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Whoopi says its not "rape-rape"

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posted on Oct, 1 2009 @ 07:57 PM
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Originally posted by Aeons

Originally posted by John Matrix

Originally posted by Darth LuminaIt was common in the late 60's for 13 year old girls to have sex, never mind the 70's 80's 90's and this last decade. Stats clearly show the numbers of girls having sex at a young age has steadily increased.

It was common for 13 yr old girls to marry 25 and 30 year old men when North America was being settled.


No, it wasn't.

I know that the pedophile crowd says this alot.

But I actually look at these old pieces of paper while doing genealogy.

And it was not common.

The mean marriage age has consistently been in the mid twenties. From the 1500s on.


[edit on 2009/10/1 by Aeons]


My Grandmother? Fourteen. My aunts? 13, 16, 19. My Mother? 16.

I could go into my whole extended family, and it would be ABNORMAL for them to not have married and had children before twenty.

I think you don't know what you're talking about [*SNIP*].

 


Mod Note: Please play nice and remember civility and decorum.

[edit on 10/1/2009 by AshleyD]




posted on Oct, 1 2009 @ 08:14 PM
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Originally posted by A Fortiori
I don't quite no what to say to this besides: have you read the transcripts from the court case yet? Beyond the transcripts even...what you are arguing is close to obscene. This is pedophilia, however, you play it. Imagine Dick Cheney luring a girl to his swinging pad, plying her with drugs and then having sex with her. Even if you won't admit it here it paints a very different picture than this pathetic little director.


It is definitionally not Paedophilia. It is Ephebophilia; sexual attraction to young pubescent individuals. Ephebophilia is fairly common, especially amongst males.

Paedophilia, definitionally, is sexual attraction to pre-pubescent (Undeveloped) children.



Young women, yes. Children...if you are telling me that men in general are aroused by 13 year olds I will become a lesbian today.


Then go become a lesbian; a greater majority of males are sexually attracted to all females that display secondary sexual characteristics. Society dissuades such behaviors via laws invented to create a second class of children where none existed before. It breaks down into percentages, though;

A greater majority of men are attracted to females between the ages of 14 to 18 than the portion of males attracted to 12 through 15... but even that is still incredibly common.

It just is not talked about or discussed. There is also a very small subset (A definite minority) of people who are attracted only to people within a few years of their own age; this is as abnormal as Paedophilia is.

There are biological reasons for ALL of the above.



A thirteen year old is a seventh grader. MIDDLE SCHOOL.


Seventh Grade and Middle School did not exist prior to the twentieth century. Likewise, females were not historically educated in schools. Arranged marriages generally took place during the ages of 12 to 15, on account of the frailty of women and the likelihood that you wouldn't live to see 30... so getting to the breeding quick-like was quite important for societies prior to modern medicine.



I don't care how sexy a "middle schooler" is it is STILL PEDOPHILIA!!!!


Wrong again, see the above, Paedophilia is defined as attraction to pre-pubescent (Undeveloped) children usually below the age of nine.



And this event did not happen in her home, he wasn't drawn to her bedroom, she didn't take him to a hotel. None of the facts of the case support this, and EVEN IF SHE DID she is a child.


She is the secondary class of children which did not exist prior to the 1930's. Teenagers are not children. Teenagers are Young Adults due to the simple fact that they are capable of procreation.

You have been brainwashed by the modern age and are in need of some brain bleach.



Did you see her picture then and compare it to now? She hadn't developed her breasts yet, she was not a early bloomer. She looked like a kid that should be out skateboarding.


Perhaps true, I have seen no such pictures. If she was under sexual development, it's quite likely that Polanski is a Ephebophile.



And why do you have to know, exactly? He was convicted in a court of law after two lawyers presented their legal arguments. Enough is said. He is a convicted felon.


This is quite likely the most pertinent and salient part of your entire post, because all of this is true; he plead guilty to a crime, and when you flee after being convicted, there is no statute of limitations.

This case reminds me, tangentially, about the comic book store guy that was brought up on charges of child pornography for owning a Loli manga from Japan (Loli is artistic depictions of pre-pubescent children, usually females, engaging in sexual escepades), his Lawyer told him to plead guilty for lenience... which is stupid, since Loli is a form of drawn art, not photography, and no children were harmed in the making of it.



The case does not have to be rehashed. It is done. The individual in question has never recanted her story, she only said she would like to not have to think about it. Many victims of rape feel the same way. Read some psychological studies on it.


I've read some psychological studies. There is also a book by a now less respected psychologist which pointed out that most of the psychological trauma of rape victims is induced by society.

I think the fact that people feel a need to drag rape victims through a torrid affair of shame, obviousness and public scrutiny for the sake of "Justice" for the victim lends credence to the theory.



posted on Oct, 1 2009 @ 08:21 PM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Oct, 1 2009 @ 09:29 PM
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Originally posted by TheColdDragon



A japanese woman who is Twenty five is considered to be an "Old Maid" and the social stigma of it is that Mid-Twenties Japanese women are less desirable the older they are... Twenty five is the LITERAL societal cut-off age for desirable women.

Literally.





I have several Japanese female friends (yes, living in Japan) and they would LAUGH at that statement. That is really a stereotype in modern Japan. And my stepmother is Japanese and has many family members still over there. My stepmother married her first husband when she was 19 or 20.

Historically there have been many cultures that promoted marriage of young teenage girls. One of the reasons this became illegal in certain countries is because the law recognized the protection of the not yet fully developed mind of a minor.

"Another rationale comes from the fact that minors are generally economically, socially, and legally unequal to adults. By making it illegal for an adult to have sex with a minor, statutory rape laws aim to give the minor some protection against adults in a position of power over the youth."
(Source: en.wikipedia.org...)

And please, stop calling others in this thread who disagree with you "moron" and "idiot". Those kind of juvenile name calling tactics don't belong in a civil adult debate.

[edit on 1-10-2009 by Orion65]



posted on Oct, 1 2009 @ 09:46 PM
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Originally posted by TheColdDragon[/i

And now you prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you ARE a moron.


You know, I am now convinced what a troll you are in this thread, and taking it way off topic.

Perfect way to prove it is that you have resorted to calling people morons, and then proceed to tell people how knowlegeable you are on topics that have nothing to do with the topic.

The topic is about a 40 year man, giving a 13 year old alcohol, and drugs, and then raping her. It has nothing to do with your expertise in Japanese culture.

No matter how you disagree, you are in the minority. It is not normal for men to do this. I could care less if one of your aunts married somebody when they were 12, your family is not in the norm, although you might think it is.

A 13 year old is still a child. They need to be able to grow up without having to worry about nasty old men who want to stick their penis in their rears.

Why can't you understand that a 13 year old girl, the one the topic is about was an unwilling sexual partner to a deviant?

Keep on going, digging yourself further into a hole. No pun intended, but I have to say, thank GOD, I don't have you for a neighbor!



posted on Oct, 1 2009 @ 09:46 PM
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Originally posted by TheColdDragon

Originally posted by A Fortiori
I don't quite no what to say to this besides: have you read the transcripts from the court case yet? Beyond the transcripts even...what you are arguing is close to obscene. This is pedophilia, however, you play it. Imagine Dick Cheney luring a girl to his swinging pad, plying her with drugs and then having sex with her. Even if you won't admit it here it paints a very different picture than this pathetic little director.


It is definitionally not Paedophilia. It is Ephebophilia; sexual attraction to young pubescent individuals. Ephebophilia is fairly common, especially amongst males.

Paedophilia, definitionally, is sexual attraction to pre-pubescent (Undeveloped) children.


And does puberty occur at the same age for every individual? Wait, don't bother to answer. Not sure if it is covered in Japanese Studies. I'll answer for you. In females it occurs between 7 and 14 years of age. Considering that what is considered "normal" ephebophilia as being attracted to women between the ages of 17 and 20 I do not see how this attraction to a thirteen year old qualifies.


Then go become a lesbian; a greater majority of males are sexually attracted to all females that display secondary sexual characteristics. Society dissuades such behaviors via laws invented to create a second class of children where none existed before. It breaks down into percentages, though;


Well, that Angelina Jolie is a beauty...


A greater majority of men are attracted to females between the ages of 14 to 18 than the portion of males attracted to 12 through 15... but even that is still incredibly common.


Please cite the study. I've seen 17 to 20 as "normal" and below 17 as a "condition".


Seventh Grade and Middle School did not exist prior to the twentieth century. Likewise, females were not historically educated in schools.


Holy Crap! Stop the presses! Are you sure????? I cannot believe this...



Wrong again, see the above, Paedophilia is defined as attraction to pre-pubescent (Undeveloped) children usually below the age of nine.


See above.




And this event did not happen in her home, he wasn't drawn to her bedroom, she didn't take him to a hotel. None of the facts of the case support this, and EVEN IF SHE DID she is a child.


She is the secondary class of children which did not exist prior to the 1930's. Teenagers are not children. Teenagers are Young Adults due to the simple fact that they are capable of procreation.


And blacks were second class citizens prior to the 1960's but I'm sure glad we got that straightened out.

And by the way, you cannot put a global stamp on how children have been historically treated or the age that one becomes an adult in society. The world is far more diverse than you are giving it credit for.


You have been brainwashed by the modern age and are in need of some brain bleach.


All I can say to that is:

Falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus!



The case does not have to be rehashed. It is done. The individual in question has never recanted her story, she only said she would like to not have to think about it. Many victims of rape feel the same way. Read some psychological studies on it.



I've read some psychological studies. There is also a book by a now less respected psychologist which pointed out that most of the psychological trauma of rape victims is induced by society.


I can see why they are now a less than respected psychologist.

I never felt ashamed. I never felt like it was my fault. I don't think my school uniform was too short. I don't think I came on to anyone. I think someone used violence against me, overpowered me, and hurt me. I think that someone is a criminal.


I think the fact that people feel a need to drag rape victims through a torrid affair of shame, obviousness and public scrutiny for the sake of "Justice" for the victim lends credence to the theory.
Well, when your person is penetrated against your will then I will be very keen to listen to your knowledgeable perspective on the subject, until then I will keep my own counsel.



posted on Oct, 1 2009 @ 09:50 PM
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Nevermind. I'm not getting involved with you feminists, and perverts.

[edit on 1-10-2009 by Maj35t1cI2]



posted on Oct, 1 2009 @ 09:56 PM
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reply to post by Maj35t1cI2
 


So did the Holocaust and yet the Israelis still have a policy of dragging former Nazis kicking and screaming to justice even as old, penitent men. Why? Because they committed crimes.

Forcible anal rape on a thirteen year old is a crime. Sorry, but it is. In fact, a heinous crime.



posted on Oct, 1 2009 @ 09:56 PM
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reply to post by A Fortiori
 


Oh, it is certainly called a "CONDITION" nowadays, especially in the DSM IV, largely because society wants to label it as abnormal when that certainly is not the case.

Most men are sexually attracted to secondary sexual characteristics. Do you think that somehow there's some regulatory internal mechanism that causes thirteen year olds to be attracted to females at thirteen years of age but then somehow changes as they get progressively older?

Characteristics that are sexually arousing persist, regardless of age. If a thirteen year old boy is getting sexually aroused by thirteen year old girls, that sexual arousal doesn't go away when they magically hit 18... or 19... or 20.

It is simply that they as adults cognizantly realise that society has penalties and punishments for indulging in a sexual liaison with an underage girl. The attraction remains, but the self preservation overrides it in most cases....

it doesn't mean men aren't thinking it though.



posted on Oct, 1 2009 @ 09:59 PM
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Originally posted by TheColdDragon
reply to post by A Fortiori
 


Oh, it is certainly called a "CONDITION" nowadays, especially in the DSM IV, largely because society wants to label it as abnormal when that certainly is not the case.

Most men are sexually attracted to secondary sexual characteristics. Do you think that somehow there's some regulatory internal mechanism that causes thirteen year olds to be attracted to females at thirteen years of age but then somehow changes as they get progressively older?

Characteristics that are sexually arousing persist, regardless of age. If a thirteen year old boy is getting sexually aroused by thirteen year old girls, that sexual arousal doesn't go away when they magically hit 18... or 19... or 20.

It is simply that they as adults cognizantly realise that society has penalties and punishments for indulging in a sexual liaison with an underage girl. The attraction remains, but the self preservation overrides it in most cases....

it doesn't mean men aren't thinking it though.


LOLOLOLOLOL. No you are wrong. Normal people, myself included, find nothing attractive of a girl under the age of 18. I look at anyone under that age as a child. Not because I'm "supposed" to, but because I just do. You are a troll, please leave.



posted on Oct, 1 2009 @ 10:02 PM
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I'm going to bed but before I go let me just ask...

If this was just another case of "The Casting Couch" then regardless of the girls age this was just another normal interview right?

Come on no one is that naive we all know it doesn't just happen... its almost required... when it does happens everyone acts so surprised... so look if you don't want your little girls raped why in the world are you sending them to these people?

Oh wait maybe it's because she didnt get a part in the next big film?



posted on Oct, 1 2009 @ 10:11 PM
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Originally posted by TheColdDragon
reply to post by A Fortiori
 


Most men are sexually attracted to secondary sexual characteristics. Do you think that somehow there's some regulatory internal mechanism that causes thirteen year olds to be attracted to females at thirteen years of age but then somehow changes as they get progressively older?


No, I think that humans have both instinct and intellect and that as humans get older and become more rounded then sexuality and attraction becomes more nuanced and rich. Features beyond looks govern attraction, and that is not societal pressure, that is the maturity of the human brain and the desire for mental stimulation.

Thirteen year olds, even those Harry Potter kids, hold no attraction for me whatsoever. Comics, no matter how grotesque are attractive, men that are my intellectual equal or superior are attractive--in fact, there are people whose posts turn me on.


Characteristics that are sexually arousing persist, regardless of age. If a thirteen year old boy is getting sexually aroused by thirteen year old girls, that sexual arousal doesn't go away when they magically hit 18... or 19... or 20.


Middle school boys, at least at my school, were always trying to gain the attention of high school cheerleaders, or even their teachers--not so much the girls their own age. Being a middle school girl without having filled out my bra what I noticed is that men are attracted to breasts, but maybe my little enclave of the world was different.

In Japan this is different, yes?

*scribbles in notebook to never move to Japan*


It is simply that they as adults cognizantly realise that society has penalties and punishments for indulging in a sexual liaison with an underage girl.


Men and women must be vastly different. Thirteen year olds hold zero attraction. High school boys hold zero attraction. Men in glasses, the guy who plays Superman on Smallville...attraction.


The attraction remains, but the self preservation overrides it in most cases....

it doesn't mean men aren't thinking it though.


This is all very good to know. Well, I will be happy to share with you that I am an Old Maid by Japanese standards. Too bad for me. Guess I won't be catching myself a child loving husband then...

I'm interested in what the other men on the board think. Is this true?

Are you attracted to those females in the thirteen to fourteen year range?



posted on Oct, 1 2009 @ 10:18 PM
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Here we go , had to happen .......

" His mother was murdered by the Nazis and his father died in a concentration camp during the War. "

And I have heard that used to justify just about every possible crime against another human being. Now rape is on the list.



posted on Oct, 1 2009 @ 10:19 PM
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Once again, defense of proclivities, hair-splitting about the divisions between paraphilias and the naming of same, as well as trolling people with simple common human decency. The FBI will be very interested indeed- especially about what other sites "the defenders" like visiting. Nothing is secret on the internet, you know. Keep it up & some of you are going to find out first hand, perhaps, that the law is the law.

The information I have reports that one in four girls & one in five boys are sexually molested- most usually by a relative or a friend of their family- long before they turn eighteen. One in three women are raped at least once in their life. In the USA. It is a sign of a very sick culture.

Moreover, the sort of men I know detest the whole "Lolita" & NAMBLA (National American Man-Boy Love Association) thing. They especially hate it when all men get tarred with the same brush, & loathe the sort of men they have to clean up after when they have relationships with people who have been abused sexually in their lives.

Why can't children be children? Is it that awful to let them grow up normally? The facts of young & adolescent physiology are these: THEY ARE TOO YOUNG, both physically & MENTALLY. Their psyches aren't quite "cooked" yet, for want of a better term. Their brains need to catch up with their hormones. When preying adults take advantage of such vulnerabilities & create terrific problems in young people this way, it is disgusting. Such adults are sociopathic- without a conscience; they feel NOTHING for the young people they abuse. What's so scary about dating other adults like themselves? Could it be that adults are savvy enough to not want to put up with sociopaths? I wonder.

By the way, when children get married off very young, even though their parents arrange it or condone it, it is usually because they are starving & want the child to be someone else's problem. Or because times are very hard; once again for the same reasons. And then there are, sometimes, folk who are so woefully ignorant even though these are now modern times.

As for Hollywood, vote with your wallet- AND COMPLAIN. Do it online, write to the movie studios & stores to tell them why you won't buy their entertainment or goods, & refuse to wait in line to see movies made or acted in by such people. Vote with your wallet & your conscience. I've done it for years.

The average age of prostitutes in this country is 13-15 years- often they are even younger than that. Why? They were sexually abused at home & ran away to survive. All most social services will do for them is send them right back home to their abusers, because they are underage. You can see them in every major city in this country, walking the street. They are hooking for very little money- in Cincinnati, often for only 3 to 5 dollars. Their average customer? Middle aged white businessmen driving a Lexus or other luxury car, married with 2 or 3 children of their own. The cops here bust them all the time- call the Fraternal Order of Police in Cincinnati & ask! Sociopaths & degenerates all, these "Johns"- as long as they're not "doing" their own kids, they think its OK.

Sexual abuse of underage minors is no laughing matter. They end up abusing drugs & usually live short lives- when drugs don't block out the pain of abuse any longer, they all too often commit suicide.

Once again- just because something is common- doesn't mean it's normal- or right.



posted on Oct, 1 2009 @ 10:21 PM
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Unbelievable. Boycott Whoopi and Polanski. This is further proof that the Hollywood elite are sooo out of touch.



posted on Oct, 1 2009 @ 10:31 PM
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What a dispicable crime. It doesn’t matter that time has passed, or that he had a tragic life. Rape is rape. A person who resorts to the use of drugs to tranquilise their CHILD victims, and render them defenseless is the worst form of predator. And then to run away. What a coward. Why has it taken so long for him to be arrested? Because he is wealthy and protected by his status and his location?

He is a rapist, a pedophile, a criminal, and a sleazy lowlife. I think he is just disgusting.

The only way that a person is worthy of redemption and forgiveness is when they demonstrate remorse. And by staying out of reach of authorities symbolises his sense of justification for committing this crime. If he was sorry, he would have gone back, done the time and faced the consequences of such an act of selfishness, and disrespect. He is a pissant.

WHEN A WOMAN OR CHILD SAYS NO, IT MEANS NO. End of story. When are people going to stop supporting perpetrators of crimes against women and children?!! Grrrrrrrl power roll on.

(And Nastassja Kinski was fifteen when she started a relationship with Polanski - so he has a history of child abuse)



posted on Oct, 1 2009 @ 10:37 PM
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Originally posted by Deianera
One in three women are raped at least once in their life. In the USA. It is a sign of a very sick culture.


Yes, yes it is.



Why can't children be children? Is it that awful to let them grow up normally?


Thank you. Adult life happens all too quickly anyway.


The facts of young & adolescent physiology are these: THEY ARE TOO YOUNG, both physically & MENTALLY. Their psyches aren't quite "cooked" yet, for want of a better term.


*claps loudly*


Their brains need to catch up with their hormones. When preying adults take advantage of such vulnerabilities & create terrific problems in young people this way, it is disgusting. Such adults are sociopathic- without a conscience; they feel NOTHING for the young people they abuse. What's so scary about dating other adults like themselves? Could it be that adults are savvy enough to not want to put up with sociopaths? I wonder.


Yes, I quite agree. They do not realize that they have changed your whole life, nor do they care. I will never trust people the same way. Pump the brakes. I will never trust men the same way, and I can thank one person for that.



posted on Oct, 1 2009 @ 10:40 PM
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Originally posted by thedeadtruth
Here we go , had to happen .......

" His mother was murdered by the Nazis and his father died in a concentration camp during the War. "

And I have heard that used to justify just about every possible crime against another human being. Now rape is on the list.


I've heard that one, too. Because, you know, everyone who had family who were killed in the Holocaust and later on had family members who were murdered always end up to be people who drug and rape minors. (If that's not an idiotic justification I don't know what is.)



posted on Oct, 1 2009 @ 10:41 PM
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Originally posted by A Fortiori
No, I think that humans have both instinct and intellect and that as humans get older and become more rounded then sexuality and attraction becomes more nuanced and rich. Features beyond looks govern attraction, and that is not societal pressure, that is the maturity of the human brain and the desire for mental stimulation.


Okay, in this part you are MOSTLY right. As you get older, there are certainly qualities that you intellectually find attractive and those are the things you seek; rarely are these qualities found in someone underage. It happens, but it is not common... largely because of a lack of worldly experience with someone underage. They lack appropriate mentally stimulating qualities for an adult.

However, that does not mean anything whereas it relates to raw physical, instinctual attraction to sexually developed individuals. It means that as an adult individual, you value something more than just physical attraction to a person.



Thirteen year olds, even those Harry Potter kids, hold no attraction for me whatsoever. Comics, no matter how grotesque are attractive, men that are my intellectual equal or superior are attractive--in fact, there are people whose posts turn me on.


I imagine that a majority of women feel this way, because female desire is completely and utterly different from Male Desire.

And again, there are biological reasons.




Middle school boys, at least at my school, were always trying to gain the attention of high school cheerleaders, or even their teachers--not so much the girls their own age. Being a middle school girl without having filled out my bra what I noticed is that men are attracted to breasts, but maybe my little enclave of the world was different.


They tried to gain the attention of Cheerleaders because they wanted sex, Cheerleaders were attractive, and usually there's rumors about a couple of them being easy. As a female, I don't imagine you can or are entirely willing to fathom the depravities that occur daily in the male mind.



In Japan this is different, yes?

*scribbles in notebook to never move to Japan*


Nope, Japan is no different than anywhere else in the world when it comes to physical attraction. They are just completely willing to recognize it and make an industry around it.



Men and women must be vastly different. Thirteen year olds hold zero attraction. High school boys hold zero attraction. Men in glasses, the guy who plays Superman on Smallville...attraction.


Men and women ARE vastly different. TREMENDOUSLY different when it comes to sexual impulse, from what I have gathered through observation and discussion. Men are a whole lot less picky than women are about who they stick it in... to be vulgar.



This is all very good to know. Well, I will be happy to share with you that I am an Old Maid by Japanese standards. Too bad for me. Guess I won't be catching myself a child loving husband then...


*shrugs* Different cultures, different accepted standards. The Japanese are currently having a bit of trouble with having children, largely because of how work obsessed their society has become. As a result, I expect their already lax sexual standards to become more lax as a result of a societal crisis and also due to their xenophobic nature.



I'm interested in what the other men on the board think. Is this true?

Are you attracted to those females in the thirteen to fourteen year range?


It's a bit of an unfair question, most people don't want to be put outside of the group and value what other people think of them. I just don't, so I'm honest about things.

It'd be more honest to test them with a series of pictures without revealing the age of the people pictured (Fully clothed pictures).



posted on Oct, 1 2009 @ 10:49 PM
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reply to post by TheColdDragon
 


We have now hit the off topic portion of the show, so I intend to direct us back in an appropriate direction. Continue to enjoy the look of fourteen year olds and I will continue to dream about Tom Welling in a blue Tshirt, and let us both retire to the subject at hand...

And that is rape-rape and no meaning no, and a conviction being a conviction.



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