Heaven???? Why would you want to go there?

OP you gotta be ready to deal with the insults. I am so tired of trying to be nice. The problem with people like JIT is they have no true and honest conrete proof other than stories. Now I will line up first and say I could be wrong. I am a pagan who looks to the Book of the Dead and Isis. I feel she is real and true but the reason I don't get into big threads trying to prove her is that just like every other deity, you cannot prove it and neither can I.

Responses like what you received will always come whether you spam or ask an honest question. I asked an honest question and got bulldogged by certain posters on BTS who told me it was a ridiculous question and that I was ridiculous. See here is what I see in this. A few options if you will...

1. If you ask an honest question you get beat for questioning the bible and God

2. If you do blasphemy they should do as their bible says and get over it before ridiculing you

3. Thicker skin is needed before entering a forum

It's almost as if any opposition to the 'word' would be outlawed if some people had their way.

Now OP...as for heaven, I don't believe in heaven as described their. I believe heaven is when you become part of the bigger whole, the universe if you will. That heaven you described seems too exclusive and it just seems like puppetry to me. Christianity tells me God is all and omniscent. He knows if you are going to heaven already, before you are even born so I have a real hard time think that is free will.

Just my two cents if you don't mind

and remember this...if a poster attacks mostly your grammar it is probably because they have little else to attack.

-Kyo

No KYO, his OP was spam bait imo, and I was joking in the other responses.

I see this spam bait all the time with completely irrelevant statements that bait christians into a flame war.

and so that's why i said.

" if the OP is sincere ask God, he will lead you to the answers "

and I apologized.


spammars, if he is one, don't deserve respect whatsoever.


peace.

[edit on 5-10-2009 by JesusisTruth]

you're absolutely correct...they don't deserve it but if it is spam...ignore and walk away

I asked you a perfectly legit question once and you called it foolish so how am I to trust your judgement?

I think this OP is just as legit, albeit it a bit rough around the edges

-Kyo

I am legit. So far the only one I see spamming here is JesusisTruth.

By the way, again, I am a MRS, remember, that means not a boy. Second, I asked you some questions, do you know the answers? If you do not, I will be happy to tell you.

Kyo, I dont mind insults at all. I incourage them in fact. I know my information well, and do not mind at all backing up my beliefs. I can not be brushed off as being ignorant on the subject.

I too share several Pagan beliefs. I applaud you for finding something you know to be true and having the guts to stand up for it. I love how there is so much Paganism mixed in with Christianity. Did you know that the first person to put some letters together and call it the bible was origianially a Pagan? One of the books he wanted included was called the Sheherd of Hermes or Shephard of Hermas. You should read about it sometime I think you would enjoy it. Some others in the group of men who got together to do this said it should not be included because it inspired people to go beyond the church. They came up with strict ideas of what to believe and how to practice and only included books that backed that up. There were also books that were left out because it encouraged people to have a relationship with God with out the mediation of the church. One being the book of Enoch or Henoch. Oddly enough the others who compiled their own bibles made sure to include such books.

[edit on 5-10-2009 by mrsdudara]

OP

You refuse to ask questions and search for the truth, because you are afraid you will not go to heaven. You spend your free time in church because you believe it will increase your chances of going to heaven


It's statements like that, that generalization, and other irrelevant statements in the OP which Kyo calls rough around the edges, I call what seems to be a spammar.

granted Kyo is correct. I should of answered with more sincerity.


And like I said if OP is sincere, than I was wrong. I have no problem admitting I am wrong.

MRS.... lol

ladies in the house.

nah... I'll let someone wiser than me answer the OP, i already answered best i could.


just watch how you word your OP or it could be taken as spam bait.

and Kyo email me personally what question you have, I don't remember.

peace.

Did you know that the first person to put some letters together and call it the bible was origianially a Pagan?


OP, that is completely not true. The people who put the bible together were the Cathlic Church, some books were left out because of legitimacy issues. Some were left out because of the size of the bible itself.

They the catholic church decided what books were to go in the bible, and the Catholic Church believe specifically that Christ is the only son of God, God in the flesh, and jesus condemned paganism not only in the OT but the NT.

so I don't understand where you get this info?


As far as hermes.. The book didn't contain anything in it out of the norm.



hermes 3:4 "Behold, the God of Hosts, Who by His invisible and mighty power and by His great wisdom created the world, and by His glorious purpose clothed His creation with comeliness, and by His strong word fixed the heaven, and founded the earth upon the waters, and by His own wisdom and providence (formed His holy Church), which also He blessed-behold, He removeth the heavens and the mountains and the hills and the seas, and all things are made level for His elect, that He may fulfill to them the promise which He promised with great glory and rejoicing, if so be that they shall keep the ordinances of God, which they received, with great faith.



and so basically it reafirms what the gospels say, infact, it does more to prove imo the church than some of the gospels themselves, this is all throughout Hermes writings.


Other uses of apocrypha developed over the history of Western Christianity. The Gelasian Decree refers to religious works by church fathers Eusebius, Tertullian and Clement of Alexandria as apocrypha. Augustine defined the word as meaning simply "obscurity of origin," implying that any book of unknown authorship or questionable authenticity would be considered as apocrypha. On the other hand, Jerome (in Protogus Galeatus) declared that all books outside the Hebrew canon were apocryphal. In practice, Jerome treated some books outside the Hebrew canon as if they were canonical, and the Western Church did not accept Jerome's definition of apocrypha, instead retaining the word's prior meaning (see: Deuterocanon). As a result, various church authorities labeled different books as apocrypha, treating them with varying levels of regard.


and the Church God gave specific power to lose and bind on Earth, interpet scripture and so on.



The book of hermes was considered legitimate by the early church and also some didn't see it legitimate, so they weren't quite agreeable on the legitimacy of the text like they were the gospels.

peace.

[edit on 5-10-2009 by JesusisTruth]

Heaven seems like a nice idea, but if it exists it will be a very strange place, Can one repent their sins? if so it might be full of nice peadophiles (if you get what i mean by this your very insightful, but its not meant to cause offence) the bible shows me that heaven is place for the strange, people that do not think bad thoughts, that have not broken one of the ten commandments etc. People like that are people i dont want to accociate with, i like trial and error. I would much rather the theories of the quantam take me to another dimension where the pressures of the world are ni. But if there is nothing after death then so be it, as we wont be around to see how bad the existance of nothing is and i can die both right and wrong. What aload of nonsensical rubbish i have just written.

I personally think that after this life, you will go through a period of time where you get to fully understand your life. You will see every action and reaction. You will feel the full force of your existance. I dont think anyone is forgiven until they fully understand what they have done. Even then it depends on if the person you caused harm to intentionally or not forgives you. However on the same note, after a person fully understands the whole scope of things perhaps they will be more likely to forgive.

I fully believe in Purgatory. I believe in an existance after Purgatory. I just do not believe it is a simple laid back pain free fields of pretty flowers kind of place. I dont think God would call that perfection. Perfection comes with balance. I think that heaven will be a lot more tough than it is here. If God is perfection, think of what he deals with on a day to day basis compaired with what you have had to deal with on your worst days. Maybe when we get half way there, we will look back to our life here and think of it as the heaven most people believe in.

reply to post by JesusisTruth


Can you please provide a link to where you got your information, and quotes where it is needed. I would hate for you to get in trouble for plagiarism.

Opinions very on Hermes

What are your opinions on Enoch?

Am I also take it your are very anti Catholic?

reply to post by TarzanBeta


I see somebody has more than just a basic understanding of the bible since I never even mentioned the 144,000 in my initial post. I usually don't, as it just complicates, the understanding of the two hopes.

But let me ask you a question then, since you know that.

What future hope do you have?

Originally posted by mrsdudara I just do not believe it is a simple laid back pain free fields of pretty flowers kind of place. I dont think God would call that perfection. Perfection comes with balance. I think that heaven will be a lot more tough than it is here. If God is perfection, think of what he deals with on a day to day basis compaired with what you have had to deal with on your worst days. Maybe when we get half way there, we will look back to our life here and think of it as the heaven most people believe in.

What wrong with flowers??? Why keep flower bashing?? Without flowers, there won't be any vegetation, all life will be extant without flowers!!!

When everything is extant, that is not perfection!! We need perfection pls pls!!

reply to post by ahnggk


HAHAhaha sorry 'bout the flowers haha. Dont get me wrong, I love fowers and would hate to live with out them. But GEEZZZZ you know what Im getting at .....right?


As for JesusisTruth's post for those of you who want to read up on it, that paragraph comes from either wiki or answers when you look up apocrapha.

Other uses of apocrypha developed over the history of Western Christianity. The Gelasian Decree refers to religious works by church fathers Eusebius, Tertullian and Clement of Alexandria as apocrypha. Augustine defined the word as meaning simply "obscurity of origin," implying that any book of unknown authorship or questionable authenticity would be considered as apocrypha. On the other hand, Jerome (in Protogus Galeatus) declared that all books outside the Hebrew canon were apocryphal.[4] In practice, Jerome treated some books outside the Hebrew canon as if they were canonical, and the Western Church did not accept Jerome's definition of apocrypha, instead retaining the word's prior meaning (see: Deuterocanon). As a result, various church authorities labeled different books as apocrypha, treating them with varying levels of regard.

here
answers twards the end under other meanings
and here
Wiki under other meanings

Hermes was not included because his view on Jesus varied a bit from what the Catholics at that time were going for. Technically, I do not think it varried, just gave a more detailed explination, one which I do happen to agree with.
Early Christian Writings

reply to post by mrsdudara


I want to go to heaven because that's where God is. it's God's job to rebuke and battle Satan, not mine. God is knowledge, and my Father, I couldn't imagine eternity without Him, apart from Him, apart from His perfect knowledge. i can sit with him, ask any question my heart desires.

Why wouldn't anyone want that?

reply to post by mrsdudara


"Heaven???? Why would you want to go there?"

Well...do we have a choice? Now I'm not saying we are going to "heaven." I call it the other place. But it doesn't matter what you call it. You're going whether you like it or not. Just like we are all going to die. No choice...

And Christians, FYI: you don't own heaven and you have no privelege over anyone. God is way beyond religion. Religion is a non-issue when you're dead. There is no religion in the after life. The after life just is. Religion is a human thing. God has nothing to do with it.

But back to your question: Call it what you want. It certainly must be better than this.

[edit on 15-10-2009 by Excitable_Boy]