Defunding ACORN is Unconstitutional!, page 1
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 6 times


reply posted on 29-9-2009 @ 08:37 PM by sirnex
reply to post by memarf1



If ACORN is not a governmental institution, then the government can decide to stop funding it for whatever reason it so chooses. I see no problem with the government exercising this right.


reply posted on 29-9-2009 @ 08:39 PM by memarf1
reply to post by sirnex



Right, but by Article 1 they cannot pass legislation to single them out specifically for a removal of funding. The bill is stupid, they just need to deny them funding through the normal channels.

Edit: 1st Amendment to Article 1.

[edit on 29-9-2009 by memarf1]



reply posted on 29-9-2009 @ 08:55 PM by quetzelcoatl
reply to post by memarf1



First Amendment:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


As you can see, this Amendment does not guarantee the rights of any person, corporation, nation or otherwise to receive taxpayer or federal monetary support. Refusing them access to these veins of income does not infringe on their rights to have freedom of speech, assembly, or redress of issues with the government. They are able to carry out their same operations, but with alternative source(s) of funding.


reply posted on 29-9-2009 @ 09:06 PM by tothetenthpower
reply to post by quetzelcoatl



There you have it folks.

NOT unconstitutional.

Besides, would you want ACORN getting your hard earned tax dollars?

~Keeper


reply posted on 29-9-2009 @ 09:30 PM by SoupBoneDogSnake
reply to post by memarf1



I wouldnt believe anything I heard on MSNBC, they are just a bunch of Obmama worshippers who will defend any liberal cause, no matter how heinous.


reply posted on 29-9-2009 @ 09:35 PM by Eurisko2012
reply to post by memarf1



Acorn members need to go to prison.
Corrupt. Tax evading libs.
Watch the tapes yourself.



reply posted on 29-9-2009 @ 09:37 PM by finemanm
Rachel MadCow needs to take a class on constitutional law. As I have while I was in law school in the course of attaining my Juris Doctor degree, let me explain the concept of a bill of attainder.

Here is a brief explanation of what a bill of attainder is as defined by the United States Supreme Court:

A “bill of attainder” is a legislative act which inflicts punishment without judicial trial and includes any legislative act which takes away the life, liberty or property of a particular named or easily ascertainable person or group of persons because legislature thinks them guilty of conduct which deserves punishment. Cummings v. Missouri, U.S.Mo.1866, 71 U.S. 277, 18 L.Ed. 356, 4 Wall. 277. See, also, Bauer v. Acheson, D.C.D.C.1952, 106 F.Supp. 445.


The Source is West Law that you cannot access without a subscription.

In plain language, a bill of attainder is a legislative action which seeks to affirmatively punish a particular individual or group in a way that deprives that individual or group of a trial.

As stated by the Supreme Court in U.S. v. Brown, 381 U.S. 437, 85 S.Ct. 1707 (1965)

the Bill of Attainder Clause was intended not as a narrow, technical (and therefore soon to be outmoded) prohibition, but rather as an implementation of the separation of powers, a general safeguard against legislative exercise of the judicial function, or more simply-trial by legislature.



If the bill made it a crime to do business with ACORN, or if it required ACORN to surrender its offices to the federal government, or if it sought to make membership in ACORN illegal, then it would be unconstitutional. However, by merely making this organization ineligible for federal grant money, congress isn’t punishing ACORN because ACORN can keep doing what it does, it will just need to get private donations instead of our tax dollars.

Here, ACORN is not being punished, nor is anything that BELONGS to them being taken away. The Federal government has in essence decided to fire them. There is no constitutional guarantee to employment by the federal government. By MadCow's reasoning, anytime the Congress decided to stop funding a grant or an organization, it would be unconstitutional.

Another problem with MadCow's reasoning is that ACORN is not a government contractor. As they say on their own website, they are:

ACORN is a non-profit, non-partisan social justice organization with national headquarters in New York, New Orleans and Washington, D.C.
www.acorn.org...

They either apply for grants directly, or work with other entities that have gotten grant money to do a particular task in the furtherance of their stated goal. Its like applying for a grant to start a non-for-profit to teach inner-city kids better math skills.

KBR, Blackwater, Northrop, etc... are for profit corporations that the government hires to do a job to assist a branch of the government do its actual work. For example, there are companies that clean the port-o-potties at a temporary military facility, companies that provide food services at federal court houses, etc... Congress has no say in the contracting of these companies. Congress passes a budget for the president to spend on a particular task, and the executive branch uses the money in the budget to pay sub-contractors.

Grant recipients on the other hand are getting money directly from congressional grants, thus, congress has a say in who can get a grant.

I wish Rachel MadCow would just stay on Air America where no one listens to her in stead of MSNBC were no one watches her.

[edit on 29-9-2009 by finemanm]


reply posted on 29-9-2009 @ 09:46 PM by vor78
reply to post by desert




I think they'd have a tough time making the 'bill of attainder' argument in court. ACORN has no guarantees of public funding and in this case, the government is not taking away something that ACORN had acquired independently of the government itself. Its not a tax, fee, incarceration of organization officials, etc. In that sense, a government lawyer could easily make the argument that its not a punishment, but merely that the government was leaving them to fend for themselves, without extra help from the public treasury.
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