Iran vs Israel: What The Media Wants You To Forget

reply to post by TXRabbit


not really.

I am educated in the facts and don't hide my head in the sand to the facts of this matter.

Read a bit of history, please.

Israel has had to take on between 2 and 4 muslim countries @ a time.

Their superior tactic's has proven too much for the other countries....

However, it is only a matter of time before they try it again.

The only thing that stops the muslim hoards from coming is the fact they know they will only have glass bowels to go back to.

There is the stand off, muslims have the numbers and Israel counters it with nuclear weapons.

It is balance of power/terror.

To allow Iran to have nuclear weapons will destroy this even state of affairs.

this is what some media really want you to forget.

Originally posted by AdmiralObamaGFOL
Iraq is a terrorist nation run by an illegit government that oppresses and kills its own citizens. The premise of this thread is ABSURD.

It boils down to- Who do we trust with nukes?

Israel- which has them and has never used them, but will for self defense as would all other countries with them

OR

Iran- which will soon have them and also promises the extinction of Israel and currently exports its terror in Iraq and Afganistan.

This post is proof that the cultural programming is working quite well. You have been successfully convinced that Israel is a force for peace and stability in the region and that Iran is the opposite.

The reality is that Israel and her American allies have been responsible for more deaths in the mideast in the past 10 years than all Arab states combined, not to mention Iran.

If you apply the same standards to both Israel and Iran, you will find that Iran comes out of the comparison quite well in fact.

1-Iran allows inspectors into it's nuclear sites / Israel does not
2- Iran has declared it's nuclear programs / Israel has not
3- Iran has not attacked a neighbor since the Iran/Iraq war / Israel currently occupies what should be a sovereign state (Palestine), and has annexed part of another (the Golan Heights).
4- Iran has never killed US troops via a direct and intentional attack / Israel has (read about the USS Liberty)

The moral to the story: Do your own research an don't let the media continue to program your thinking. This way lies freedom.

Originally posted by tyranny22
You mean an invasion like when the Jewish state seized land and claimed it as their own in 1948? In that case, yes ... full of hypocrisy.

Is this what they are teaching in schools these days? Ever wonder how a bunch of emaciated post concentration camp jews were able to "seize" anything?

If the UNs treatment of Israel is unfair, then these would than qualify as "unfair" as well (from a criminals point of view):

- forcing a sex offender to register
- banning a felon from purchasing a gun
- auditing a known tax cheat yearly
- random drug testing a known drug user on parole
- tailing someone who threatens the life of another

These are simple examples of how in a civilized society, actions cause consequences. If Iran wants to be treated like a civilized nation, it can: stop threatening to annihilate other nations, allow real elections, treat its women as equals, do away with its backwards theocracy.

While I think it's highly problematic that Israel don't play by the rules I also want to post these quotes:

"Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury." - Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

"As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map." - Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

"We ask the West to remove what they created sixty years ago [Israel] and if they do not listen to our recommendations, then the Palestinian nation and other nations will eventually do this for them." - Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

"The Zionist regime is a dried up and rotten tree which will be annihilated with one storm." - Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

"Israel cannot continue to exist in an atmosphere of peace and tranquillity without threats and aggression. If this regime stays on one inch of Palestine’s soil, it will continue its threats." - Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

"There is no doubt that the new wave [of attacks] in Palestine will wipe off this stigma [Israel] from the face of the Islamic world...the World without Zionism." - Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

"If some want to misuse the generosity of our nation, and re-examine what was previously examined, they should know the fire of the anger of the Iranian nation will be extremely burning and devastating." - Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

"The establishment of the Zionist regime was a move by the world oppressor against the Islamic world. The Islamic world will not let its historic enemy live in its heartland." - Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

Would you let this guy, or the Mullahs behind him, have access to nuclear technology?

Originally posted by Nichiren

Would you let this guy, or the Mullahs behind him, have access to nuclear technology?

Yes.

It is Their Right.

*And unlike Israel, Iran has signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and Iran allows IAEA inspectors full access to all their facilities - Unlike Israel; who does not.

-Creative translation by the way. Did you get it from that Israeli group MEMRI?

reply to post by Exuberant1


Sorry, but your statement puzzles me. Anybody who is hell bent to destroy another nation has lost the right to have access to nuclear material IMHO. What you're also forgetting is that the Mullahs in charge see it as their religious duty to destroy Israel. The "normal" rules of engagement for nukes do not apply here. Unfortunately reciprocal damage doesn't factor in.

Originally posted by Nichiren
The "normal" rules of engagement for nukes do not apply here.

Israel is not special.

It is expected that it follow the rules and sign the same Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty as everyone else.

Originally posted by sueloujo

Originally posted by mrmonsoon
reply to post by reassor

 

Do I believe their populations wants it, for the most part, no.

Do the ruling mullahs have it as a wet dream, YES!!!!

Have you noticed that since they can not convince the population of this, they are trying to make a religious war out of it.

Unfortunately, their are far too many that would foolishly do anything in the name of religion.

Lastly, even if they don't shot/drop a nuke themselves, I am sure they would give some to their lapdogs, Hamas and Hezbolla.

In this way they can nuke Israel and claim they did not do it.

[edit on 10/1/2009 by mrmonsoon]

The only threats I have seen or heard of are being made by Israel. Sanction threats by USA, France and UK....I see Iran keeping to International Law and Israel flagrantly ignoring it!

How is it that some people are so certain what Iran will do in the future? must be a rogue crystal ball out there...

I don't see why Iran would nuke, destroy and render un-livable the holiest of holy land.. a strike that would certainly vaporize most of the Palistinians Iran wants to liberate.

If vatican city was occupied, would the jesuits nuke their most cherished patch of dirt and destroy all the creepy ornate buildings they hold dear?

Burning down a village to save it and killing people to free them are empirical American traits.. assuming religious zealots in Iran would behave the same way is silly. IMO the mullahs religious beliefs wouldn't allow them to wipe their holy land / buildings it off the earth.

I'll will bless the day that Pink Floyd is granted to perform ": THE WALL" in Jerusalem..

Hiding behind a wall is for loosers.....:-)

reply to post by Exuberant1


You misunderstood me. Sorry for not being clear. What I meant by "normal" rules of engagement is that the Mullahs don't care if they're wiped out in the process. I'm not a mind reader, so I can only go by what they've stated publicly. Maybe it's just sabber rattling, but religious fanatics are unpredictable.

BTW: You're barking up the wrong tree here. The same international rules and standards for inspection must apply to Iran and Israel. No exceptions!

In my opinion,

Remove all nukes from EARTH !

Remove all boundaries from countries !

We call it Earth, the one and only!

Why oh why do the Israeli sympathysers continue to quote anyone, I mean anyone in Iran saying that Israel should be wiped off the map?

Is there a days training somewhere that offers sympathysers the one line rebuffs like " Iran said they would wipe israel off the face of the planet?


Watch my lips. " THAT WAS NEVER SAID AND FINE WELL YOU ALL KNOW IT !!

change the record a bit...yea?

respects

Originally posted by Nichiren
reply to post by Exuberant1

 

Sorry, but your statement puzzles me. Anybody who is hell bent to destroy another nation has lost the right to have access to nuclear material IMHO. What you're also forgetting is that the Mullahs in charge see it as their religious duty to destroy Israel. The "normal" rules of engagement for nukes do not apply here. Unfortunately reciprocal damage doesn't factor in.

The US was / is hell bent on destroying Iraq. Israel, Iran.

The mullahs see it as their "religious duty" to decimate & destroy their holy land?? really? I'd like to see where they made that claim.

Why would they nuke land they cherish and want returned???.

Rendering Israel un-livable for whatever 1000s of years means they can't friggn pray there. A nuke would also summarily slaughter apocalyptic numbers of their Palestinian brothers & sisters.. the people Iran wants to liberate. That makes zero sense.

If your most loved classic car was stolen and you wanted it back in good working order, would you bomb it to smithereens killing the thief and a few dozen friends in the process?

Sure, Iran wants the Israeli govt gone.. not a surprise, most of the locals share that sentiment. Imagine how un-popular a Crips lemonade stand would be placed in the middle of a Bloods neighborhood .. that's Israel.

Originally posted by Red_Fox
We should have a close watch over Pakistan and India, two nuclear super-powers which can resolve one day to a nuclear war over water-dispute.

You are mistaken about India my friend.

India has a declared nuclear no-first-use policy and is in the process of developing a nuclear doctrine based on "credible minimum deterrence." In August 1999, the Indian government released a draft of the doctrine[see link] which asserts that nuclear weapons are solely for deterrence and that India will pursue a policy of "retaliation only". The document also maintains that India "will not be the first to initiate a nuclear first strike, but will respond with punitive retaliation should deterrence fail" and that decisions to authorize the use of nuclear weapons would be made by the Prime Minister or his 'designated successor(s).'"[see link]

According to the NRDC, despite the escalation of tensions between India and Pakistan in 2001-2002, India remains committed to its nuclear no-first-use policy.

Here is a link to Draft Report of National Security Advisory Board on Indian Nuclear Doctrine

In laymans word, No first use (NFU) refers to a pledge or a policy by a nuclear power to not use nuclear weapons as a mean of warfare unless first attacked by an adversary using nuclear weapons. The concept can also be applied to chemical or biological warfare.

Rest assured, any Nuclear attack on India will be responded too.

[edit on 2-10-2009 by December_Rain]

[edit on 2-10-2009 by December_Rain]

reply to post by Phedreus


I knew it wouldn't take long.

I'm not the only one who sees it right? I'm not alone in thinking the Israeli government have an entire army of propaganda merchants on the internet?

The evidence speaks for itself, Israeli leadership has zero credibility.

I don't speak against the people of Israel, I speak against their disgusting government and their truly horrific leadership mentality.

When Israel attacks Iran, I'll be in the streets protesting and demanding that MY government sever all ties with that despicable power, which is exactly what we should have done when they started openly slaughtering people in Gaza.

Originally posted by djusdjus
jew baiting even here hmmn?

what is this, rense.com? lol

while I don't agree with many of the policies of the Israeli government, I refuse to demonize them like muslims have been demonized and dehumanized over the last decade or so.

I don't think dehumanizing israelis is apropo either and is in fact as low minded as the other.

I didn't realize that ATS supported Hate though. Questioning is one thing, but really, these diatribes go a bit far.

fascinating.

Both of my posts are deleted but this stays? This site is bullsh!t.

Pointing out that people come on here to derail threads about Israel.

Accusing nearly everyone in the thread as being hateful and Jew-baiting.

Not only did he accuse everyone in this thread as such, but he accused the entirety of ATS as being a site that "supports hate". Yeah.. I guess that flies and my posts don't?



[edit on 2-10-2009 by SyphonX]

I knew it wouldn't take long.

I'm not the only one who sees it right? I'm not alone in thinking the Israeli government have an entire army of propaganda merchants on the internet?

The beauty of it is that they have the populace so programmed that they don't even have to pay people to lobby for them anymore. They have a global network of PR reps who parrot their "politically correct" lines for free.

reply to post by zupreme

Trouble In The Promised Land:
Sympathy – Israel’s Weapon Of Mass Illusion

War is such a vile and twisted word; It runs over the tongue like a bitter aftertaste while lacerating the veins of morality flowing from within it at the same time.
Campaigns to promote war are often laced with perverse amounts of sympathy, empathy and reassurance from oligarchical governing bodies - during which deceit is used to wage battles on the minds of ignorant citizens.
During campaigning efforts there are character roles,just like in theater,which are assigned to each cast member of the war:

- The Victims(s)
- The Hero(s)
- The Anti-Hero(s)

Todays victims,theatrically speaking, have turned into stock characters,meaning they are “conventional or stereotypical through repeated use in particular types of stories”. Stock characters are instantly recognizable to readers or audience members.

For those of us who haven’t been watching the current play, Israel:Trouble In The Promised Land, we are currently on Act VIII,Scene I:Yankee Doodle Dandy.

The key players are summarized as follows:
Israel (The Victim): A stock character who has a plethora of lines,all of which are usually given with typical emphasis to remind other characters of the Holocaust and Nazi’s. This character is always the victim during times of conflict,regardless of actions and misdeeds. Does not have to comply with rule of law.
The United States (The Hero): Wielding the sword of democratic freedom via unsubstantiated wars and unjust laws (i.e Patriot Act). Empathetic towards the victim (i.e Israel) and always comes to the aid of the alleged victimized dame in distress.
Iran,Palestinians,Arabs/Brown People (Anti-Hero’s): Usually they are displayed as being cruel forces bent on creating friction between themselves,the Hero and Victim. Though they follow the rules of the law (i.e UN,International Law,Geneva Conventions etc) they are always the evildoers – regardless.
Americans/Europeans/Western Society:Bumbling characters who usually feign ignorance and refuse to understand the drums of war before battles begin to wage due to their oligarchical governing bodies. Apathetic.

Pushing back all of the drama let’s try and look at this through an even simpler lense shall we?

Israel is always the victim in our media and the United State of America is always the shining bright guardian of freedom and justice whilst any voice of dissent found in the Middle East or elsewhere are branded,swiftly, as being “Anti-Democracy” or the like.
Watching all of this continue over and over again is like sitting through a horrible movie you’ve seen a million times yet we feel the need to press rewind again.

The scene we currently see ourselves in has the victims shouting incessantly about the Holocaust while claiming that Iran are anti-Semitic; Bent on sending all of the “Jews into the sea” – a fallacious argument with no balls and no bearings.
So much idiocy,so little time.

The story of the Promised Land has been blanketed with half-truths, fallacies and deceit. Roles have been stolen and a handful of actors are now masquerading themselves;Trying to steal the parts of other characters in order to garner sympathetic support.

In reality Israel is not the victim:
More than 8 wars have been started and or induced by the illegal state since its creation in 1948 via the Balfour Declaration.

In reality the United States of America is not the hero:
Afghanistan,Iraq,Pakistan,Somalia [and soon Iran]- all victims of American imperialism which is hell bent on stealing from countries their natural resources and leaving them with a dry and barren land,raped women and children who cannot even fathom a day where the sun shall shine again as it did before.

In reality The Middle East is not the problem:
Western Occupying Regimes are the problem.
Occupying their land,killing their people while trying to ram democratic ideals down their throats – Ironically none of these “democratic” nations follow their own values.

Any rational individual would assume that some of us would have learned from past mistakes and misadventures but unfortunately some of us do not understand rationality or logic enough to see passed all of the political theatrics.

The United States and Israel are now trying to push another war on us,with Iran, and many people are falling for the bait – hook,line and sinker.
What is it going to take for you all to wake up and see that the hand of imperialism is still holding us by the necks?

Another war?
More dead bodies piling up?

I don’t know what it’s going to take but the lot of you who are still sitting the middle need to get on the ball. Feigning ignorance doesn’t work anymore – when you see evil,hear evil and smell evil you don’t hide under the sheets. You face the issue head on.

Iran isn’t the embodiment of theatrical anti-heroism in this situation.

We are.

We are the Anti-Heros.

politicaltheatrics.org...

S&F!
Israel has violated several hundred UN treaties and the U.S. refuses to sign any treaties involving any criticism towards Israel. The reason everyone is pushing for a non nuclear middle east and eventual nuclear free world is so that Israel will be the last remaining nuclear power.
We will not see a nuclear free middle east without war. War is on the NWO agenda. Everyone has been brainwashed to believe that before there can be peace, there must be war. Israel will probably watch the US and Russia and all other nuclear players destroy themselves, all the while being protected by the best missile defense shield, and then move in for the final blow to destroy whoever is left.

I am afraid Israel has ended on a sort of ..what's it called.. catch22?? situation. Most Isreli's(note that I did not say "Jews"!) I know are quite leftish and do not stand negatively towards a palestinian state..far from it!! They even mused about the possibilities for tourism if they could have an Israel-Palestine-Libanon Strip of resorts and such, a co-operation of sorts. The climate, the land, it's bloody perfect for tourism.

Problem is that Neth. and his hawks have gathered the mad religious right behind them in the knesseth and they are hell bent on claiming their "holy land" , thus, against the wishes of most Israeli's, keep on behaving like an old fashioned colonial power.
They threw Israel back to the level of the deplorable religion-driven Arab states around them .Only thinking in terms of "conquering", " overpowering" , "ruling" and "The one and only God" with basically the same religion-driven hatred towards the Arabs, that The Arabs have against Israel. However, the current power of f.i. ultra-right-wing hassidim an such is only part of the problem.

The only hope we have for peace in The Middle East is not pointing our fingers towards Israel, or Iran or Syria or whatever nation, but adressing the Arab World as a whole that they should stop manipulating their populace by inciting hatred and fear towards a bloody tiny country next to the sea. Israel/The Jews/palestinians are pawns in a far greater game of power, one that kings and mullah's and mufti's and great-visors have been playing for centuries, and those games were seriously upset by the sudden rise of a modern, powerfull, rich, western nation in their midst. THAT is what the arabs hate, the fact that strawberries suddenly grew on formerly considered useless, desert land, that oranges could be cultivated in desert area's ...Desert Land that the Jews paid rather large sums for.
They hated the fact that Israeli's used western-technologies and...the horror.."Democracy" and became a filthy rich country. It proved that the old system of religion-controlled dictatorships didn't work anymore. Oil temporarily saved their butts, but it's running out...

Yes, Israel has nukes, bet Your butt they have. I would be laughing my behind off if Iran or any other nation tried a "first strike" .. but they won't ,however much armsdealers would like it, however much right-wing political spinners in The USA would like it. Howevermuch some Zionist nut-cases salivate at the thought.

Arab nations have had their a$$es handed to them on several occasions (Yom Kippur, anyone? six-day war??) by the Israeli's. They all know they are facing the "glassification" of their countries. Israel has shown, on several occasions, that they have no qualms about hitting anyone everywhere they please. Arabs , and especially their nasty little dictatorial kings, are not stupid. And, on a side -note, they NEED Israel as a scape-goat for everything that is wrong in their own corrupt, poverty-stricken nations.. Sooo destroying Israel would be counter-productive. It's higher politics and manipulation.

The only one that COULD mess-up really bad, is The USA if it deems it neccesary to invade Iran, or some other hair-brained initiative (a speciality from the CIA and the NSA...) Given the eclatant "success" of the Iraq-debacle, I really doubt if TPTB feel the need for it.. Let alone the fact that America is technically BROKE! What would TPTB do..borrow more monopoly money from The Fed? From China (or, cherish the irony..America's oil-rich friends in The Middle east???)

edited for "thick finger syndrome"

[edit on 10/2/2009 by diakrite]