Non-Christian are welcome but his thread is intended for Christian viewers.

haha for christian viewers only. take your religious crap elsewhere, here on ATS we use our brains to think for ourselves, we are not told how to think (like a religion).


see this crap? why did you have to but in with your rude dumb comment?

They just can't resist lashing out because they fear the reality of God.

you are the definition of what's wrong with your side.


What do you think about? Playboy magazine? how many beers you can drink to drown your problems out in a night? what game comes on every weekend?

Your thoughts are controlled just like you presume ours is, but you don't know it.



This is why coming to BTS ATS makes my ass sick..

bye OP/ good try, but rude little s***s come in and destroy it.

peace/

[edit on 1-10-2009 by JesusisTruth]

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
haha for christian viewers only. take your religious crap elsewhere, here on ATS we use our brains to think for ourselves, we are not told how to think (like a religion).


see this crap? why did you have to but in with your rude dumb comment?

They just can't resist lashing out because they fear the reality of God.

you are the definition of what's wrong with your side.


What do you think about? Playboy magazine? how many beers you can drink to drown your problems out in a night? what game comes on every weekend?

Your thoughts are controlled just like you presume ours is, but you don't know it.



This is why coming to BTS ATS makes my ass sick..

bye OP/ good try, but rude little s***s come in and destroy it.

peace/

[edit on 1-10-2009 by JesusisTruth]

I like you. I like your style. Athiests have attempted, and sadly in many cases succeeded, in making Christians afraid of their own shadow here at ATS. We are to be bold with the truth of the Work of The Cross, not mealy-mouthed. Like the guy speaking in the video says, this is a FIGHT FOR OUR LIVES.

Hope to see ya around pal.

Originally posted by Bombeni
Oh, and uh, thanks but no thanks on your invitation to visit you in the afterlife, unless of course you open your heart, and we meet as familiar spirits in the Kingdom of Heaven.

Yeah, see my afterlife is for everyone regardless of faith. I'm sorry you don't approve of my afterlife. Geez, can't even take my invitation?! Too good for it I suppose.

Originally posted by JesusisTruth


you are the definition of what's wrong with your side.


What do you think about? Playboy magazine? how many beers you can drink to drown your problems out in a night? what game comes on every weekend?

Your thoughts are controlled just like you presume ours is, but you don't know it.


bye OP/ good try, but rude little s***s come in and destroy it.

peace/

[edit on 1-10-2009 by JesusisTruth]

Wow, I had absolutely no beef with you but that was incredibly rude.

You know nothing about me. How dare you judge me! Beer and porn? I'm female and I don't even drink.

What is your problem?

I HAVE NOT JUDGED YOU PERSONALLY. WHAT GIVES YOU THE RIGHT TO JUDGE ME?

HOW DARE YOU.

[edit on 1/10/09 by Morbo the Annihilator]

Originally posted by Bombeni
We are to be bold with the truth of the Work of The Cross, not mealy-mouthed. Like the guy speaking in the video says, this is a FIGHT FOR OUR LIVES.

Sorry but you're not some amazing crusaders who are fighting the tyranny of oppression or something?

A fight for your lives?

Get a grip...

You're arguing and putting down atheists and any other faith you so desire, on an internet forum... you're not on the frontline in a war, you're not homeless or starving or anything...

Please don't exaggerate your "struggle"


Your power trip may be fun for you... but I'm pretty sure pride comes before a fall.

reply to post by JesusisTruth


You know what is ironic about this? Bombeni and I have been discussing this for PAGES AND PAGES and I respect enough to not add him/her to my foe list.

This personal attack on me? Totally uncalled for. You have just earned yourself a foe.

Congratulations for being completely rude.

Morb.. that reply wasn't to you, it was to tempestilt whatever it's name is.

They fear god being true so in defense mechanism style they lash out to push him further away from their minds.

I was saying that the person is controlled by things in their life and don't know it. All of us are controlled by something. That was the point.

Please, I'm not trying to judge anyone.



" I like your style "

I know this thread came from that athiest infested hate forum called ATS. I will not go there.

good to meet you brother.

Congratulations for being completely rude.
"

and congradulations for being overly suspicious...

Owned!

nah I'm teasing. resume the convo Mordo... God bless you. it wasn't directed to you!

reply to post by JesusisTruth


Sorry for jumping so quickly. Your response just happened to fall RIGHT AFTER mine and it didn't seem to be directed at at someone specifically. I didn't think there was another non-christian that had posted in the tread in DAYS (except for blup and Kyo and I knew it wasn't directed at them.)

Thanks for the push, but I think I'm done here. I'll respectfully withdraw from this thread. I'm sure Bombeni won't mind a bit.

But thank you all for your responses!

(And JIT - You've been de-foed) : )

no problem

I am saying, why do people come in and say stuff like that? The op was sincere and loving and even welcoming athiest, and yet Lo and behold, that's the response you get.

they gottabe 17 and under. No other explaination.

peace.

Bombeni, my friend, Yeshua said there'd be days like this.:bnghd:

I've taken the stance of offering people knowledge of the walk I have with my savior and if they don't want it, oh well.

You can lead an atheist to the water of life but you can't make 'em drink.

Christ said we would be persecuted, ridiculed, so on and so on. It's no surprise. In fact, we were told "don't be surprised...." We know these things are coming and that there will eventually be Christian beheadings. It only makes sense that hatred toward Christians/Christianity start out with disrespect. (Not talking about this thread but about the YT response).

Apparently, the atheists will not be our worst enemies or antagonists but those calling themselves Christians. "They will kill you thinking they do God service". Atheists have no interest in doing God service; Christians do (or claim they do).

I'm not bothered by the atheists responses here on ATS or IRL. It's to be expected. If we know "all these things must come to pass" why do we fight against it?

Yes, it would be nice to have a non mudslinging conversation about the most important person in our lives without being told we're idiots for having that person in our lives but since we know that's not going to happen, why get upset over it?

Yahweh is still in control, He still loves us. I'd like for others to know the same joy and peace I've found in my savior but if all I can do is knock at the door of their hearts (I don't knock on anybody's front door to their house) then I've done what I can.

Saving souls is kind of a sideline of being a Christian. The main thing is the relationship with Christ. Anything else that comes out of that is just gravy.

What arrogance.

Thankfully - my intelligence took hold - and I evolved.

reply to post by Annee


Were you addressing anyone in particular or did you just pop in here to vomit out an example of your evolved intelligence?

reply to post by open_eyeballs

Sorry about the late reply; I lost the thread.

My reply to you was in response to your argument that the Bible has survived for thousands of years due to its absolute "truth." My argument is that: Cant the same be said for every ancient religion? Some much holder than Christianity...

In the context of this debate, yes it can.

I will state this: there is a truth to the universe. That truth exists, regardless of what any of us (including myself) believes. As humans, surrounded by our own physicality, I doubt any of us will ever know the whole truth. It is just too hard to see past our physical world and into the spiritual.

Perhaps once we die physically, we will know the truth. In the interim, I am satisfied by my own personal experiences that the Bible is indeed the truth, as told to the Hebrew people.

Now, that is my belief. It is not binding on you nor on anyone else. We all have to decide what we will believe, and no one can be forced to believe any particular concept.

My point in stating how the Bible is unaffected by the myriad of attempts to disprove it was simply this: No other religion of the age of the Bible has endured so well. The Old Testament encompasses the three largest world religions: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. No other book can make that claim. Buddism (as I understand it anyway) is less of a deist religion and more of a spiritual journey, without a definite goal. Pagan and Wiccan religions are extremely old and growing in popularity, but there seems to be much room in those belief systems for interpretation; I have yet to meet two Wiccans who believe the same thing (other than a hatred for the Bible).

Now add in the many places where the Bible predicts that its followers will be persecuted, and you have an enigma that I can only explain by stating it is truth. Again, that is my belief.

It is interesting to me that many of those older religions you mention (I am actually thinking Zoroasterism(sp?) as I type) have much in common with the Biblical religions. Perhaps there is indeed truth in them as well.

But for now, I wanted to respond, but the brain is a bit fuzzy today after a 24 hour shift. I have done little today but eat, sleep, and type what I could. So forgive me if this last post of the night is a bit rambling.

Good night, my friend.

TheRedneck

reply to post by TheRedneck


As usual Redneck, your arguments are always well thought and well made. I absolutely agree...to a degree...

What I agree with is not that the Bible is absolute truth in the words and stories the authors have chosen to use, but more in that it possesses a universal truth in its message. Even the old testament has messages that are universal and can be applied to all generations and all peoples...even though at times there is much riff raff that has to be sorted through to find it...

And I believe the same goes for many of the texts the 'spiritual journey' "religions" are founded upon and use. In other words this is not uniquely Christian or abrahamic. I believe, if there was absolute truth in the literal words of the Bible you would see a much wider scale acceptance. There would be smaller amounts of varied interpretation and more people could (more) easily see the value of its words without a third party (preacher, minister, nun, "teacher," priest etc.). But, as the 'persecution' (a rather harsh word for todays times for Christians in America. At least comparative to past persecutions in other places) continues I find most of it is in the way of rejecting the people who use, manipulate, interpret and spread the message of their bias choice and not the messages of intention scribed by the authors.

Certainly, as I have pointed out and reiterated many times, many of those 'persecutors' are insecure in what they believe or dont give any amount of importance to its words and therefore lash out due to those insecurities...Thats todays times. Not much in regard to oppossing beliefs, just a simple non belief. Hopefully I am being clear...I am being hurried, so i dont have time to choose better words.

I think historical persecutions (such as the ones during Neros day...which may be more of a persecution against Jews) are normally due to Christianitys conflicting beliefs of the status quo, of the time. The persecutors were not just persecuting because they were not Christians and did not believe as Christians do. In the beginning of Christianity and its battles for acceptance, and the subequent denial of it was not simple apartheid. There were many other reasons the Romans, different arab groups and other Christian persecutors decided to persecute Christianity. And today, those persecutions have played into the hands of Christianitys strengths. But in my opinion is not necessarily evidence of Christianitys 'absolute truth'. And you know I respect your opinion for what it is. As you mentioned and as I know...our opinions are just that...opinions...

Going back to the 'persecutions' (for lack of a better word, in regards to Americas Christianity) of today, you will find it more of a rebellion against Christianity because of its widespread acceptance..where at one time Christianity was the rebellion... So in that rebellious attitude is where you find much of where the anti- Christian rhetoric comes from... The small minded belief that none of it is true and therefore all Christians are stupid and dumb. Which (in the arguers mind) gives room for personal insults, flagging down posts on youtube and other fledgling attempts at ridicule...

I must go...Great speaking to you again dude!

edit typos!

[edit on 2-10-2009 by open_eyeballs]

Originally posted by whitewave
reply to post by Annee

 

Were you addressing anyone in particular or did you just pop in here to vomit out an example of your evolved intelligence?

You volunteering?

As stated in 1st post - - I began my life as a Christian. Having been Christian gives me the right to comment.

Did you read this entire thread or just pop in to vomit on other poster's opinions?

reply to post by open_eyeballs

As usual Redneck, your arguments are always well thought and well made. I absolutely agree...to a degree...

Considering that when I typed that last reply, I was literally so tired I was having trouble seeing the keyboard clearly, that is a major compliment. Thank you!

I believe, if there was absolute truth in the literal words of the Bible you would see a much wider scale acceptance.

I would agree with you, except that I see so many myths propagated today over fact, in virtually every arena of existence. Propaganda replaces truth more often than not. So I can easily subscribe the lack of total belief among the human race to an inability to recognize truth.

And yes, I realize that argument could be twisted against me.

But, as the 'persecution' (a rather harsh word for todays times for Christians in America. At least comparative to past persecutions in other places) continues I find most of it is in the way of rejecting the people who use, manipulate, interpret and spread the message of their bias choice and not the messages of intention scribed by the authors.

I have to absolutely agree with this, on both points:

• Present persecution is nothing compared to past persecutions. No one in America is being fed to lions (although I did hear something about drug dealers in Mexico using that as a method of removing opponents from existence). I only hope it remains at low levels in the future, because there are many people today who can't handle the grocery store being out of their favorite brand of peanut butter, much less real persecution.
  
  We as a group are far less hardy than those in the early days of Christianity.
  
  
• If there is a flaw in Christianity, it is definitely in the personal abuses and misinterpretations of those who have gleaned power over the followers of the religion. As an example, a friend (who happens to be Wiccan, according to his own admissions) challenged me once to explain a verse in the Bible.
  
  Exodus 22:18
  Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
  
  That sounds like a witch or sorceress (today, a seer or psychic or medium) should be killed. Even modern translations indicate this 'obvious' meaning:

  
  1. American Standard Version "Thou shalt not suffer a sorceress to live."
  2. The Answer: Put to death any woman who does evil magic.
  3. Amplified Bible: You shall not allow a woman to live who practices sorcery.
  4. Good News Version: Put to death any woman who practices magic.
  5. James Moffatt Translation: You shall not allow any sorceress to live.
  6. Jerusalem Bible: You shall not allow a sorceress to live.
  7. King James Version: Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.
  8. Living Bible: A sorceress shall be put to death.
  9. Modern Language Bible: Allow no sorceress to live.
  10. New American Bible: You shall not let a sorceress live.
  11. New American Standard Bible: You shall not let a sorceress live.
  12. New Century Version: Put to death any woman who does evil magic.
  13. New International Version: Do not allow a sorceress to live.
  14. New Living Translation: A sorceress must not be allowed to live.
  15. New Revised Standard Version: You shall not permit a female sorcerer to live.
  16. New World Translation: You must not preserve a sorceress alive.
  17. The Promise: Contemporary English Version: Death is the punishment for witchcraft.
  18. Revised Standard Version: You shall not permit a sorceress to live.
  19. Revised English Bible: You must not allow a witch to live.

  Source: www.religioustolerance.org...
  
  Yet, when I went back and re-translated the words from the original Hebrew (using Strong's Exhaustive Concordance), I got something much different, along the lines of You shall not assist one who deals with indeterminate spirits to prosper... in other words, don't pay someone to talk with spirits you do not know. Don't call the Psychic Hotline.
  
  Spirits are like humans in one way at least: they do not all have your best interests at heart. So it makes perfect sense to not deal with unknown spirits; you don't know what you are really talking to! (And paying money for the privilege is just plain silly IMO.)
  
  This is one of the more extreme examples I have come across, but I have come across many many more minor ones. And of course, extremists with personal agendas can easily twist a minor misinterpretation into something that supports their personal feelings.

Going back to the 'persecutions' (for lack of a better word, in regards to Americas Christianity) of today, you will find it more of a rebellion against Christianity because of its widespread acceptance..where at one time Christianity was the rebellion... So in that rebellious attitude is where you find much of where the anti- Christian rhetoric comes from... The small minded belief that none of it is true and therefore all Christians are stupid and dumb. Which (in the arguers mind) gives room for personal insults, flagging down posts on youtube and other fledgling attempts at ridicule...

An awesome wrap-up, if I may say so!

My concern over this rebellion against the status-quo is that it can easily become an entrenched aspect of society. Many of the old rebellion ideas of the 1960s are today accepted truths of existence. Should an abject and unconditional hatred of anything Christian become the societal norm, we might indeed be looking at persecution to rival that of the Romans.

I pray that never happens. Unfortunately, it may already be written in something harder than stone... the Holy Bible.

TheRedneck

Having read Foxes Book of Martyr's years ago, I was saddened but expected that all those horrible things happened long ago and that the human race had become more tolerant. Sadly, that is not the case.

There's a book called Jesus Freak (volumes 1 and 2) that is a modern day book of martyrs. Granted, most of it is happening in other countries but it's happening a LOT.

With the unnecessary antagonism expressed on every single religious thread I've ever seen on this site, I'd say actual persecution will be coming to a neighborhood near you soon.

Honestly, is there a reason that Christians can not have one single thread to talk among themselves without being insulted, ridiculed, belittled, condemned and chastised?

Good catch on the translation, Redneck.

Originally posted by Annee

"You volunteering?"

For what?

"As stated in 1st post - - I began my life as a Christian. Having been Christian gives me the right to comment."

Being a member of this site gives you the right to comment, Christian or not.

"Did you read this entire thread or just pop in to vomit on other poster's opinions?"

I read the whole thing just didn't feel like vomiting until.....

See, I can be nasty and mean-spirited too but it's just not conducive to a pleasant conversation. As a former Christian I'm sure you're well aware of how some atheists feel. As current Christians, we're aware too but thanks for the reminder that the hatred and intellectual superiority still exists.

Oooo whitewave, good job.

alittle witty aren't we?


Yea i keep hearing of this "intelligence" of athiest, obviously it doesn't detract from the abundant pointless hate post.

good thing a false sense of itelligence covers those defficencies or else we'd be in trouble!



peace