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Empire State Building to Celebrate Communism!

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posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by schrodingers dog
reply to post by AshleyD
 


Be careful with that one Ash ... there are very few, if any, nations, cultures, and religions with clean hands ... including our own.


What are you talking about? Are you a U.S. citizen? We have clean hands. I was thinking about it last night while I was buying my Thanksgiving Day turkey.

-if you didn't get the sarcasm just move on.




posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 02:31 PM
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Ok, let's play into the deflection attempts because apparently that is what everyone needs to do before I am allowed to express my disgust with the human rights violations in China.

America and their treatment of the native Americans: Horrid.
The crusades (Muslim vs. Christianity): Horrid.
Nazi Germany: Horrid.
The Inquisition period: Horrid.
The Russian revolution: Horrid.
The French Revolution: Horrid.
Illegal wars: Horrid.
Even legal wars: Still horrid because innocent life gets caught in the crossfire.
The current middle east issue: Horrid.
Violence, totalitarianism, corruption, cruelty in general: Horrid.
All evil regimes throughout the course of history that has mutilated and subjugated the masses for power and gain: Horrid.

Now can we get back to China? Or do we need to continue to trivialize atrocities because 'everyone does it,' thus paying a disservice to those who are currently suffering?

I'm against all cruelty regardless of where it comes from or who does it. We shouldn't ignore acts of cruelty from others because we are guilt ridden by our own especially when I have a feeling none of us have ever partaken in such acts of inhumanity.

By honoring this regime, you dishonor all who have died at the hands of cruel regimes- not just China.



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by AshleyD
Now can we get back to China? Or do we need to continue to trivialize atrocities because 'everyone does it,' thus paying a disservice to those who are currently suffering?


All I was getting at is what good is your moral indignation of China when you do not start in your own backyard?



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 02:41 PM
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reply to post by Lillydale
 


Well to be fair, it has been my experience that AshleyD speaks out against all injustices where she perceives them. Perhaps asking her to enumerate all of them in this thread is beyond the topic.

Having said that, my original observation of being aware of where one stands when they are casting stones is still apt ... not specific to AshleD, truth be told she is better aware of that concept than most, but in more general hypocrisy avoidance terms.

At the end of the day W&H Properties who owns and manages the ESB is a private company. For all we know the building might be full of Chinese tenants who paid to have this done or they just did it on their own. One could always contact them to voice their personal objection.


[edit on 30 Sep 2009 by schrodingers dog]



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 02:49 PM
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reply to post by schrodingers dog
 


not to nitpick but W&H manages the property. Empire State Building Associates LP owns it and W&H is part of Wein and Malkin which is under the Malkin Holdings umbrella.

I would imagine the LP is being rewarded, most likely monetarily, for tonight's color show. I know that the building was suffering thanks to the lending crisis. Their line of credit was reduced, I think, even though the property is the most famous real estate in NYC now that the towers are gone.

If I don't forget, I'll snap some shots of the lights tonight so you guys can see how visually offensive it is.

Truth is, for the folks that live here, we almost never know the reasons behind the color schemes. Other than the obvious (July 4th, the Yankees win the world series, Christmas etc), the colors are merely colors and I am always telling my wife or my kids that I haven't a clue why the
building is lit up like a sno cone



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by schrodingers dog
At the end of the day W&H Properties who owns and manages the ESB is a private company. For all we know the building might be full of Chinese tenants who paid to have this done or they just did it on their own. One could always contact them to voice their personal objection.


That was kind of my point. It is some colored lights this one time on private property. We have an entire national holiday that we use to celebrate genocide, mass rape and torture. I just would think that anyone with such sensibilities would be more concerned about a real event that happens all the time and is government sanctioned and is every bit as evil as anything those red lights will be standing for. I guess it is just me though.



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by Crakeur
reply to post by schrodingers dog
 


not to nitpick but W&H manages the property. Empire State Building Associates LP owns it and W&H is part of Wein and Malkin which is under the Malkin Holdings umbrella.


Oh ok ... I got my info from wiki
:


The building is owned and managed by W&H Properties. *


Interesting thingie though, at the bottom of the page it cites one of the ESB's previous tenants as China National Tourist Office. Probably a coincidence though.

And yeah, when we were living in the city we never really knew what the lights were for other than St. Patrick's day and the other obvious ones. Not to mention that from street level no one really ever pays attention.



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 03:12 PM
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Originally posted by AshleyD

I'm against all cruelty regardless of where it comes from or who does it. We shouldn't ignore acts of cruelty from others because we are guilt ridden by our own especially when I have a feeling none of us have ever partaken in such acts of inhumanity.

By honoring this regime, you dishonor all who have died at the hands of cruel regimes- not just China.


I couldn't have said it better.
I was going to type something but that pretty much sums it up perfectly.

[edit on 30-9-2009 by elcapitano75]



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 03:18 PM
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reply to post by Lillydale
 



All I was getting at is what good is your moral indignation of China when you do not start in your own backyard?


Me personally? Or was 'you' mentioned in general terms? Until you know me or what I do, I hope 'you' was meant in general terms.

You're talking to someone who despises cruelty in any form, under any banner, so until you know me, please don't make assumptions about where my concerns are. You make the ignorant assumption that my abhorrence for one set of atrocities means I condone my own? Please.

I'm a registered member of a Texas pro-life group but get accused of being morally superior and of sticking my nose in other people's business. I'm against the war and get accused of being Anti-American. A paying member of HUSA and my husband suddenly thinks I'm some extremist animal activist. Even as a devout Christian, if I speak out against corruption in the church I get my loyalties questioned.

I am involved in 'my own backyard.' Thanks. Hopefully you won't jump to such conclusions next time about someone you don't even know.

The reason this topic upsets me so much and why I am getting so emotional, even if it's 'just lights on private property' is because I despise cruelty so much. Even something so silly as colored lights to honor the anniversary of China gets under my skin because I know what that anniversary represents.

I'm not going to lose any sleep over it and my participation in this thread isn't going to change the world, I understand, but even the slightest honor is an offense to the innocents who were harmed.



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 03:24 PM
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Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by Lillydale
 



All I was getting at is what good is your moral indignation of China when you do not start in your own backyard?


Me personally? Or was 'you' mentioned in general terms? Until you know me or what I do, I hope 'you' was meant in general terms.

You're talking to someone who despises cruelty in any form, under any banner, so until you know me, please don't make assumptions about where my concerns are. You make the ignorant assumption that my abhorrence for one set of atrocities means I condone my own? Please.

I'm a registered member of a Texas pro-life group but get accused of being morally superior and of sticking my nose in other people's business. I'm against the war and get accused of being Anti-American. A paying member of HUSA and my husband suddenly thinks I'm some extremist animal activist. Even as a devout Christian, if I speak out against corruption in the church I get my loyalties questioned.

I am involved in 'my own backyard.' Thanks. Hopefully you won't jump to such conclusions next time about someone you don't even know.

The reason this topic upsets me so much and why I am getting so emotional, even if it's 'just lights on private property' is because I despise cruelty so much. Even something so silly as colored lights to honor the anniversary of China gets under my skin because I know what that anniversary represents.

I'm not going to lose any sleep over it and my participation in this thread isn't going to change the world, I understand, but even the slightest honor is an offense to the innocents who were harmed.


So....do you celebrate Thanksgiving at your house or not?



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 03:26 PM
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reply to post by schrodingers dog
 


the site is overstating their ownership although they might be the general partner so they do, technically, own the building, along with another 98 partners.

you're right, it's barely noticeable unless you are far away or coming into the city via one of the many bridges.

total side bar but kinda cool tidbit. on a clear night, you cannot look up at the top of the building and count 5 seconds out without seeing a flash. This, of course, only works when the observation deck is open.



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 03:50 PM
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It's shameful. Shows the country has cowered to Communist China. Marking the anniversary of the Communist Revolution shows how poorly educated Americans are, or how short term our memories are.

I guess that's how America has changed, celebrating and creating Oppression. Not letting a single disaster go to waste in order to create additional paths for Oppression.

From: www.foxnews.com...

Empire State Building Goes Red for Communist China, Sparking Protest
Wednesday, September 30, 2009
By Joseph Abrams

NEW YORK — New York is seeing red over the decision to turn the city's highest beacon — and one of America's symbols for free enterprise — into a shining monument honoring China's communist revolution Wednesday night.

The Empire State Building is set to be illuminated in red and yellow lights to celebrate the 60th anniversary of the bloody communist takeover.
...

I like the comment from the 69-year old, relflecting what the older generation remembers.

...
"I think it's a bad idea," said Dick Paasch, 69, from Billings, Montana. "The Chinese Revolution ... in the years 1958-1960, there were something like 26 million people starved to death. Why would we want to celebrate something like that?.
...


It's a sign, of how quickly change has decayed America.



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 03:55 PM
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reply to post by Dbriefed
 


I'd say it has to do with our short term memories and lack of education, specifically civics classes. As long as Americans can watch their TV's drink their Latte's, and can shop to buy our useless widgets and ipods every single weekend, they can turn a blind eye to the atrocities of the Real World.

We are a deplorable society!



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 04:00 PM
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reply to post by Dbriefed
 


I am assuming, since you feel this strongly about not supporting a communist regime that nothing you own is made in China right? Including any electronic equipment, car parts, textiles, etc.

Cause if you did that would be supporting them quite a bit more than turing on a couple of light bulbs and would put you in a rather exaggerated foundation of hypocrisy.

Just sayin' ...



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by Dbriefed
Shows the country has cowered to Communist China.


the country has nothing to do with the decision made by the managing agent for the Empire State Building. I'm not sure why this is still an issue. The building is privately owned and they can light their building any way they please, honoring anyone they want. As I mentioned, they're probably getting some form of compensation for this. It's not gov't sanctioned.



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 04:09 PM
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reply to post by Crakeur
 


Yeah C, all those facts have now been repeated ad nauseam ...

I suspect they are being ignored simply cause they don't help the indignation level that many wish to project and are predisposed to.

It's not that uncommon you know.



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 04:33 PM
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reply to post by Lillydale
 



So....do you celebrate Thanksgiving at your house or not?


No, not at my house. But I'll confess it's due to my inability to cook.

Back on topic instead of your deflection attempts. What are your thoughts on the atrocities committed under communist China (murder, forced abortion, infanticide, religious persecution, ethnic cleansing, starving the population to death, seizure of private property, etc.)? And what is your opinion of the commemoration of the anniversary of communist China by the empire state building? Acceptable?

And do you or do you not see it as an act of pandering to them because in spite of their brutality, we need to keep up appearances with them for economic reasons? It feels like we say to hell with human rights or what you're doing over there, just keep our economy afloat and we'll look the other way. We have forgone our principles.

That is how I see our pandering to China. We don't care about what they do to our fellow humans but we'll celebrate their birthday for them because we have a need for them.

It reminds me of this incident:
www.telegraph.co.uk...



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 04:41 PM
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Originally posted by schrodingers dog
reply to post by Dbriefed
 


I am assuming, since you feel this strongly about not supporting a communist regime that nothing you own is made in China right? Including any electronic equipment, car parts, textiles, etc.

Cause if you did that would be supporting them quite a bit more than turing on a couple of light bulbs and would put you in a rather exaggerated foundation of hypocrisy.

Just sayin' ...


I think you misconstrue support. If we buy chinese products it is not necessarily in support of communism and our dollars are not specifically supporting the regime. In fact I would argue the opposite, if we ignore china and refuse to buy their products we are keeping their people in poverty and only encouraging their regime to abuse it's people and animals.

If we buy chinese products the standard of living in china will inevitably increase and thus I argue that the lights are the issue, the intangible example we are setting. We are against everything their regime stands for, and all of the human and animal rights violations they represent. Buying chinese products is not a show of support for their regime and most Americans would not say they are trying to help the chinese populous, yet the purchases and imports inevitably help their populous.



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 04:42 PM
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reply to post by Crakeur
 



the country has nothing to do with the decision made by the managing agent for the Empire State Building. I'm not sure why this is still an issue. The building is privately owned and they can light their building any way they please, honoring anyone they want. As I mentioned, they're probably getting some form of compensation for this. It's not gov't sanctioned.


This is indeed very true and I'm not ignoring this fact on purpose. But it is an interesting point regarding free speech. I may hate it but they still have a right to do it. There's a lot of messages and opinions out there I find disgusting however, that is the cost of free speech. We must tolerate views and expressions we don't like.

With that said, it is 100% within their right to do so and I understand they don't speak for all of America and that this isn't the federal government behind the display.

But at the same time, it still makes my heart heavy and all I can do is take advantage of my right to strongly disagree in return with the message they are sending.



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 04:50 PM
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Originally posted by AshleyD
reply to post by Lillydale
 



So....do you celebrate Thanksgiving at your house or not?


No, not at my house. But I'll confess it's due to my inability to cook.

Back on topic instead of your deflection attempts. What are your thoughts on the atrocities committed under communist China (murder, forced abortion, infanticide, religious persecution, ethnic cleansing, starving the population to death, seizure of private property, etc.)? And what is your opinion of the commemoration of the anniversary of communist China by the empire state building? Acceptable?


Honestly? Atrocities all over are deplorable. The problem is that there are atrocities all over. You cannot fight everything all of the time and it just makes sense to me to start here where my blood had a hand in the atrocities and where my present and future are effected by it still. If you think China is more important that the U.S. is then I guess our priorities are a little different. I live in Western NY. That means that my outrageous tax dollars go to fund that sparkling city I have never been within 200 miles of and could really care less about. More of my tax dollars still go to help victimize people in this state here and now so some lights there really make little difference to me.


And do you or do you not see it as an act of pandering to them because in spite of their brutality, we need to keep up appearances with them for economic reasons? It feels like we say to hell with human rights or what you're doing over there, just keep our economy afloat and we'll look the other way. We have forgone our principles.


This is my point dear. The United States supports corrupt and violent regimes all over this planet. Ensuring forced abortion stays legal in the Marianas Islands in order to keep girls working in the underage sex trade anyone????? Horrible things go on all over and it is accepted in the name of power and money. Why are you so worried about China? Is the Empire State Building the spokesbuilding for America?


That is how I see our pandering to China. We don't care about what they do to our fellow humans but we'll celebrate their birthday for them because we have a need for them.

It reminds me of this incident:
www.telegraph.co.uk...


Do you shop at Wal-mart by any chance?



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