The Lie Machine--Just who is behind the anti-health care reform movement?

Originally posted by centurion1211

Originally posted by nunya13
reply to post by centurion1211

 

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I stated in my OP just where the "death panel" claim came from. And it's all a bunch of hooey. Bringing up claims like these just further confuse the issue and incite rage and fear and prevent people from making a rational decision about health care.

I just went back and re-read the OP.

This is not fear mongering at all.

Page 425 of HR 3200 did say those exact words. And IF those words do not make it into a final bill, it will only be because people have exposed these things to the public, who's outrage has made the liberals in congress agree to have them removed. To me, that is entirely a good and useful thing since congress has admitted that they don't read the bills.

Expose these things to the light of day, the same way the obama administration has been made to do an about face on several other key issues.

[edit on 9/30/2009 by centurion1211]

Now, I am breaking my word that I was done here. Oh well, things happen.

Show me where in page 425 HR 3200 has "death panels"? Oh, you mean where, as now in Medicaid/Medicare, which even republicans supported and voted for, that physicians would get reimbursed when a patient wanted to discuss end of life decisions?

Sigh, that is not a "death panel", it is the same thing that is now on the books for Medicare/Medicaid.

It is a good thing for patients to be able to discuss with their physicians end of life choices.

When a patient wishes to discuss end of life care decisions with their physician, the physician get's reimbursed for their time. Otherwise, a person has to pay for this consultation out of pocket. Which, as such a consultation usually takes more than 15 minutes obviously, will cost upwards of several hundred dollars. Which you are correct, this reimbursement has now been removed from the bill per all the fear mongering, and physicians will not be reimbursed when a patients wishes to discuss this issue.

Personally, I think it has to do with certain factions not wanting people to have the right to make informed decisions in regards to end of life care. It is another way of CONTROLLING what choices you have in life and in death.

Next.

"Death panels" refers to the government panels who will ration out health care procedures based on age and quality of life.

You cannot continue to pretend there will be no such entities in the Obamacare system.

I don't think some of you get it. Right now, if your insurance company tries to deny you a procedure based on your age you still have the option to pay for it yourself, lobby various groups to intervene or if you are really being treated unfairly, sue your insurance company.

Under the new system you won't have any of those options. If the government decides your too old to live your gone.

Do some research rather than letting the left wing press sources tell you how things are. Look into the abuses under national health care in Canada and England where it's routine for elderly patients to be starved to death in hospital. (When they can get approved for anything).

What makes our health care system so great is the fact that quality of care and extension of quality living have increased with each passing year. When we're paying our mandatory health care fees into a huge government fund each and every month I can promise you will see care being rationed like it's going out of style. They will do everything possible to keep every dollar possible in that fund which means routine denials of care for people not based on need or quality of life but based on greed.

Originally posted by ecoparity
"Death panels" refers to the government panels who will ration out health care procedures based on age and quality of life.

There are no such "death panels" the bill. If you could reference where the bill mentions death panels or any of the sort would be much appreciated.

The current corporate healthcare industry rations their healthcare to maximise profits (hense refusing treatment on weak excuses like acne) and they have death panels. Its rather humerous to see conservatives go on about death panels, healthcare rationing when the current private industry has been doing so for decades... and yet you all continue to keep shut on that fact?

SG

Originally posted by nunya13

Rolling Stone Magazine

Conservatives were quick to insist that the near-riot — the first of many town-hall mobs that would dominate the headlines in August — was completely spontaneous. The protesters didn't show up "because of some organized group," Rick Scott, the head of Conservatives for Patients' Rights, told reporters. "They're mad about the stimulus bill, the bailout, the economy. Now they see that their health care is about to be taken over by the government."

Here's a little bit of additional information on Mr. Rick Scott:

Rick Scott profits off the uninsured

A healthcare reform foe's alleged history of discrimination

It's a bit of a read, but if one is going to investigate ...

It's really something to see so many folk being wagged by people who care nothing about them, use them, their convictions and ignorance, to line their own pockets.


[edit on 30 Sep 2009 by schrodingers dog]

reply to post by ecoparity


Ah...so we should only listen to the right wing press. This is what I'm talking about. People only want to listen to one side or the other and anything the other side says is absolute hogwash. You have to look at all sides, cut out the crap, and you get a better big picture free from politics and bias.

reply to post by schrodingers dog


Thank you very much, Shrodinger. Finally someone who "got it".

I don't care which side your on or if you want/don't want the bill to pass. What I care about is people listening to hacks and a-wads like Mr. Scott and letting people like him pull their strings and steer them into become frantic people who have lost all sense of reason and rely only on emotions.

They should just do away with all social programs and let us die in the streets, sell this big plot of land to China and go on vacation. Yea that sounds stupid but that is what some people want us to beleive, however nothing will change if we do not have government run health care. A lot will change if we do. Its not a Dem or Rep. thing Both sides and all politicians will profit from anything they pass or it wouldn't happen. Most are criminals that beleive they have ultimate power. Why do some want this to pass? So you have free medical care????? Nothing is free in any form of government!!!!!

I went to a tea party .

the people there had no plan , no common rant - chat - or sign

I heard on a email that I got from my sister , in a cc:/ she had put togather , and I put togather my own cc:/

I also heard the local radio station talk about it .

talking to the people at the post office on april 15 , there was a group of about 15 - 30 that seem'd a bit out of place , like proffessional political types ...

some time later a bull horn came out and the pretty boy ( 35-40 year old who looked like a advertising model ) unsuccessfully tried to organize us .

because these guys intrested me.. I talked to one , who seemed to be a veit nam vet advocate .

what was clear was that they did not organize this... but they certainly wanted a peice of this action ...


the problem was , we ( the protesters) were not going along with the programm .

the " proffessionals " were clearly unhappy with the idea that they had no control over the massage or the direction of things .
and also seem'd to lok down on the crude sign's and the common dress of those who appeared .


frankly speaking.. I think the " press" is not trust worthy .
what is in this thresd may be accurate... but is not the truth .
and ... very shortly , the proffessional's are going to lose what little controll they have... and this is going to get ugly .

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we are americans... and we can shoot back... I suggest you do not shoot at the cop's ( god save us if it comes to that ) but if they shoot at you , in WWI it was called killing captains for breakfast . remove those who give the orders .

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cops are order . if you lose the cops ( oh my god! ) the world falls apart . never ever shoot at the soldiers , national guard or the cops .

seek out the guy telling the cops or the soldiers to shoot at civilians.

seek out and find the captains !

the people that make " shoot civilians " that next right thing to do... needs to set an exsample for others ... and any one that says that " shooting at civilians needs to happen " needs to set an exsample for the next guy in charge .

they need to suddenly and swiftly be shot by sniper , soldier , staff , or shadows .

you give that order , and you need to know , your life will be extremely short , and a violent end ...
... give that order ... with your back against a wall , and make sure a sword does not rush thru the wall and into your back .

also ... the second in command must know in his heart , give that order... and its open season , barrel against the back of my boss's head and I am in command now .
' with a diffrent order '

we are americans , we shoot back .

there are diffrent rules here , but europeans don't know these diffrent rules.... so the news people don't know , and the people in charge don't know these diffrent rules ...

rule one , follow orders... rule two... never shoot at people who aren't shooting now , but will shoot back .