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EU: Why vote "NAY"? - Seven Deadly Lisbon Treaty Clauses

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posted on Oct, 2 2009 @ 01:35 PM
reply to post by alienesque

At least she's better than Sarkozy and Brown, although I do think the Czech and Polish leaders are the best at the moment. They are waiting for Ireland to decide on the Lisbon Treaty. Germany didn't even get to vote. But still, considering all factors, I think I would prefer to go back and live in Germany.

Of course one can always have wishful thinking that some leaders are better than others. I lost that wishful thinking in Taiwan, where I live now, as all leaders seem to lean towards China in a less or more extreme way, depending on the party, but still hopeful of at least an economic partnership with China, if not political. I don't stand for any partnership with a country that shows off its missiles that it could someday blow our way.

Nevertheless, I still think Merkel is my favorite Illuminati leader (if you have to choose one), despite what the Germans say, even though she won a second round as Bundeskanzler. I guess it's better the devil you know, than the devil you don't know.

I still like her for keeping up the close trade relations with Russia though. What's the point of bringing Russia relations to Cold War level?

I definitely think she should be acknowledged for her politics even if she still has downsides in certain areas. Better than some other useless leaders in the EU...can't believe Tony Blair could become the President of the EU mom used to fancy him when he was younger, but he's still a twat.

posted on Oct, 2 2009 @ 03:08 PM
I'm afraid their brains may have been rotten by the ruling elite by this point. I mean there's the poor economy, high unemployment rate and so on. This is an excellent reason for Ireland to finally vote YES. It's like a punishment to Ireland for voting NO last year.

There are so many reasons for voting NO, BUT

the following are comments from the YES people on anoter website where I posted this post. Some are insulting, but ENJOY!

Seriously, where the f**k did this 'If the Lisbon Treaty comes through, Tony Blair will be the President of the EU' thing come from?

I certainly hope there will be eventually one big global union.

Oh enlightened one where do you get such wisdom that Tony Blair becomes the president of the EU from? Nobody else knows that.

You're a f***ing idiot. If you don't understand it, either educate yourself or shut up about it.

It should never have been laid out to the public in the first place!

Basically no one in Ireland has any clue what the treaty is about.

Nation States are unnatural. We live in a Globalised world where their influences are diminishing all the time.

There's no way the entire global community can make a fist against this if everyone is so small-minded, and nationalistic.

The EU treaty is there to give MORE power to the people. Right now the EU doesn't even have democratically elected leaders! That's what the treaty was for and people voted AGAINST it. They voted AGAINST their right to vote.

Some people want to be loved so desperately they imagine themselves to be a part of this 'national community' that they were born into by fluke and if anyone tried to take that away from them then they will get jolly cross.

The global population is simply too big, it comes with problems of a scale that individual countries can't deal with any longer. Besides, the world is converging at an incredibly rapid rate.

A global parliament WILL eventually happen and that's only a good thing as that means that every citizen will have say about what happens to the same planet we all live on.

I am against the concept of referendums in general as well. It's taking the power out of the hands of the people that have been democratically chosen.

In that sense referendums are anti-democratic and that's exactly what happened this time.

And I seriously don't understand what the f**k is wrong with the Irish, they're one of the countries that benefit the most from being a member of the EU.

For all I care they can f**k off and fall back into being a third world country like they used to be. Bunch of ignorant nationalistic cu*ts.

The Lisbon treaty is the best thing EU has made in ages. It would work to easen the byrocracy and possible corruption alot.

Ireland voting no is the prime example of the bad side of democracy - people who haven't read the treaty or haven't even read the summary of the treaty vote on it. Gullible people won over by nationalist propaganda that EU is evil.

If Ireland vote no, then throw them out of the EU and see how long it takes for them to come crawling back.

I don't have any problems about world slowly coming together. Nations are a dumb thing. Masses of land surrounded by imaginary lines. How EU has removed the barriers between countries is amazing - I should be able to travel from country to country as I like!

EU treaties go over national laws, because that is the only way EU can make any unifying decisions. Most laws EU pass are passed in such form that nations can implement them how they wish though. Since nations are there making the laws and then implementing them in their own society, there is no problem.

Jeez it really takes some mental acrobatics to arrive to those solutions. You're just a paranoid right-wing anarchist. This treaty is required to let the EU converge efficiently, it will become far more democratic than what is right now, it's just a stuck machine that can't function properly without the treaty.

The world is simply growing to complex for certain people. They have no idea what's going on and it frightens the bejebus out of them. They'll have to resort to conspiracy theories to put a simplified strawman up to be angry about and rile against. It's a desperate act out of fear.

Right now Ireland is being a huge pain in the ass for the EU. It tries to become a democracy but it can't as long as people keep voting against the treaty (which includes an overhaul in how the parliament gets elected in a more democratic fashion). It's simply blocking all progress. So it's either leave the train or stop blocking it's path.

posted on Oct, 3 2009 @ 10:25 PM

This an absolute nightmare.


Braindead some yeah, others really buy and like this whole Empire of Europe idea, from the ones ive debated at any rate.

i would fight to the bitter end agaisnt this...

[edit on 3-10-2009 by end of]

posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 01:36 PM
reply to post by end of

Hey, thanks for that interesting video. I went to Youtube to find more videos on the same subject and found myself in the middle of a list of UKIP videos. Great stuff!

I just started a new thread based on a new video I found of the EU MEPs actually walking out on the President of the Czech Republic during his speech.

Check it out here

[edit on 4-10-2009 by MightyAl]

posted on Oct, 4 2009 @ 02:22 PM
Wikileaks recently posted a .pdf entitled What ambitions for European defence in 2020, Jul 2009

A couple of quotes from that .pdf:

Ecological protection – the global policing and enforcement of ecological norms. As the global ecological crisis grows its impact will become ever more acute, raising ecological security to the top of our political agenda. This will multiply the intensity and scale of our efforts to protect the environment both at home but especially globally. This will require a host of global policing and enforcement capabilities, including in the worst case scenario robust power projection.

Barrier operations – shielding the global rich from the tensions and problems of the poor. As the ratio of the world population living in misery and frustration will remain massive, the tensions and spillover between their world and that of the rich will continue to grow. As we are unlikely to have solved this problem at its root by 2020 – i.e. by curing dysfunctional societies – we will need to strengthen our barriers. It is a morally distasteful, losing strategy, but will be unavoidable if we cannot solve the problems at their root. It could be further reinforced if we reduce our global engagement to solve the problems at source

Social engineering – stabilisation for conflict resolution and state building operations. This addresses the core of the global social problem but the lessons of our last decade’s efforts indicate that the difficulty vastly exceeds our capabilities. Both the UN Millennium Goals and our state-building efforts are floundering, at the same time as our will is slackening and resources are becoming overstretched. Hence the priority of this mission may well have been downgraded by 2020.

It looks like the EU is...well, ambitious!

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