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Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Donny 4 million
Baloney.
You keep flooding these threads with this "source", although it's been noted over and over again that...
This article comes from
Tom Flocco.com
....is a website full of lies, misconceptions and intenional misdirection. It is patently obvious, and has been shown that this "Tom Flocco" is nothing more than an insitgator with no credibility.
This "wive's tale" has been floating around on the blogosphere...and just won't go away, because that is the very nature of the Web.
Lies, gags and hoaxes that get started, then grow into having a life of their own.
Of course, a simple search into the veracity of this "person" will reveal that it is a load of bull flop.
Tell me weedy about the missing Raytheon execs?
Those execs could cause a plane to fly any way a plane-- can fly.
Your entire rant on this thread...
I can't help but chuckle a bit the way you continually pounce on the information.
It must be ssoooo close to the bone.
50 miles...exact position and altitude unknown. That is a LARGE chunk of airspace to look for a little 200-foot long airplane that doesn't wish to be found.
Originally posted by trebor451
Originally posted by Boone 870
reply to post by Q24-7
Something similar happened to me when I still had posting privileges over there, Q24-7. I was called a racist because I didn't believe what some of the NOC/ONA eyewitnesses claim they saw. And then I was put on moderated response by the Grand Poobah himself.
The concept of free speech eludes that bunch. You'll find that the moderators here at ATS are much fairer.
Me three. They don't like dissenting views over there - its tow the party line of hit the highway. You either agree with them or you are out. Some "discussion board". More like a bunch of inter-breeding hillbillies with few teeth and fewer brain cells. That's why that whole place is really a club rather than some sort of formal "organization" or "association".
And the arrogance...is amazing. When TF brings it over here its just hilarious.
Originally posted by Boone 870
reply to post by weedwhacker
50 miles...exact position and altitude unknown. That is a LARGE chunk of airspace to look for a little 200-foot long airplane that doesn't wish to be found.
WW, don't fall for the "Flight 77 was tracked from 50 miles out" claim of Turbofan's... it's bunk. In typical truther fashion, he ignores the overwhelming majority of evidence that proves Mineta was referring to Flight 93 instead of Flight 77.
No one raised the alarm about Flight 77 being in Washington's airspace until Danielle O'Brien noticed it when it was 10 miles west of KDCA. The military was unaware of its hijacking until it was a few miles west of the Pentagon, after making its 270° turn.
Actually, Mineta has never claimed to have overheard a stand down order. He has always stated that he believed it was a shootdown order.
Okay before I post what I wanted to post...why is it that the testimony of the Secretary of Transportation on this subject matter immaterial? He was there in the bunker with Cheney, a known prevaricator (WMD, anyone?) and said in both the 9-11 commission and on shows like Meet the Press that they were tracking it much farther than "10" miles out. He also claims to have heard "stand down" orders.
I've seen no reason to believe he is disreputable. However, he has made a few erroneous claims regarding 9/11.
Is he also a disreputable person and if so, why?
Originally posted by Boone 870
reply to post by A Fortiori
Actually, Mineta has never claimed to have overheard a stand down order. He has always stated that he believed it was a shootdown order.
Okay before I post what I wanted to post...why is it that the testimony of the Secretary of Transportation on this subject matter immaterial? He was there in the bunker with Cheney, a known prevaricator (WMD, anyone?) and said in both the 9-11 commission and on shows like Meet the Press that they were tracking it much farther than "10" miles out. He also claims to have heard "stand down" orders.
I've seen no reason to believe he is disreputable. However, he has made a few erroneous claims regarding 9/11.
Is he also a disreputable person and if so, why?
Originally posted by Boone 870
reply to post by A Fortiori
Okay before I post what I wanted to post...why is it that the testimony of the Secretary of Transportation on this subject matter immaterial? He was there in the bunker with Cheney, a known prevaricator (WMD, anyone?) and said in both the 9-11 commission and on shows like Meet the Press that they were tracking it much farther than "10" miles out. He also claims to have heard "stand down" orders.
Actually, Mineta has never claimed to have overheard a stand down order. He has always stated that he believed it was a shootdown order.
Why erroneous? Just curious. He claims to have been in the bunker. Who refuted it? If it was anyone in the Bush administration you needn't bother posting a quote for me--post for others, but they are unscrupulous liars as far as I am concerned.
(bolding added for emphasis)
And a little later on, someone said, "Mr. Vice President, there's a plane 50-miles out." So I was talking to Monte Belger, the Deputy Director of the FAA, and I said, "Monte, what do you have 50-miles out?"
He said, "Well, we have a target, bogey, on the radar, but the transponder's been turned off, so we have no identification of this aircraft. We don't know who it is. We don't know what altitude it's at, speed or anything else. All we're doing is watching with the sweep of the radar, the dot moving from position to position."
So then someone came in, the same person came in and said, "Mr. Vice President, it -- the plane's 30-miles out." So I said, "Monte, can you see it, and where is it in relationship to the ground?"
He said, "Well, that's difficult to really determine. I would guess it's somewhere between Great Falls and National Airport, coming what they call the DRA, the down river approach."
And so then the person came in and said, "Mr. Vice President, the plane's ten-miles out," and so I said, "Monte, where is it?" and he said, "Well, I'm not really sure but I'd be guessing somewhere maybe between the USA Today building and, and National Airport."
Originally posted by Boone 870
reply to post by A Fortiori
Why erroneous? Just curious. He claims to have been in the bunker. Who refuted it? If it was anyone in the Bush administration you needn't bother posting a quote for me--post for others, but they are unscrupulous liars as far as I am concerned.
Mineta refutes himself in a September 11 2002 interview on MSNBC. Here's what he had to say-
(bolding added for emphasis)
And a little later on, someone said, "Mr. Vice President, there's a plane 50-miles out." So I was talking to Monte Belger, the Deputy Director of the FAA, and I said, "Monte, what do you have 50-miles out?"
He said, "Well, we have a target, bogey, on the radar, but the transponder's been turned off, so we have no identification of this aircraft. We don't know who it is. We don't know what altitude it's at, speed or anything else. All we're doing is watching with the sweep of the radar, the dot moving from position to position."
So then someone came in, the same person came in and said, "Mr. Vice President, it -- the plane's 30-miles out." So I said, "Monte, can you see it, and where is it in relationship to the ground?"
He said, "Well, that's difficult to really determine. I would guess it's somewhere between Great Falls and National Airport, coming what they call the DRA, the down river approach."
And so then the person came in and said, "Mr. Vice President, the plane's ten-miles out," and so I said, "Monte, where is it?" and he said, "Well, I'm not really sure but I'd be guessing somewhere maybe between the USA Today building and, and National Airport."
Mineta mentions four specific geographical locations when describing the approach of the incoming aircraft:
1) Great Falls
2) National Airport
3) Down River Approach or DRA
4) USA Today building
In the below image, I have highlighted the four references he used and included Flight 77's actual approach path (orange dots). The red line represents the Down River Approach:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/3e102672edb5.jpg[/atsimg]
As you can see in the above image, the aircraft Mineta is describing in no way matches the actual flight path of American 77. He is describing the projected flight path of Phantom 93, I'll add more in my next post.
The aircraft appeared to be heading toward Washington Center airspace. In an attempt to expedite the situation I put a change of routing to reflect HGR--> DCA. This was only to forward to information to the sectors the aircraft appeared to be tracking toward. PDF, page 11
.
At approximately 10:15 a.m., Chief Schwartz ordered the immediate evacuation of the incident site. The FBI had warned him that a second hijacked airliner was flying on a course toward the Pentagon and was 20 minutes away. Responders were ordered to take shelter beneath one of the nearby highway overpasses. Link, page A-13
Originally posted by A Fortiori
I suggest you edit your text or I am writing the mods. It is disrespectful to people of southern or Appalachian locales, it is rude, and it is mean-spirited.
You, Sir, are a bully. You are so impressed with yourself that you can't see straight. Neither WW or Boone have chosen to go this vicious route you are taking and for good reason--it is a display of abominable manners.
Originally posted by A Fortiori
No, he did claim it was a "stand down". I'll lexus it tomorrow.
Originally posted by trebor451
Originally posted by A Fortiori
No, he did claim it was a "stand down". I'll lexus it tomorrow.
Have you "lexused" this quote yet?
Slightly OT:
And I simply *must* point out that, in keeping with your admonition on another post of my using a "run-on sentence", your creation and use of "lexus" as a verb (not to mention the lexiconological butchering of the Internet Searchable Directory of Online Sources "LexisNexis", which I can only assume you are referring to) is not generally looked upon in a favorable manner by those who wish to maintain a pure, articulate and precise english language.
I don't agree with your timeline as in, " I don't agree with your comments".
THis was NOT a surprise attack by any stretch of your imagination.
The impact time is also incorrect as stated by the NTSB...but you can figure that one out.
Understand what I mean when ATC should have been alarmed that an aircraft tracked on RADAR was heading into the class B region knowing your country was under attack.
Hijacking
The last routine radio communication from the flight was transmitted at 8:51 a.m. The hijackers on the flight were Hani Hanjour (pilot), along with Nawaf al-Hazmi, Salem al-Hazmi, Majed Moqed, and Khalid al-Mihdhar. At 8:54 a.m., the aircraft began to deviate from course and turn back towards Washington, D.C. Phone calls were made from the plane, using airphones, by Renee May and by Barbara Olson.
The transponder on the aircraft was turned off after it was hijacked, making it difficult for air traffic controllers to locate it once it turned around. At 9:21 a.m., the Herndon Control Center (of the FAA) knew that Flight 77 was missing and asked the Dulles terminal control facility to look for primary targets on the radar. At 9:32, they found one. Several of the Dulles controllers "observed a primary radar target tracking eastbound at a high rate of speed" and notified Reagan National Airport. FAA personnel at both Reagan National and Dulles airports notified the Secret Service.
At 9:34 a.m., NEADS (Northeast Air Defense Sector) contacted the FAA's Washington Center, regarding American Airlines Flight 11 (already crashed, but they thought it was still airborne). In the course of the conversation, a Washington Center manager informed NEADS: "We're looking-we also lost American 77." This was the first notice to the military that American Airlines Flight 77 was missing, giving them 3-4 minutes to respond.
Are you sure you're a pilot? Did I say P-56 encompassed the Pentagon? Read my post again.
Within that region are two prohibited airspaces.
Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Donny 4 million
Tell me weedy about the missing Raytheon execs?
They died when American Airlines Flight 77 hit the Pentagon.
No. That is bunk. You just don't seem to care to do better research, and learn more. It's far easier to read crap on the Web, and take it for "truth" because you happen to like something that already fits a pre-conceived paranoid idea.
[b
You have never debunked anything
By my count there are at least FOUR instances (maybe more) of this "Tom Flocco" nonsense being posted again, and again, and again....and now again.
Thats why I post it 4 times and you have debunked NADA
REAL research, with open minds, will out the truth.
It is jamb packed with comprehensive, stupendous logic.
Compound with hours of un- simulated out of the cockpit endeavor.
True Americans with old west tenacity. Plodding head long into the foul wind of the contrived and dastardly Snidely Whiplash Omission Commission propaganda.
The "Tom Flocco" propaganda has been shown to be WRONG many, many times.
Must really be some deep dark secret you are hiding behind your extensive long and tireing litney of denial. Like a troubled child hiding behind some thing when he has soiled his britches.