I personally argue that all totalitarian and authoritarian regimes regardless of what they call themselves are hard right by nature because despite rhetoric to the contrary true liberalism is the antithesis of such doctrines. Also liberals are almost always among the first groups such regimes come down on.

Originally posted by grover

Originally posted by johnny2127
First of all, Hitler was far far left, not right.
[edit on 29-9-2009 by johnny2127]

That is a common mispreception but not true. Hitler and the Nazi party despite the socialist in their name were hyper right wing and were vehemently against both the real socialists and communists in both Germany and the countries they invaded.

Not true. In no way am I comparing the Nazi version of extreme liberalism to liberals in America. But if you examine the platform of Hitler's socialist party and what he was campaigning on, it was a flat or far left socialist agenda. The only thing that I could think of that was right or far right was the extreme nationalist aspect to the party.

The Nazi party stressed the failure of capitalism and Russian style Communism. Their view was that govt needed to have a large hand in controlling private companies.

It's like when people complain how the moderate Muslims are silent and the violent fundamentalists get all of the bad press. We know that the sane, devout Muslims outnumber the crazies, but they're afraid to speak out and their voices get drowned out. As a result, ALL Muslims get tarred with the same brush.

It's the same with the Republicans. Intelligent and rational conservative voices are being drowned out by the crazies. The smart ones know that Obama isn't a Secret-Muslim-Communist-Nazi-Anti-Christ, and probably have proposed rational alternatives to Obama's legislative plans, but you wouldn't know it by watching t.v. or reading the papers.

Once in a while, someone like Peggy Noonan will make an unguarded remark off-mic and let her true feelings show, but when further pressed, will keep her mouth shut and fall in line with the herd.

I'll give a pass to William F. Buckley, since he's DEAD. George Will, David Brooks? Meh. Ron Paul? He's gaining traction, but he doesn't have the charisma or "star power" of someone like Sarah Palin. If only he was a 40 year old MILF and wore red stilettos!


Consequently, Rush Limbaugh declares himself the leader of the Republican party, and no one says a peep. If I were a Republican, I'd be ashamed that such a drug-addled buffoon would claim to speak on my behalf.

THINK FOR YOURSELF. Don't act like gullible sheep. Get your information from reputable news outlets and not trash like the New York Post. Turn off the t.v. Mainstream media is all propaganda in some form or fashion. Question people's motives. Follow the money. Ask yourself whether the people on in the media who are telling you to do this and that, whether they are willing to back up their own rhetoric with action. If not, ask yourself WHY.

Originally posted by Kaploink

Originally posted by lpowell0627
I am so sick and tired of hearing about evil republicans, conservative nutjobs, right-wing extremists, etc.

The labels would go away if the more extreme part of the Republican party would tone it down a bit. When they are running around with questionable signs, screaming at town meetings about evil socialism, and making statements about armed revolutions, people are going to think they are nuts. They appear to mainstream America just like the guy who screams at everyone on the street corner that they are going to hell.

[edit on 29-9-2009 by diabolique]

[edit on 29-9-2009 by diabolique]

Originally posted by johnny2127

Originally posted by grover

Originally posted by johnny2127
First of all, Hitler was far far left, not right.
[edit on 29-9-2009 by johnny2127]

That is a common mispreception but not true. Hitler and the Nazi party despite the socialist in their name were hyper right wing and were vehemently against both the real socialists and communists in both Germany and the countries they invaded.

Not true. In no way am I comparing the Nazi version of extreme liberalism to liberals in America. But if you examine the platform of Hitler's socialist party and what he was campaigning on, it was a flat or far left socialist agenda. The only thing that I could think of that was right or far right was the extreme nationalist aspect to the party.

The Nazi party stressed the failure of capitalism and Russian style Communism. Their view was that govt needed to have a large hand in controlling private companies.

OK! I am going to take this slow if someone is dense?!

What you don't understand is that FASCISM has several socio-economic traits in common with what you Americans call Socialism - But that is how European Fascism is constructed with corporatism and socioeconomics.

And from an American point of view if you are only analyzing the economical part on the economic scale it may seem and look that way, but it's not true!

But a political compass and the political spectrum doesn't work that way!

You have to count in the total of both TWO axles to get a result. (don't you guys learn how to read these things in school nowadays?)

Let me explain:

You have two axles:

- one: Authoritarian and Libertarian - that's the social scale.

- two: Left and right - that's the economic scale.

Hitler and National Socialism were in top of the Authoritarian scale and slightly right of the center on the economic scale, but since they were so high up on the Authoritarian social scale on the right side of the center - the result is called the far-right.

When you look at these scales you can not just look at the economic scale and disregard the rest, because the result would be flawed - what you do is that you count all this together in a total to get a result!

That's why the Intellectuals are calling National Socialism far-right!

How hard can that be? - can't you read diagrams?

This lady is German who probably survived WWII to tell you how it was in Germany.

I cant figure how a German becomes a right wing Republican extremist just because she is calling it like she sees it. You Liberals will twist anything to your favor to save your Anti-Christ wont you?

Just like the socialist-communist who put Hitler in power.

If you read your history, it was the BANKERS and CORPORATIONS like IBM who helped Hitler rise to power, and maintain it. Hitler persecuted Communists.

Originally posted by Sky watcher
This lady is German who probably survived WWII to tell you how it was in Germany.

I cant figure how a German becomes a right wing Republican extremist just because she is calling it like she sees it. You Liberals will twist anything to your favor to save your Anti-Christ wont you?

Just like the socialist-communist who put Hitler in power.

I don't applaud calling you dense...he could have easily been talking about both of us...since I have been known to be pretty dense at times...

I was applauding what he was saying about the political spectrum.

I'm going to make this real easy for you to understand why you have been brainwashed into believing this in America.

The reason is that the Right in America didn't want to be associated with Hitler and National Socialism so they invented a flawed phoney way to describe these things for you! only for the reason to be able to manipulate you!







And here we can see exactly how the Americans did to make it look as Hitler was to the left.

If you tilt this spectrum like this it looks like Hitler and National Socialism is to the left, but if you read the axles and where the 0 is on the economic scale you see that you can not do like this and tilt the picture because the result would be flawed with the axles if you did this.

The guy I'm arguing with here linked a square like this to get hitler on the left, that has been tilted and is without the axles and the 0 - but then they show it to you as a square again! - this is how they have been lying & manipulated the people for political reasons!





[edit on 29-9-2009 by Chevalerous]

I really don't rely on charts or established political spectrum's.

I am not interested in all of that.

What I mean when I say that authoritarian and total totalitarian regimes are far right is this...when an ideology...no matter what its ideal, left or right is gains power it automatically begins consolidating that power into a hold fast...or a rigid aspiring permanent hold of power and the longer it stays in power the more conservative it becomes...

Can anyone seriously argue for example that the Soviet Union under Stalin was liberal?

Of course not and the longer that system held onto power the more conservative and repressive it became until it ended up the very type of authoritarian system it despised under the Czars.

This is what I mean.

Originally posted by grover
If these people...like the once calling Obama a n----- are not racists like they try to insist...then why use the n word at all? And if her listeners are not racist themselves why tolerate it.

I always make a point of objecting when I hear someone else use it.

You can listen to someone use those type of words, not be racist and not object.

Obama did it for 20 years and you seem not to have any problems what so ever with him.

Originally posted by johnny2127
Look, if anything this has shown that a political spectrum is not concrete. You posted political spectrum putting Hitler on the right, and I have shown you ones putting him on the left.

Actually both of you are correct. The chart is flawed because it is drawn in a 2-dimensional axis. The chart is actually 3-dimensional, which is hard to wrap one's brain around.

If you chart on the far-extreme to the right, you actually end up on the extreme-left. The inverse is also true. Hitler was extreme left and right at the same time.

The political spectrum is oversimplified.