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Columbine Killer's Parents Refuse Apology

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posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 09:01 PM
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Its pretty insane that they'd not say that they're sorry about the mess. I can see them saying that they're not all that responsible for it (but, of course, they are), but still offering apoligies and feeling sorry for it.




posted on Oct, 12 2006 @ 09:24 PM
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What about the parents of the children who bullied the Comumbine killers?
What about mass-media and pop-culture that tells you that if you aren't one of the "pretty people", you are worthless?
What about the teachers who never bothered to take interest in the problems that these angst-ridden teens were facing?
What about the pressures to succeed in the workplace that keep parents from being able to spend proper time with their children?

What about the sociaty we've built that encourages greed and intolerance above all else?

There's plenty of blame to go around.
There's no need to hang it all on the parents of these two children who were ultimatly victems themselves.

I appologize for my personal involvement in a system that creates monsters.
If more people understood that we're ALL to blame, maybe we could start to adress the real problems instead of looking for scapegoats for our personal gratification.



posted on Oct, 13 2006 @ 12:49 AM
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Depression, anger, shyness, the desire to eliminate people can all come from how your treated not just at school but in society.

Bullying doesn't have to be physical, it can also be mental as it was for me. I was elminated from all groups in school because i was naturally shy. I tried to play sports but i was never given a fair go. My santuary was the library.

Work hasn't been much different at times, i don't drink or smoke yet was in the military for 12 years and only got promoted through shear hard work not because i was popular like many others who got promoted before me.

I am 35, single and never had a girlfriend because of my earlier treatment. My social skills outside of the work environment never developed and despite counselling i still find it hard to make friends and trust people.

I can sympathises with people who snap like the columbine shooters and take revenge on society. I am now a teacher and i look for the signs in my students of 'bullying victims" who are young adults mostly now and i have helped a few deal with their problems instead of seeing them suffer.

If anyone should aplogise here its the people who victimised the two teenagers, not the parents. My parents are not to blame for how i turned out, the people who victimised me are. My parents are some of the few people that i trust.



posted on Oct, 13 2006 @ 04:59 AM
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I'm probably looking at this situation from a slightly different angle than most of you coming from USA.
The picture that we here in europe see from american high schools is pretty much from TV teen series. I understand that they are not correct representations of the situation, but i assume some issues are facts:
1)athlete/chearleader worship
2)closing kids into several castes depending on their interests in extra educational activities

One of the main differences to our educational system is the fact that sports and other "non-educational" so closely tied together in the american model. We don't have school teams on sports, our junior teams are clubs non affiliated to school so teams members don't practice on school time / grounds (for example local ice hockey club has teams in both 7 years olds and in Finnish Hockey League) . This allows kids to spend time outside the school environment and it mixes kids from different schools based on common interests. It allows a dual social network, one in school and other in hobbies/sports.

Of course bulluing happens here too, i was bullied in school but survived pretty well because i had other friends beside those in school. (And even if i got my ass kicked at school, i could still trust my class mates helping me if some strangers attacked me)

I hope this post isn't too OT or confusing...



posted on Oct, 13 2006 @ 05:26 AM
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Originally posted by dagebow
Depression, anger, shyness, the desire to eliminate people can all come from how your treated not just at school but in society.

Bullying doesn't have to be physical, it can also be mental as it was for me. I was elminated from all groups in school because i was naturally shy. I tried to play sports but i was never given a fair go. My santuary was the library.

Work hasn't been much different at times, i don't drink or smoke yet was in the military for 12 years and only got promoted through shear hard work not because i was popular like many others who got promoted before me.

I am 35, single and never had a girlfriend because of my earlier treatment. My social skills outside of the work environment never developed and despite counselling i still find it hard to make friends and trust people.


Oi, hang on a sec...

There's also a certain amount of personal respouncibility that you should be taking.

I got it rough in school. I was an athsmatic runt with a bit of a temper control issue (I've never been able to put up with bullies). I was picked on physicly and verbally. Constantly. To make things even more "fun" I was struggling acedemicly aswell since I have a (then undiagnosed) form of dyslexia (thus my rotten spelling
).

I wasn't exactly the most social kid after dealing with all that BS. Things improved a bit in highschool due to the fact that I'd been studying martial arts and the thugs were getting hurt when they picked on me, but I was still painfully shy and unsure of myself.

To make a longish story shorter, I decided to improve. I put away (most of) my angst and take some pride in myself.

These days, people are often suprised when I tell them I still feel shy and unsure of myself. I enjoy a very happy sexlife, am valued at work, and would hazzard to say I've become "popular" (although even just typing that made me cringe) in my comunity.

I got a good dose of insite through my early life and have managed to apply it. I'm still quite a cynic, and I still can't abide a bully, but I've turned those into positive aspects. I'm anti-pop, anti-consumeristic, and anti-ignorance, but I'm happy with that!

I know the blame lies with sociaty. We're all part of sociaty, so we're all part of the problem.

I'm happy to say I've fixed on part of the problem. I've fixed myself.
I'm now able to see past pop cluter and the mass-media message. I've rejected my media implanted desires and found that I'm just as content with a little or alot.

You need to start with yourself.
Everybody needs to start with themselves.
If everyone fixed themselves, the problem would be fixed.


[edit on 13-10-2006 by BitRaiser]



posted on Oct, 13 2006 @ 05:39 AM
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Originally posted by northwolf
The picture that we here in europe see from american high schools is pretty much from TV teen series. I understand that they are not correct representations of the situation, but i assume some issues are facts:
1)athlete/chearleader worship
2)closing kids into several castes depending on their interests in extra educational activities

Rather astute observation considering the source of your information.


It goes way beyond that, however.

Pop-culture and mass-media have taught us a warped value set. We have it drilled into us from very early on that only the "pretty people" can be successful. That success is only measured by your income and the things you own. That happiness and wealth are inseperable.

We are taught to do do what it takes. To claw down the other guy to get what we want. To be intolerant and strive to dominate each other.

We are raised on images of greed, disrespect, and happy ignorance.

Almost every aspect of our sociaty has been invaded my rampent consumerism.
It's simply not healthy.

Infact, it's a monster making engine.



posted on Oct, 13 2006 @ 09:33 PM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
Its pretty insane that they'd not say that they're sorry about the mess. I can see them saying that they're not all that responsible for it (but, of course, they are), but still offering apoligies and feeling sorry for it.


Why the hell should they apologise?! How would it accomplish anything? Will it get closure?
"Umm, yeah sorry that my son killed your son. We cool?"

To me, it's an attempt for the parents of the victims to try and understand what happened and to sue the asses off the killer's parents, as there are many pending lawsuits against the parents of both Klebold and Harris. Knowing that the killer's parents were "bad" and having apologised for it, would be like admitting that they were negligent to their son, and caused this whole thing to happen (which they didn't). They didn't tip their son over the edge.



posted on Oct, 14 2006 @ 08:26 AM
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To all the parents here. How many of you really know wats really going on in your kid's head?

The parents should not apologize. They should express grief but not apologize.

To all the bullies out there. You better think twice before bullying, or u can get shot.
So stop being jerks and picking on kids.



posted on Oct, 14 2006 @ 08:31 AM
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I think we should block off the city and hand a gun and some grenades to all the parents and let them go at it Unreal Tournament Style!

Last family standing will be the winner!



posted on Oct, 14 2006 @ 05:39 PM
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Originally posted by BitRaiser
What about the parents of the children who bullied the Comumbine killers?

They can apologize for their kids being bullies. Their kids didn't kill anyone.

There's plenty of blame to go around.

Only those two boys ran around shooting other students. They were the ultimate bullies.

There's no need to hang it all on the parents of these two children who were ultimatly victems themselves.

The issue is, that the parents knew their kids were seriously screwed up, knew that they were building up stockpiles of weapons, and did nothing.


If more people understood that we're ALL to blame, maybe we could start to adress the real problems instead of looking for scapegoats for our personal gratification.

These parents aren't being scapegoated, it'd be proper for them to say that they regret the loss of life at their own children's hands. This really isn't a difficult issue. Yes, lots of things 'pushed' those two kids into a killing rampage, but they are the ones that actually did it, and these are the parents that sat idly by while their distraught and dysfunctional kids stockpiled weapons.


I am now a teacher and i look for the signs in my students of 'bullying victims"

What about the 'killing rampage victims'?
If some jock is to blame because they made those two lunatics 'feel bad', then aren't the Columbine killers to blame for personally executing their fellow students? And they didn't take it out on the bullies and jocks and the like, they simply went on a rampage.

If anyone should aplogise here its the people who victimised the two teenagers, not the parents.

If anyone should apoligize, it should be the parents for rearing those two monsters and being so utterly irresponsible as to allow them to have so many weapons. What if things were different and those idiots had merely killed themselves? How responsible of a parent would they be for having sad lonely loosers as kids and letting them around guns that they could kill themselves with?
Well now its not just them that are greiving parents, its a lot of people. And they don't even have the decency to express sorrow for what their kids did. No wonder those two rejects went on a killing rampage, look at the morons they have for parents.

My parents are not to blame for how i turned out, the people who victimised me are.

You are to blame. IF you couldn't hack it, thats your fault.


MacDonagh
Why the hell should they apologise?!

I beleive its called 'simple human decency'. If a parent's child gets into a car accident and cracks up somoene elses car, its simple decency to say 'I am so sorry that my kid did this'. THey don't have to say 'we are horrible parents and its all our faults', but a statement of sorrow over it is simply the decent thing to do.

to sue the asses off the killer's parents,

If they were suing, they've sure waited a bizzarely long period of time to do it.

Knowing that the killer's parents were "bad" and having apologised for it, would be like admitting that they were negligent to their son

There's not a court in the US that that kind of logic would stand up in.

They didn't tip their son over the edge.

Its their kids, they're responsible for them, at minimum to the point that they should say they are sorry when their kids hurt someone elses kids. I mean, wouldn't we also expect the parents of a bully to say to the parents of the kid being bullied 'i'm sorry that junior bullied your boy, it was wrong'?????


half_minded
To all the bullies out there. You better think twice before bullying, or u can get shot.

This is absurd. Bullying isn't nearly as bad as having some kid unload a shotgun in your face. The Columbine Killers are the criminals here, they're the ultimate bullies. They couldn't cope with school, they were ticked at being unpopular, and so, like every other bully, resorted to force instead of social ability, or being able to deal with it. And, again, the people that bullied the Columbine killers werent' the ones that got shot, they were too scared of them even then that they didn't go after them.

So stop being jerks and picking on kids.

The Columbine Killers killed kids, far better to have bullies who don't kill, or heck don't even beat them up, than stupid maniacs like those two.



posted on Oct, 14 2006 @ 09:27 PM
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If they were suing, they've sure waited a bizzarely long period of time to do it.
They are probebly biding their time until they crack under the media spotlight, and start getting on their hands and knees and begging for forgiveness. They regret the loss of life, and they regret not seeing signs that something was up with their son, putting it down to the awkwardness of adolescene.

Its their kids, they're responsible for them, at minimum to the point that they should say they are sorry when their kids hurt someone elses kids. I mean, wouldn't we also expect the parents of a bully to say to the parents of the kid being bullied 'i'm sorry that junior bullied your boy, it was wrong'?????

I sincerely doubt that they were bad parents and their son Dylan Klebold was the drug crazed killer, that the media portrayed him to be. I'm not sure if it happens over in America, but the parents of bullies over here are self absorbed vain ogres who don't feel sorry for anything and may even feel a little pride for their young sprout smashing the weaklings. (Perhaps that's what the Klebolds feel, but you might have to ask them.)
Folk do bad things because of 3 different reasons. Jealousy, money and revenge. Vengence is what they were after, for either the way they were treated by their fellow peers, or because of the destructive influences they came under. Perhaps an unhealthy mixture of those factors, caused them not to care about who they hit. Just as long as they did it. Everything has motive.



posted on Oct, 14 2006 @ 10:18 PM
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The only thing they should apologize for is trusting the Doctor that prescribed the anti-depressants that made them lose touch with reality. The big pharma should be ashamed and apologize. Before you flame me for this you should look up what these drugs are doing to a lot of people.



posted on Oct, 14 2006 @ 10:53 PM
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There's a quote from Bowling for Columbine which I personally think sheds some light on this issue. The quote was



Moore: If you were to talk directly to the kids at Columbine or the people in that community, what would you say to them if they were here right now?

Marilyn Manson: I wouldn't say a single word to them, I would listen to what they have to say and that's what no one did.


Rather ironic that these wise words are from an individual who was generalized as being part of the problem. This is not an attempt to justify Marilyn Manson but his comment is very profound.

Bullying will not go away but I think it can be better identified both within the school systems and from a parental view. Athletes are unfortunately placed on a higher pedestal and this has led to many instances of bullying. I'm not saying all bullying is attributed to athletes but in most cases I think this rings true. I dont blame jocks, I blame schools for making it acceptable that jocks are to be considered a better breed. Schools typically dedicate a lot of their time and money to ensuring the school image is front and centre, of which sports plays a pivotal role if not a frontrunner. Once this attitude changes I think instances of bullying may go down, but will not be eliminated.

Back to the topic, no I don't think the parents need to apologize. This horrible tragedy had cause and effect, of which the killers parents had no knowledge of.

brill



posted on Oct, 15 2006 @ 12:59 AM
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I say it's the parents fault. If they had taught thier kids to stand up for themselves, then they wouldn't have been bullied in the first place. I was bullied maybe 3 or 4 times in my whole life, and guess what, I made them stop because my father taught me to stand up for myself. The funny thing is, all the people who tried to bully me, are now friends. The parents should apologize for being bad parents that didn't teach thier children how to respond to a bully.



posted on Oct, 15 2006 @ 06:57 AM
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Originally posted by Nygdan

Originally posted by BitRaiser
What about the parents of the children who bullied the Comumbine killers?


They can apologize for their kids being bullies. Their kids didn't kill anyone.

The teenage suicide rate is quite high.

Originally posted by LordBaskettIV
I say it's the parents fault. If they had taught thier kids to stand up for themselves, then they wouldn't have been bullied in the first place.

I was bullied nearly my entire school life.. I dreaded going to school every morning. I was also a selective mute.. [social phobia] bit hard to stand up for yourself when you can't speak.. but it's ever so easy to blame the victim [or the victims parents] rather than holding bullies responsible for their actions [no I don't mean shooting them]. Why is that? Why is it seen as a social perk of being popular where even teachers allow it and parents will actually be proud of their kids.. 'assertiveness'? Why is it when a kid finnally snaps and goes on a killing spree it's suddenly inhumane.. yet the years of literal torchure some kids go through is considered to be just a quirk of childhood?

Oh thats right.. kids will be kids.


[edit on 15-10-2006 by riley]



posted on Oct, 15 2006 @ 06:58 AM
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The parents didn't do anything, so it shouldn't be a big deal if the parents refuse to Apologise.



posted on Oct, 15 2006 @ 07:08 AM
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People make a big deal and a big show of it, because they want someone to blame, but they don't wish to point the fingers at the school system, or the people within the system, or the police who took forever to get into the school, causing folk to bleed out.



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 05:59 AM
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Originally posted by Nygdan
The issue is, that the parents knew their kids were seriously screwed up, knew that they were building up stockpiles of weapons, and did nothing.


Exactly. I remember reading something from one of the killers diaries when it was published. He said that his mother saw a shotgun in his backpack one day but did nothing. He figured she thought it was a bb gun.

What parent allows their kid to take a bb gun to school anyways?

The parents did nothing. They didn't get involved when their kids were being bullied. They didn't get involved when their kids took weapons to school. They didn't keep watch over what their children were doing.

YES the bullies are partly to blame for helping to create the monsters. The killers themselves are to blame for pulling the trigger. But the parents are legally responsible for their offspring and from what I see (which I admit may only be a small window into their lives), the parents SCREWED UP BIG TIME.

I'm not placing all the blame on the parents. But they are at least partly responsible. The parents of the bullies at school are partly responsible as well. They didn't teach their children to be responsible and polite people.

There is a lot of blame that can be stuck on different people but in the end it was the kids themselves who killed who are the ultimate to blame.



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 12:09 PM
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I'm probably going to be one of the few voices of dissent in this thread, though hopefully I explain my standpoint adequately.

The Parents of Klebold and Harris owe the community nothing.
If I were them, I'd have filed criminal charges against the school board.

Now let me just preface this by saying I in no way, shape, or form condone what Klebold and Harris did. There is no excuse for what they did, except possibly that they were driven to madness by their hopeless environment.

I was fascinated with this case for a while when I began reading into it. I found a number of local newspaper articles, interviews with people whom had known them, and a number of other facts that were largely left out of the mainstream media. Something damned sick was happening at that school. I had a whole dossier of events that were happening, it's buried in one of my boxes at home, but might dig it out at some point. It makes for a very disturbing story, something far different than most of the other typical copycat shootings that happened afterward.

Now I know jocks are typically the top of the pecking order in high school around the country, that's just a sad fact of life, and geeks get no love until college, when brains are appreciated. However, in Columbine High School, the ran the school. Jocks would brutally pummel students and teachers alike, right out in plain sight, if their demands were not met. Countless complaints fell on deaf ears to the school board. It didn't matter. Threats were actively engaged every day. Memoirs found in Harris' journal even recall day, after day, after day, of a truck of jocks that would seek them out after school and throw empty beer bottles at them. Several entries talked about having to pick glass out of his face and arms. The jocks were far more of a mafia in the school than any trench-coat wearing kids. Teachers were constantly cowed by the jocks into submission, and when they braved the jocks, the principle swiftly told them to but out. If they still refused, they got pummeled.

The journal entries themselves read like one of those Kafka-esque descents into madness. He starts off normal, becomes irritated, tries to vent his frustration to deaf ears, begins seeing his classmates as monsters, then the staff as ringleaders to the monsters, then eventually the entire world has been twisted into some sort of horror, the likes of which fail to even remotely tie to reality anymore. These kids went nuts. Plain and simple.

Torment after torment gone uncared about, and as best either boy could tell, the school, the system, the state, and in fact the entire world not only approved this, but encouraged it. There were no police interventions, complaints to the cops went ignored as well. No one cared for either child. As far as either was concerned, they were on their own. The last few pages of the journal detail a plan to blow up the school, steal a car, drive to the airport, hijack a plane and fly it to New York and crash it into a building. But while the parents were too negligent, the school system itself was downright criminal.

I'm not one to blame school boards often. I think they make a lot of mistakes at times, and try to solve far too much with medication and conformity, but I would rarely advocate action against any schoolboard because parents typically are asking them to do an impossible job of raising their children for them without giving them the permission to discipline the children or even allow them to compete for positive rewards.

This school system, however, was downright criminal, and as far as I'm concerned, the worst tragedy of the entire situation is that the children that Klebold and Harris killed barely even knew them or had any interaction with them. The jocks that tormented them went pretty much unscathed, and probably still rule the school to this day. No justice, not even vigilante justice, or even the perceived justice of a madman. Just a couple of kids who, through years of brutal assaults against them, with no outlet and no help, become worse than animals as a result. I'd expect the same to have happened to anyone in such a situation.

Again though, I need to stress for any of our younger audience out there, that you should absolutely never let things get to this point. If Columbine taught the world anything it's that school violence gets headlines. If it's really that bad, go to the media with a list of names of all the school board members whom have refused to help you. Or, if it's not that bad, but just annoying, content yourself with the knowledge that everything equals out in college, and there's no better feeling than driving to McDonald's years later and seeing the captain of the football team at the window.



posted on Oct, 16 2006 @ 12:55 PM
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These kids, I will repeat were taking Serotonin reuptake inhibitors. These drugs are accepted by the public but are causing people to lose their minds and killing themselves. When these kids that are tormented they decide to not just kill themselves but to take the tormentors out.



From Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org...

In early 2006 GlaxoSmithKline issued a press release[5] stating that new meta-analysis of their clinical trial data has revealed a statistically significant higher frequency of suicidality in patients treated with their SSRI, paroxetine (Paxil) than with placebo.





May 12, 2006 | FDA Warns of Suicide Risk for Paxil
The antidepressant Paxil may raise the risk of suicidal behavior in young adults, GlaxoSmithKline and the Food and Drug Administration warned Friday in a letter to doctors. The warning letter was accompanied by changes to the labeling of both Paxil and Paxil CR, a controlled-release version of the...


Big pharma is out for big bucks and will do anything to keep the public from being nformed about this SSRI suicide rate in young people. Why do you think the school shootings begining timeline coincides with youth being prescribed these drugs?

Deny Ignorance!



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