Email to Every Woman on ATS: Through a Rapists Eyes - BEWARE - *The Crying Baby*

reply to post by WorldWarEnd


If you'd read Silo's opening post, you would have seen this.

Edited OP

[qupte]
ATS c3hamby brought to my attention some of the points in the original email were bogus. Thank you c3hamby.

Yet, even if some of the points are less than correct I truly believe using this as a template to discus how we can avoid rape situations is extremely important.


I don't see how much clearer that can be.



The thread has evolved past the original premise, and into a discussion about self defence and personal protection.

The OP is not "full of it" because they have made a conscientious effort to acknowledge the issue by editing their post.

So lets can the rhetoric and personal attacks huh? We're on a discussion board, and we're having a discussion.


[edit on 1/10/09 by neformore]

reply to post by ZombieOctopus

If I heard someone yelling "FIRE!" in the distance, I would assume there was actually a fire and call the fire department as I casually continue on my way...

...so I don't understand the whole fire thing.

The logic behind that is due to the fact in too many famous cases, yelling 'Help!' never brought any assistance. Witnesses questioned later gave excuses like they were too scared to get involved, they figured someone else would help, they considered 'Help' to be too vague, etc.

So people can be hesitant to respond to 'Help!' (although I'm glad to hear you're one of the good ones).

On the other hand, 'Fire!' brings people out because they're nosy and would want to see the drama. Then the crowd would scare off the attacker.

At least that is the way self defense instructors explain it. People are growing more selfish and less caring of their fellow citizens so might not come to the rescue upon hearing Help! But they're nosy and would run to watch a fire.

reply to post by silo13


I wish more women would listen to the idea of a hand gun.

My mom has asked if she could keep a knife in her car. Every damn time I tell her "You should keep a gun." Why? Because a prepared criminal is not going to be taken down by a middle aged woman with a small knife, unless she gets him completely off guard. And since he is prepared,she probably won't.

We live in a shall issue state. So it would be easy enough for her to get one. It's a skill I'm trying to reinforce her to get.

Seriously women, if you live in a shall issue concealed carry state, that doesn't have extremely unreasonable carry restrictions, get one.

- Rape is more likely to occur if the victim is physically appealing to the attacker - Rape is more likely to occur to victims who dress scantily

To say that one's attractiveness and clothing style makes one a more probable rape victim is incorrect. Rape is not an opportunistic, pleasure-seeking act. It is a complex behavior, and most individuals who rape are responding to their own past abuse; their actions defy normal logic, but have a logic all their own. No one asks or expects to be raped, or can be accused of making themselves a victim.

And I agree: trust your gut/intuition/instinct, and take action! Do something! That goes for everyone in a crisis situation. I don't know how many times I've come up on a car accident with injuries and a crowd of scared people on their cell-phones standing around crying and doing nothing.

reply to post by AshleyD


Yeah, we all know the famous story of Kitty Genevives (sp). I heard it when I was a junior in highschool, and it had a profound impact on me personally.

But women need to be very vocal if their attacked.. Because there are a lot of little kids around here, even some teenage ones. They will be just playing with each other, and occasionally you hear a scream.

It's hard to tell if their friend is just playing with them or if someone is trying to harm them.

One of the rapists in prison I heard from expected women to trying kicking him in the groin so he always wore a "cup" when stalking his prey. I bet he didn't wear shin guards though and if a guy grabs you from behind, it is just as effective to bring the heel of your shoe down his shin, scraping it hard and then stomping on the arch of his foot.

Shins are very sensitive. Also, ramming your fingers up their nose is quite the deterrent. It's so unexpected (and painful) that they'll probably release you immediately and tilt their head back away from the source of their pain at which point their throat is open to further attack with your other hand.

Another safety point for women is to never get onto an elevator when there's only a man in there. When the door opens, tell them you'll wait for the next one.

I've had men walking behind me on the street and through parking garages and I'll stop, look directly at them, cross to the other side of the street or whatever it takes to distance myself and just stand there watching them pass in front of me. It lets them know you're aware of them, it gives you a few seconds to prepare to fight or run, and it shifts that power and control back to you.

Also, "punk" jewelry makes a good weapon. I have one of those spikey metal leather bracelets. A backfist to the face with one of those on your wrists will give your attacker pause. I don't care much for punk jewelry (do they still call it that?) but I wear it when I know I may have to walk alone somewhere.

reply to post by silo13


From someone who has been there. If you are in a place or vehicle with people especially men, who speak a foriegn language you do not understand, leave. This has nothing to do with predjudice.

I was raped and left for dead when I was 15, I did not speak their language and had no idea what they were planning, right in front of me.

To this day if people start talking in another language I excuse myself.

reply to post by Miraj


Exactly. It's best to scream something intelligible instead of just 'Aaaaah!' Too many false alarms with regular screams like playing children, someone scared by a friend as a joke, teenagers having fun, etc.

It's best to scream actual words. Fire seems best and 'Help' is at least better than just wildly screaming.

Another safety point for women is to never get onto an elevator when there's only a man in there. When the door opens, tell them you'll wait for the next one.

Sorry but I had to laugh at that, jeees the fear created by the media has really got to you women hasnt it, no wonder men resort to rape when there all treated like second class people. What next, male/female segregation on public transport.

Originally posted by ROBL240
Another safety point for women is to never get onto an elevator when there's only a man in there. When the door opens, tell them you'll wait for the next one.

Sorry but I had to laugh at that, jeees the fear created by the media has really got to you women hasnt it, no wonder men resort to rape when there all treated like second class people. What next, male/female segregation on public transport.

Please stay in Manchester. Your attitude is disturbing. Not frightening, but disturbing. I refuse to give you the satisfaction of saying you scare me. And realistically, no creep in his right mind would want to face the wrath of my husband.

Well experience has taught me never to argue with a idiot, and if this thread is allowed to continue with its feminist prejudices against men then I have no option but to report it.

Pick your nose and stick your finger in your mouth.

Pretty sure that wouldn't stop a guy from raping you.

Just saying.

Originally posted by ROBL240
Well experience has taught me never to argue with a idiot, and if this thread is allowed to continue with its feminist prejudices against men then I have no option but to report it.

*bolding mine*

Umm? Yep. Moving along...
_________________________________________

There does seem to be an entire demographic that's being missed, or forgotten, so I'll add this bit of info. to an otherwise informative thread:

Most rapes are committed by someone the woman knows. This doesn't mean that "every male you know is a potential rapist," but it is established that stranger rapes constitute a minute number of rape percentage. The exact number however is often debated. It is conservatively estimated that only between 10 and 13 percent of all rapes are committed by strangers. Sometimes this estimation can go even as low as only 7 percent. However that number does not go above 15 percent by any reputable agency. That means even if you take the conservative numbers 87 to 90 percent of all rapes are by someone the victim knows.

These numbers take it out of popular perception about most rapes being "jump out of the bushes" and put them into a far more subtle and gray shaded category. That of human interactions, emotions, sexual conduct and expectations. This is why there is no "easy answer" about rape education...

That's the bad news. The good news, however, is that you can greatly reduce your risks by choosing who you associate with, learning about the sexual process, understanding boundaries -- both yours and other people's -- and understanding your powers and responsibilities.

Be safe.

[edit on 1-10-2009 by LadySkadi]

It is good to reduce your risks as much as possible. But in the end, there are risks that must be taken to avoid being considered a freak. So, you open the door to your ex-husband or to your neighbor or to a member of your church, because you don't want to be considered paranoid. And once in awhile, you may have to look back on that singular event as being the dumbest thing you ever did. Then, you have to forgive yourself, which is even harder than forgiving the one who betrayed your trust. Sadly, that is the world we live in, whether we are feminists or not.

I've seen posts about fighting back, using pepper spray, guns, eating boogers, defacating, etc.

The best way to avoid rape is to avoid the grasp of the attacker and put as much distance between you & the attacker as quickly as you can.

I read another comment that rapists target women who are attractive to them or dressed scantily. This is boardering on saying, "She deserved. She was asking for it.) Rape is a violent crime about power. It has NOTHING to do with the appearance of their target.

If you can't avoid his/her grasp, the best thing to do is submit (like the police officer said). You don't know what weapons the assailant may have on them. It's better to be a survivor of rape, than dead because you fought.

EXCEPTION: IF the assailant tries to get you to a remote area or into a vehicle, THEN fight, bite, kick, scream, run. It is better to be killed on the spot where someone is more likely to find you, than to be taken further away from the population only to be repeatedly tortured and most likely killed or left for dead.

As for carrying a weapon, unless you know techniques used to disarm and how to avoid being disarmed, I do not advise carrying a weapon. All you're doing is providing a weapon for the assailant to use against you once you've been disarmed (and probably injured in the process).

I am a Psychologist, a brown belt AND know how to disarm an assailant. With all the training and skills I have, I was still raped at gunpoint in broad daylight. The circumstances of my situation (which I will not detail) did not allow me to fight back in the moment.

The best weapon I had was keeping calm and paying attention to every detail of my attacker while he violated my body. The way he smelled, his accent, clothes, scars, tattoos, brand of cigarette he was smoking, where he dropped the cig butt, type of watch he was wearing, other jewelry, facial hair, eye color, etc.

Had I fought him, there is no doubt in my mind he would have pulled the trigger. Instead, I kept calm and paid attention to the details. My attacker was caught the same day. He was charged and found guilty for several other rapes in the area. He now sits in prison. Getting exactly what he gave to us.

My sister read once on a magazine stories of women that suffered were victims of attempted rape.

In one of the stories the woman escaped because she kept calm. I know that is easier said than done (specially for a man), but what she did was to keep calm and try to understand why that guy was trying to rape her, so she started talking to him and he started to talk to her and ended by letting her go and thanking her.

In another case the woman noticed that a man was following her and she stopped, faced him and told to him to stop doing that and go away, like she was talking to a child that was behaving badly, and the guy ran away.

What I think it's important is to keep calm and try to understand the type of person is on the other side. Rape is a type of crime that can have many different reasons behind it, but many (if not all) of those reasons are related to some kind of psychological problem, so understanding the reason behind that behaviour can help getting the control of the situation.

Another thing is to do just that, act as if you are really in control of the situation, most people will react as expected when someone appears to be in control.

The flow of rapists has come as a storm to Scandinavia aswell.

Since wearing a gun anywhere outside your home is illegal here, my fiancè and I got ourselves a Bordeaux Dogge, or sometimes referred to as a French Mastiff.

The dog is known for its great loyalty to its owner. It also is the dog with the strongest jaw.

The rottweiler is known for locking its jaw with a force of about 360lbs.
The average French Mastiff bites with a force of 556 lbs.
The dog was used by the ancient Romans in the war against the Greeks. The dog is also known for fighting bears and lions during the Roman empire.

The male French Mastiff can weigh up to 176lbs, and has the biggest head amongst all dogs.

I would say the French Mastiff is way more effective then a gun. If the owner is being threatened, the mastiff has the power to literally rip their arms straight off, and will never hesitate if the owner is in real danger.
They are adorable pets aswell. But what brought me to this dog first, was after I saw an old friend with his Mastiff, and the kind of loyalty the dog had to him. It goes beyond human loyalty.

[edit on 1-10-2009 by Beltha]

[edit on 1-10-2009 by Beltha]

[edit on 1-10-2009 by Beltha]

Stun guns ladies.

They work. Cops demonstrate this for us all the time.

I have known of incidents where rape has happened. A friend of mine a few years ago raped my best friend (who happens to be a chick). Needless to say, that person no longer dares to contact me for fear of what happened when I found out.

I am glad this thread was posted and Kudos to the OP. I am a dude and believe me, the one person I knew who did this paid for it dearly. He never went to jail because she didn't come forward in time to show any evidence. In fact, I was the lucky one that I didn't go to jail after what I did to him.

I am a firm believer in "what comes around goes around". And these people that do these terrible acts will get what is coming to them. (oh and I totally promote carrying a handgun. Legally of course)

You know, it starting to get old when you go to a thread, get interested in it, and minutes later start reading all the BS insults, thread killers, and just general rudeness that some people start throwing around.

This is a GREAT subject, with EXCELLENT intentions. Take it for what is was intended. You can never be reminded enough of how cruel the World can be.

Send it your sister, your mother, your grandmother, your neices, etc. You'll probably be thankful.

As a father of 2 girls, I take great pains in protecting them from crap like this. I'm going to have both of them read this thread so they can see the reality of mankind, and hopefully gain a valuable lesson.

Thank you silo. S&F