RightWing Conference Tells Activists to Get Their Guns Ready for Bloody Battle with Obama the Nazi

Originally posted by johnny2127
reply to post by Chevalerous

 

This reply doesn't make sense. You posted something I said to you after you had just told me that I was throwing stones at you. This after you have written time after time that I was lying, and idiot, dense, and many other insults. You told me I didn't know what love was and didn't know how to love. You called me corrupted and selfish. How did I twist any of those words? You wrote all of them.

No stop lying! and manipulating the readers with false facts!

If you go back to the posts everyone can read in which order they were to get enough information to determine that you are taking things out of context.

When you posted that reply and highlighted: Independents facts - and then you presented this together with my link with the true definitions about Socialism - and where they are explaining how&why the Right are presenting Hitler as a Leftist Socialist in their false counter Intelligence campaign

Where the right are falsely saying that Hitler was a Socialist and to the Left.

And as every intelligent people know is not true.

By doing so you took my words from a earlier post and connected this to this link and therof making me look out of context with the words:

Independent facts - from a earlier post!

What I said in that text that you used out of context was that the interested reader could search for independents sources and go to the Public Liberies and the German historical intitute if they were interested to verify my words and to find out more about the truth instead of the false propaganda you're spreading here.

You then used these words against me out of context because you wanted the reader to doubt the word from the link - even if I agree with you that the location of that link are not from a FAMOUS place. The true words from that link still stands of course, because it's the truth - and thankfully most people knows this!

So that was your whole purpose of using my words out of context - to make the reader question my words becuse you took those words out of context and combined these word with a questionble link.

I know these tactics all to well my friend!

The source of the link doesn't matter to the reader in this case!

(you yourself posted a link to a right-wing blog - it's that neutral facts you think?)

It's the truth, and most readers knows this - and I thankfully knows this, because of mod applauds, and appreciation from several readers thanking me!

The reason for using his words & link in this case was that English is not my native language and he could express what I wanted people to hear, better than what I compose in English.

So I used his words to make things less complicated trying to explain things.

And I'm very happy to know that I have helped a couple of readers to know the truth! - that is all that's matter to me!

Even if I would only had helped one person to know the truth - I'm truly happy for this - it's enough reward to help one lost human-being to know the truth & to deny ignorance!

I am not the confused & delusional guilty part here!

You came to this thread saying that Hitler was 'Far Far Left' which is a Right-Wing lie - but thankfully, most sane people of this world don't like history revisionists or fabricated propaganda!

Arrivederci!


[edit on 1-10-2009 by Chevalerous]

How is anti-gov considered "right wing"? I thought anti-gov is leftist. Last time I checked, both democrats and neo conservitives wanted more gov power hence they both fall to the right. Where as any pro "small government" or "no government" group like libertarians would be leftist.

reply to post by LordBaskettIV

This is true...anarchists who advocate no government are generally considered left of left.

Originally posted by grover
reply to post by LordBaskettIV

 

This is true...anarchists who advocate no government are generally considered left of left.

It actually depends on the motivation for being anti-govt. If its anarchy for anarchy's sake, then yes its the left. If its small but responsible govt, it on the right. If its anti-govt with the intention of installing a more socialist govt, then its left. You get the idea. Saying anti-govt is too simplistic.

reply to post by Chevalerous


I just have to click ignore on you now Chevalerous. Most people can admit if they are saying insulting things or being hateful, and most either justify it or say 'sorry'. I have apologized to people before on ATS if something I said was taken as mean or hurtful. You really just cannot even look at the things you are saying and see how they are inappropriate and hurtful. I have gone round and round with you, reposting you exact words, and then you still say I took it out of context. You call Christians 'Fundamentalist Bible Morons' but somehow can't see how that is an insult or hurtful. Let me guess, you'll just say thats a FACT as you like to state about all of your opinions. Like I have said to you multiple times - THE INABILITY TO HAVE TOLERANCE OF OTHER PEOPLES' OPINIONS IS A DESTRUCTIVE FLAW.

Amazingly, with all the incredible things said by people on ATS, you are the first person I am clicking ignore on. And its because you are closed-minded, mean and intolerant to those you don't agree with.

Originally posted by johnny2127
It actually depends on the motivation for being anti-govt. If its anarchy for anarchy's sake, then yes its the left. If its small but responsible govt, it on the right. If its anti-govt with the intention of installing a more socialist govt, then its left. You get the idea. Saying anti-govt is too simplistic.

Anarchy for Anarchy's sake? What does that mean?

Anarchism has always traditionally been of the left. Anarchism is a system that is based on mutual understanding, cooperation, and individuals and communities governing themselves. It is NOT chaos, which is what I think you mean 'for Anarchy's' sake'? True Anarchists reject anything that causes one class of people to consider themselves superior to another, which leads to a hierarchy of those in control and those that are submissive. This happens whether the government is left or right.

What right wing Anarchists there are, are not truly Anarchists in the traditional sense. A right wing free market system is what would lead to chaos. Imagine uncontrolled capitalism, it would lead to complete breakdown of society, as it has already done to a point. Many of our problems are caused by the constant struggle to survive in a system that simply is not suited to the majority of people. Anarchism was seriously considered by many, and still is, as a better alternative to a system that allows one class of people to control another through economic slavery. For people to be truly free then they must themselves own the means of their production, not private individuals (which is capitalism).

I suggest you educate yourself a little more...

[edit on 10/1/2009 by ANOK]

reply to post by johnny2127


I have to point this out, you keep talking about your 'opinion'.

We're not talking opinion, we're talking facts.

Opinions are fine, but when they're based on lies and misunderstanding, then why should we respect those opinions?

Only in America will people claim Hitler was a lefty.

Originally posted by ANOK
reply to post by johnny2127

 

I have to point this out, you keep talking about your 'opinion'.

We're not talking opinion, we're talking facts.

Opinions are fine, but when they're based on lies and misunderstanding, then why should we respect those opinions?

Only in America will people claim Hitler was a lefty.

Well keep in mind, when it comes to a political spectrum, that is a theory in and of itself. Any political spectrum you view is constructed based on the views of that political scientist or a group of them. That in and of itself means definitions of left, right and where various ideologies fit are theories. And the further extreme those ideologies get, the more contentious these theories get. When any historian and political scientist will tell you that Nazism has its roots in socialism, and had many marxist philosophies, you can hardly blame any political scientist for placing them towards the furthest left side.

Additionally, the American views of right and left are based on the American political culture. In the American political culture, the right stands for small decentralized govt with their hands our of people's lives. So to the American on the right, any concept of a large powerful govt is left.

When it comes down to it, concept of left and right are far too simplistic when dealing with matters such as totalitarianism, or authoritarianism. Hence why most use either a double axis political spectrum now, or a 3D one.

But lets say you are right for conversations sake; the further extreme of the right is Nazi Totalitarianism, and the furthest extreme of the left is soviet style Communism. Either way, millions died under the brutal rule of an over oppressive govt, and neither are things any of us want. Republicans are not Nazi's and Democrats are not Communists. So lets chill with people's defensiveness and rhetoric.

Originally posted by johnny2127
reply to post by Chevalerous

 

You call Christians 'Fundamentalist Bible Morons' but somehow can't see how that is an insult or hurtful.

OMG! do you get excited of twisting people's words as you do?

Oh man! yet another fabricated lie from the spin-master himself!

I never said that in that way, and that is taken waaay out of context from the poem text I wrote.

I never called all Christians 'Fundamentalist Bible Morons' and everyone can go to that thread where I clearly are exposing this lie from you!

See! yet another lie! don't you ever stop?

Well I leave it up to the reader to judge about your wordtwisting - you are apparently beyond all possible repair!

And what is all this talk about that we don't respect any opnion?

That the National Socialists was Authoritarian Right-Wing Fascists it's not someone's opinion - that is a established fact!

I have come to the conclusion that you are probably very ill and unstable, so I'm leaving up to others to read your lies both here and on the other thread!

I really feel sorry for you on your behalf!

And I am really glad that I spoke out against a history revisionist like yourself who said that Hitler was a Socialist and that National Socialism was to the far far left!


“When the Nazis came for the communists, I remained silent; I was not a communist. When they came for the socialists, I remained silent; I was not a socialist. When they came for the trade unionists, I remained silent; I was not a trade unionist. When they came for the Jews, I remained silent; I was not a Jew. When they came for me, there was no one left to speak out.”




[edit on 1-10-2009 by Chevalerous]

reply to post by Chevalerous


I really don't want to get involved in this since reading from both of you is annoying. But I do feel compelled to chime in for the good of discussion going fwd.

Chevalerous, it may be the english as a second laguage as the reason you don't understand. You are constantly calling johnny2127 names and insulting. He;s just voicing his opinion and you are reacting in a very emotional way. Even if he's twisting your words your responses are exactly what he keeps saying you are doing and then you claim you didn't do it. You are playing right into his hands.

Johnny, you need to let it go. You and Chevalerous will never agree and you're just pushing his buttons now whether you intend to or not. He doesn't seem to be a bad chap but it should be apparent by now he doesn't like you and no matter how much you ask him to calm down, he won't. I have no clue if you are twisting his words, all I know is his most recent responses. But if you have been twisting, stop. Just let it go. You two won't ever see eye to eye.

Originally posted by OldManReilly
reply to post by Chevalerous

 

I really don't want to get involved in this since reading from both of you is annoying. But I do feel compelled to chime in for the good of discussion going fwd.

Chevalerous, it may be the english as a second laguage as the reason you don't understand. You are constantly calling johnny2127 names and insulting. He;s just voicing his opinion and you are reacting in a very emotional way. Even if he's twisting your words your responses are exactly what he keeps saying you are doing and then you claim you didn't do it. You are playing right into his hands.

Johnny, you need to let it go. You and Chevalerous will never agree and you're just pushing his buttons now whether you intend to or not. He doesn't seem to be a bad chap but it should be apparent by now he doesn't like you and no matter how much you ask him to calm down, he won't. I have no clue if you are twisting his words, all I know is his most recent responses. But if you have been twisting, stop. Just let it go. You two won't ever see eye to eye.

LOL, I clicked ignore on that guy earlier today so I have no clue what he wrote. Nor do I want to. I am sure its just more of the same.

I just don't get why people have to start insulting, calling names, and accusing people of things. Somehow he keeps insulting, but in the same post saying he's not doing that and I'm twisting words. Its confusing.

Regardless, I have ignored him so nothing more will be coming from me. Hopefully he doesn't just follow my posts around on the boards ranting and flying off the handle. I won't see it, but it isn't good for the debate and conversation of others on the boards.

reply to post by OldManReilly


I'm sorry for the problems. it's not fun for other people to read all this crap!

And I'm very sorry for saying this, but the guy is insane!

But many thanks for caring!

Cheers!

reply to post by Chevalerous


No problem buddy. Neither of you seem like bad chaps. You just don't agree. You did just call him insane again though which is an insult. LOL. Maybe in the future you should watch the name calling. From reading the small part of the debate, I remember when I was in college they referred to Nazi's as being far right, and the Communists being far left. Both are bad options in my opinion so debating about which side Nazis fall on is stupid. So regardless of which of you is correct, we all lose under both systems

Originally posted by OldManReilly
reply to post by Chevalerous

 

He;s just voicing his opinion and you are reacting in a very emotional way.

No he's not just voicing his opinion - on the first page he took to battle and proclaimed that Hitler was a socialist and that National Socialism was to the far far left!

And I had a Social Democratic relative who they sent to 'Dachau' the concentration camp in München God damn it!

But this guy doesn't get that because of pure ignorance!

Go back to the first page and forward and read for youself his own words!


National Socialism was an Authoritarian Right-Wing Fascist movement and that is not someone's opinion - that is an established fact!

National Socialism is the antithesis of Marxist Socialism & Communism - period!

How hard is that to understand for certain people? - it's not about his opinions!

Heck! as I wrote in this thread, I have now dead relatives that were involved with National Socialism - and I had the opportunity to talk with several of them before they died.

A few other also died for it during the war both in Germany and elsewhere.

They all told their life's history and told me about the political situation in Germany in the 1930's and that the Nazis were 'radical far right' and not any damn Socialists! Heck! some of them even joined the Nazi party - this guy is insulting my dead relatives, and are calling them liars!

My family was split up all over Europe just because of this in the 1930's and some of them were on both sides of the spectrum and therefore against eachother during those hellish years.

One relative who is from our noble family had a warrent issued over him by the Gestapo based on false and fabricated intelligence from a informer who was a rival business competitor with high up connections.

They harrassed everyone with connection to this man and didn't care that this man was innocent and a victim of false accusations of being a traitor - this man was the father of my dad, my grandfather, who was smart & enlightened enough to see the awful future, and moved to Switzerland just in time before all fascist hell broke loose 1934, but still had businesses and a small industry left in Germany.

So his soul corrupted rival competitor and 'sorry excuse of a man' took this opportunity and tried to take over my grandfathers life achievements based on a lie and as a rat informer.

Thankfully from some hellish 'wheeling and dealing' with political officials and lawyers connected higher up with the National Socialists the truth finally emerged and my grandfather could return 1936 to Germany and was able to sell most of the enterprises which were left in disarray and in messy conditions.

So no one who's been living his whole life indictrinated & blindfolded in his fantasy bubble is going to say to me that the history & hardships of my family and what they went through together with millions of other families here in Europe because of right-wing fascism, is a lie!

Well I'm getting tired of this crap! check the thread for yourself if you are interested my friend.


[edit on 2-10-2009 by Chevalerous]

reply to post by OldManReilly


I can see why Chevalerous is getting emotional, it is rather insulting to say Hitler was left wing. It has nothing to do with opinions, but the FACT that Hitler was not left wing. Anybody who thinks he is need to educate themselves, seriously.

It is a scary thought that there are people in the world that are so off the mark when it comes to politics, and they argue against all common sense, and historical records, to support their delusional opinion. And yes it IS delusional. Where does it come from?

How in the world will we ever have a system that works for all of us when there are people who think black is white, and left is right?

Socialism doesn't have to have anything to do with left/right or government/state, yet we have to hear all the time how we are the Nazis and the ones wanting totalitarianism. We want freedom for all through the right of the worker to own their own means of production, so they/we profit from our labours directly, instead of having to hand the product of our labour over to another person who makes money off of us/it, before we get paid the pittance for that labour.

How is that anything like what Hitler wanted, or did, and how is that anything to do with totalitarian government/state?

Just what is Barack Obama..? Barack is a fascist. A fascist seeks a society where there are no class distinction (spread the wealth around, level playing field, social justice, etc). Fascism wants a single party system with a strong central government. The state is first and from there the populace obeys and does what it is told is best for them. Daily life is dictated by the government.

What we see here with the government takeover of business, banks, credit institutions, industry, schools, and soon Healthcare, is a part of the road to the fascist state. At the head of this movement is Barack Obama who wants to... fundamentally change the United States of America.

Now is Barack a Nazi..? Not in the sense we think. He is a moslem and as such he holds that we are all infidels and that his moslem brethren should rule the world. Both hate the Jews, and also Christians. If he holds to the "black liberation theology" doctrine, then yes, barack is a Nazi fascist.

Now, when should a people rise up with arms against it's own government..? According to the dictates of the founding Fathers and the Constitution, when that government has forsaken the will of the governed and has become a government of tyranny and oppression. Are we there yet..? Not yet. Only if they pass the healthcare bill into law, then we are just about there.

First, States will simply ignore the Federal government. When pushed, they will declare succession. Some will band together to form a new government. The Federal will wage war as was done in the 1800's when the South broke away for five years.

The bright spot..? 2010... A lot of democrats I have talked to tell me they are also upset at Obama saying he going too far, even for them. Some say he not acting as they think a real democrat should. They ask me what I think he's doing..? I tell them the truth. He's building a new world order, but only after he weakens the United States enough so they need to join it to survive, and to do that he must bankrupt this great nation.

Obama is an Islamic Fascist. Read "Audacity of Hope".

Fascism is neither left or right wing. Fascism is it's own animal. It is a single party government with a top down approach to society. The society is classless and lives to serve the State. love for the State is first. China and N. Korea are fascist States. In the case of N. Korea, Kin Jung IL is the State. He is worshiped as "The Dear Leader"

The average democrat and republican have more in common than either to the fascist. This is why a lot of people often say there actually the same.

Originally posted by Fromabove
Fascism is neither left or right wing. Fascism is it's own animal. It is a single party government with a top down approach to society. The society is classless and lives to serve the State.

This is an oxymoron.

A society cannot be classless if it lives to serve the state. Just by doing this you have separated the people into two classes: the people and the government.

This is why fascism is not a left wing ideal, true leftists desire a classless society.

I do not like to get into the left vs. right debate, because people feel so strongly about their 'side' and will take the arguments very personally.

However, I will say this: anyone who has studied political science or history knows that fascism is a right-wing concept.

Consider the failing economies of nations leading up to WWII:

Russia reacted to the depression by going radically to the left - communism.

Germany and Italy reacted to the depression by going radically to the right - fascism.

I am not making these points to say one side is better than the other. These are just historical facts. On a left-right scale, fascism is far right.


A side-note for people who consider themselves 'right wing'-

Yes, Hitler was also on the right. Does that make the right terrible? Not necessarily. It is embarrassing, I know. It may even make you want to rewrite history to say that Hitler was on the left. However, that won't accomplish much as most people know better. My advice is to disregard Hitler and just focus on your political ideals while striving to avoid fascism. I mean, Stalin was a leftist, and he did things arguably as bad as Hitler. Yet, you don't see liberals trying to say Stalin was a right-wing nutjob. Both sides of the political spectrum have their bad guys and their good guys. Hitler was the right wing's bad guy. That doesn't mean he is the right wing's poster boy. Just get over it, and move on.

reply to post by ANOK


Hey buddy, I am not even about to get sucked into this drama so don't try. I am not backing either side. If either one wants to be offended thats their own choice. If the extreme of the left is soviet style Communism and the extreme right is Nazi's, no one wins. Both are terrible choices. Either way, johnny2127 needs to let it go and stop trying to convince people of his opinion, and Chevalrous needs to stop calling people names at every turn and be tolerant of other opinions.

This isn't about sides. Johnny2127 isn't a Nazi and Chevalrous isn't a Communist. So lets just drop it. You guys are arguing over nonsense at this point. I won't take sides, but at this point is you guys forcing this issue onward. Drop it.

reply to post by drwizardphd


Look, it isn't a settled fact about where those extreme ideologies lie on the political spectrum. But even if you're right it doesn't matter. The right of America isn't comparable or the root movement of Nazism, and the left of America isn't the same as the Soviet Communism. Nothing is embarrassing when it comes to comparing Nazi's and Communists. Neither have any comparison in American politics. We disagree on the political spectrum but it doesn't matter...... whatever the truth is it isn't comparable to conservatives of liberals in America. So lets all calm down, stop trying to 'win' because there isn't a winner when it comes to matters such as these.