sympathetic.

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet


This may not be in the right area so move it as you see fit.....

My wife lost her job almost a year ago; durning that time are bills still had to be paid and our lovely savings account has now dwindle from 20,000 to 900, While she has found another job its an 8.00 job and she hardly gets hours...

In the light of this I started to make phone calls to our debtors, asking them to lower the interst rates and explaining our situation. THere answer was no. Mind you I did not ask for a princepal reduction just interest rates. My one credit card hiked its rates from 10% to 27.99%; We own a timeshare ( I know dumb thing to buy but we bought it 5 years ago) The interst rate on that is now 16%; Our two student loans equal 360 a minth and no reduction there. So when Obama came out with the making home affordable program I thought great now I can get some of this interest knocked off my 1020 Sq foot cape cod... No not this time twice denied...

I began recalling every debtor (after I cut out cable, cell phones, out to eat, vactions, zoo trips, family outings, were down to bare nessecities) and asked them to please cut the interset or at least freeze it for me. The said no... Bank of America told me I diddnt not qualify even though my 90,000 house now is worth 72,000. No one would help me I called Federal agencies seeking intervention to help cut the interst rates (not the princepal) they said no... Even my congressmen told me no...

FINALLY I had enough and called them one more time and told them help or else, HSBC Laughed at me and Bank of America hung up three times. I told each Debtor this, From this day forward I will not pay you any money, Not for the time share, not for my one credit card, not for my school loans, not for my second mortage( which I got only because I couldnt get this house with out one.) Not the car, not anything.(cept my main Mortage.) I closed out all of my bank accounts and opted for a papercheck at work, I have one account and that is at a credit union. this has been two months and now my phone is ringing off the hook with threats about legal action. But yet not one of them has address my intial grievances HELP ME HELP YOU.

They call my house at all hours of the night now-) Letters from lawyers-) I will not pay one more cent to this assholes, I diddnt ask for princepal reduction I ask for an interst rate deduction.... I am finally fighting back and sticking it to the Man....

I have money now but there not getting it, and every transcation is done in cash no more credit loans.FIGHT THE POWER OR COLLASPE IT I am working to do both.

 

Replaced 'All Caps' in title

[edit on 1/10/09 by masqua]

Good choice my friend. Is about time that this sharks stop devouring people's lives. Keep fighting for your family, your blood and all the work you've done to make your life a normal life. And if they show to your door to take away your existence, blow their heads off. Enough is enough !!!

reply to post by Awakened2012


Amen Brother!

"If you entered into a contract knowing full well what goes on behind the scenes, still took their money, spent it then called foul when you couldnt pay it back.. sorry, i dont look at it as the banks fault."

Over and over I read about people saying, "If you borrowed the money...." but I am in the position that I didn't BORROW money, I suddenly started having grand mal seizures in March. The first one, my husband freaked out because I turned blue, (and I guess it's a scary thing, seeing a seizure) and he called an ambulance,,let me state that I have Aetna insurance....I had another grand mal at work, the ophthalmologist I work for freaked out and called an ambulance. Aetna didn't have the particular hospital on their "list".....I have been getting calls from 8am until 9pm CST since last year....one creditor called every friggin 30 minutes for about a month. I have a part time job. I have NO credit cards, no credit, no car and we rent. I used to have several thousand in the bank...I now have nothing....living paycheck to paycheck......It is NOT like I STOLE medical care...so what do you snobby know-it-alls have to say about THEM apples? NOT everyone who doesn't pay their bills are scum, or losers, or whatever you want to name call......i WORK in medicine and know how over-priced services are......even if I have THOUSANDS in my bank account, I wouldn't pay the HUNDREDS of dollars my insurance company took upon themselves NOT to pay....
I have been reading this thread with complete and utter GLEE...you go people....lets show 'em what TRUE Americans can do when we stick together.....

(-_-)