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EU report: Georgian attack started war with Russia

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posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 12:03 PM
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EU report: Georgian attack started war with Russia


news.yahoo.com

The report on the five-day war in August 2008 lay blame on both sides, but cited Georgia as starting the conflict with its night shelling in South Ossetia — an act it said was not justifiable under international law.

The EU report went on to blame Russia for conducting a military campaign deep inside Georgia. "All this cannot be regarded as even remotely commensurate with the threat to Russian peacekeepers in South Ossetia," the report said.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 12:03 PM
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Hi ATS,

The skewed viewpoints laid out by the mainstream media mean that the World We live in is one filled with misrepresentations, and lies. It only takes looking at an overall expansive picture to comprehend the real motives; which the psychological warfare MSM doesn't want You to see. Why? Because they are in the employ of the very elite making the moves; it is necessary for them to try always to win the hearts, and minds of the serfs.

That being said, I hope this isn't already posted, but the search showed no results.

Simply all reasoning aside, and to end the silly arguments; Georgia officially started the 08-08-08 war. For many of us this is no surprise other than there ever was a debate.

Russia is criticized for really taking the fight to Georgia, and into the country of Georgia. It is somewhat of skewed, or rhetorical point as Georgia took the fight deep within South Ossetia, or what has the US ever done??? Absolute show of force, and dominance is what.

So here it is Georgia led by US/Israeli commando's did start the war. No more debate


Peace,

Sancho

news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 12:06 PM
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Finally a credible source for what we have all known for almost a year =)



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 12:52 PM
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reply to post by sanchoearlyjones
 

I think Russia has been in "war" with Georgia for a pretty long time. Whatever media puts out there is pretty much old news to Russians don't live there anymore. Most of us witnessed how it was at the Russian/Georgian boarder and how Russians Treat you once you cross it. How cruel and mean to Georgians they are: harassing them and throwing them in jail for "false" documents. I've had to live through that and witness that when I Lived in Sochi. So, the whole war between Russia and Georgia is not by any means news to us. I'm sure it will continue until Georgia is finally left alone as it's own country without Russia interfering.



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 02:31 PM
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Hi,
I think you may find my first ever thread interesting.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Putin's invasion revealed an open secret. While the United States is tied down in the Middle East, American guarantees have no value. This lesson is not for American consumption. It is something that, from the Russian point of view, the Ukrainians, the Balts, and the Central Asians need to digest. Indeed, it is a lesson Putin wants to transmit to Poland and the Czech Republic as well.



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 02:38 PM
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So here it is Georgia led by US/Israeli commando's did start the war. No more debate

Take a truth and add some lies technique? There is a debate. Georgia started war, it is in the report and it was known before it. Nobody in his right mind ,or nobody without agenda, claims that there were "US/Israeli commandos" leading Georgia forces.
Maybe Iranian ones....



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by drinkdeep
I think Russia has been in "war" with Georgia for a pretty long time.


Or was it Georgia that was at "war" with Russia for a long time? As soon as Saakashvili came to power (through a Western-backed coup), he started an escalation that led to the conflict. He stated his nationalist intentions as soon as he came to power, and continuously threated South Ossetia and Abkhazia while demanding that Russian peacekeepers move out.

Before Saakashvili came to power, Russia had stable and improving relations with Shevarnadze. Saakashvilli with his US backers is pretty much the sole reason why the August War took place, and why Georgia began to antagonize Russia.



Originally posted by drinkdeep
Whatever media puts out there is pretty much old news to Russians don't live there anymore.


What do you mean they don't live there anymore?



Originally posted by drinkdeep
Most of us witnessed how it was at the Russian/Georgian boarder and how Russians Treat you once you cross it.


How do you expect to be treated at the border of two hostile countries? The Georgian border patrol is no friendlier to people crossing into Georgia from Russia. What is that supposed to prove?



Originally posted by drinkdeep
How cruel and mean to Georgians they are: harassing them and throwing them in jail for "false" documents.


There are hundreds of thousands of Georgians living in Russia. A very small number of them detained for being illegal immigrants does not equate to harassment.



Originally posted by drinkdeep
I've had to live through that and witness that when I Lived in Sochi.


Please share with us what exactly you witnessed in Sochi and when, and how that is relevent to the war started by Georgia last August.



Originally posted by drinkdeep
So, the whole war between Russia and Georgia is not by any means news to us. I'm sure it will continue until Georgia is finally left alone as it's own country without Russia interfering.


What was Russia interfering with in Georgia? Attempted ethnical cleansing when Georgian artillery, armor, and troops attacked a civilian city?



The fact is, that many people will continue to see Georgia as the victim in all this, simply because it a smaller country that Russia, regardless of the known facts and circumstances of the conflict. The war was organized and planned by Saakashvili, who has been heavily supported and armed by the US under the Bush administration.



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 07:16 PM
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They said Georgia fired the first shot but Russia used disproportionate force.

Isnt this what all the folks on here are crying about when Hamas or Hezbo launches a few rockets at Israle and then in turn they go level the place? Funny how those same folks chastise Israel for doing it but applaud Russia for doing so.



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 07:36 PM
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Originally posted by princeofpeace
They said Georgia fired the first shot but Russia used disproportionate force.


I would like to see the figures behind this "disproportionate force" statements. I know it is what the report states, but quantifying it would help. Russian troop presence in South Ossetia/Georgia was no higher than that of Georgian troops taking part in the fighting. Both sides used artillery, and there was very limited air/sea engagement - with a slightly higher number of jets/ships used by Russia. Also if you look at casualties and destruction of property on the two sides (including South Ossetians counted on Russia's side) - it is nearly even.


So you have Georgia attacking Russian peacekeepers and Ossetian civilians with thousands of troops, artillery, armor, and jets. And then you have Russia's response, with thousands of troops, artillery, armor, and jets - in about the same quantity. What in this scenario is disproportional?



Originally posted by princeofpeace
Isnt this what all the folks on here are crying about when Hamas or Hezbo launches a few rockets at Israle and then in turn they go level the place? Funny how those same folks chastise Israel for doing it but applaud Russia for doing so.


You can't really compare the August War in South Ossetia with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Georgia is a sovereign nation with an organized military force. It's idiot leader launched a military campaign on behalf of his nation, knowing well the consequences of his actions for his country. And Georgia did not launch a "few rockets" - it launched a barrage of directed artillery fire that caused hundreds of casualties, followed up with advancing armor columns.


And expressing understanding behind Russia's intervention and thus siding with it, is not the same as applauding its actions. Russia did what was necessary, even if doing so resulted in some deaths of Georgian civilians. But it would be hard to say that Russia went way overboard with attacking civilian Georgian areas and leveling large part of Georgian infrastructure. Its engagements were mostly limited to Georgian military targets, and Georgian civilian death toll is lower than South Ossetian death toll.


[edit on 30-9-2009 by maloy]



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 08:25 PM
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I read a lot of your posts and i hate to say it, but its difficult to converse with anyone who is SO pro Russian and believes that Russia NEVER does anything wrong.

Im going to have to wait on the next response....yours are have to be taken with too much salt!! Nothing wrong with national pride though so i dont blame you.




Originally posted by maloy

Originally posted by princeofpeace
They said Georgia fired the first shot but Russia used disproportionate force.


I would like to see the figures behind this "disproportionate force" statements. I know it is what the report states, but quantifying it would help. Russian troop presence in South Ossetia/Georgia was no higher than that of Georgian troops taking part in the fighting. Both sides used artillery, and there was very limited air/sea engagement - with a slightly higher number of jets/ships used by Russia. Also if you look at casualties and destruction of property on the two sides (including South Ossetians counted on Russia's side) - it is nearly even.


So you have Georgia attacking Russian peacekeepers and Ossetian civilians with thousands of troops, artillery, armor, and jets. And then you have Russia's response, with thousands of troops, artillery, armor, and jets - in about the same quantity. What in this scenario is disproportional?



Originally posted by princeofpeace
Isnt this what all the folks on here are crying about when Hamas or Hezbo launches a few rockets at Israle and then in turn they go level the place? Funny how those same folks chastise Israel for doing it but applaud Russia for doing so.


You can't really compare the August War in South Ossetia with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Georgia is a sovereign nation with an organized military force. It's idiot leader launched a military campaign on behalf of his nation, knowing well the consequences of his actions for his country. And Georgia did not launch a "few rockets" - it launched a barrage of directed artillery fire that caused hundreds of casualties, followed up with advancing armor columns.


And expressing understanding behind Russia's intervention and thus siding with it, is not the same as applauding its actions. Russia did what was necessary, even if doing so resulted in some deaths of Georgian civilians. But it would be hard to say that Russia went way overboard with attacking civilian Georgian areas and leveling large part of Georgian infrastructure. Its engagements were mostly limited to Georgian military targets, and Georgian civilian death toll is lower than South Ossetian death toll.


[edit on 30-9-2009 by maloy]



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 08:44 PM
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Originally posted by princeofpeace
I read a lot of your posts and i hate to say it, but its difficult to converse with anyone who is SO pro Russian and believes that Russia NEVER does anything wrong.


Ah - the old 'when you can't make valid arguement, make an irrelevent personal degrading referrence to try and dismiss the other sides' arguements' routine.

I don't see you conversing right now - I see you trying to degrade me and in doing so trying to avoid the relevent points I made. This topic is not about me and my beliefs, it is about the known events that took place during the South Ossetia was.


Believe me, i know Russia does a lot of wrong. I can give a huge list if you care. When it comes to August war though, I believe Russia's actions are justified, as do the majority of people on ATS. In many cases I try to explain the reasoning behind Russia's actions, and it so happens that most posts on ATS concerning Russia are of negative nature.

In fact I agree that Russia has acted improperly in some instances during the August War - and nothing is black and white. But Russia's faults pale in comparison with Georgia's (in particular Saakashvili's) based on known facts.



Originally posted by princeofpeace
Im going to have to wait on the next response....yours are have to be taken with too much salt!! Nothing wrong with national pride though so i dont blame you.


I am no more pro-Russia than many individuals here are anti-Russia. It just so happens that when it comes to Russian topics, I tend to know somewhat more background than many who take every opportunity to criticize the 'evil commies and their overlord KGB Darth Putin'. Take a look at your own responses and the skewed views in all Russia-related threads, and pass the salt around.

And you can wait for whatever response you want - no need to declare it. You can also blame me if you wish - I really could not care less and taking offense is not my habit.



Originally posted by princeofpeace
They said Georgia fired the first shot but Russia used disproportionate force.


I do not agree with everything in that report, and I do not think they substantiated the "disproportionality" claim.

[edit on 30-9-2009 by maloy]



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 09:31 PM
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Im sorry i didnt mean to come across as degrading. I actually respect you a lot as a poster and you always provide good info. I was just saying since you were so pro-Russian its pointless to debate-thats all. And again, national pride is a good thing and Russia is a great country.



Originally posted by maloy

Originally posted by princeofpeace
I read a lot of your posts and i hate to say it, but its difficult to converse with anyone who is SO pro Russian and believes that Russia NEVER does anything wrong.


Ah - the old 'when you can't make valid arguement, make an irrelevent personal degrading referrence to try and dismiss the other sides' arguements' routine.

I don't see you conversing right now - I see you trying to degrade me and in doing so trying to avoid the relevent points I made. This topic is not about me and my beliefs, it is about the known events that took place during the South Ossetia was.


Believe me, i know Russia does a lot of wrong. I can give a huge list if you care. When it comes to August war though, I believe Russia's actions are justified, as do the majority of people on ATS. In many cases I try to explain the reasoning behind Russia's actions, and it so happens that most posts on ATS concerning Russia are of negative nature.

In fact I agree that Russia has acted improperly in some instances during the August War - and nothing is black and white. But Russia's faults pale in comparison with Georgia's (in particular Saakashvili's) based on known facts.



Originally posted by princeofpeace
Im going to have to wait on the next response....yours are have to be taken with too much salt!! Nothing wrong with national pride though so i dont blame you.


I am no more pro-Russia than many individuals here are anti-Russia. It just so happens that when it comes to Russian topics, I tend to know somewhat more background than many who take every opportunity to criticize the 'evil commies and their overlord KGB Darth Putin'. Take a look at your own responses and the skewed views in all Russia-related threads, and pass the salt around.

And you can wait for whatever response you want - no need to declare it. You can also blame me if you wish - I really could not care less and taking offense is not my habit.



Originally posted by princeofpeace
They said Georgia fired the first shot but Russia used disproportionate force.


I do not agree with everything in that report, and I do not think they substantiated the "disproportionality" claim.

[edit on 30-9-2009 by maloy]



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