America has to be the most powerful nation in the world!

reply to post by SLAYER69


Mainly the bit where you claimed the US was the innovator in many fields of technology. You do know what innovator means, don't you?

I disupted this because it can be demonstrated that in "many fields of technology", the US was not the innovator, but merely developed the idea further.

Originally posted by stumason
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Mainly the bit where you claimed the US was the innovator in many fields of technology. You do know what innovator means, don't you?

I disupted this because it can be demonstrated that in "many fields of technology", the US was not the innovator, but merely developed the idea further.

Forget it...


Right...

Americans were never innovators in anything

Gotcha

[edit on 30-9-2009 by SLAYER69]

reply to post by useless eaters


In 1000 years I can absolutely guarantee you that if someone mentions the USA the next person will ask "Whats this USA you speak of?"

All great powers fall eventually, they annihilate themselves from within, which is exactly what is happening to America as we speak.

[edit on 30/9/2009 by Kryties]

reply to post by SLAYER69


I didn't say they weren't, but many of the US's achievements of the 20th century were built on the back of others discoveries, like the Apollo programme (Nazi's), or the Manhattan project (British and Canadian scientists did most of the groundwork, the US was the only place with the resources to actually build the bombs at the time), electronic computing (the UK led the world in computing during WW2), plus there are plenty of "technology transfers" that the UK was more or less forced to do in the 50's and 60's which gave alot of technology awya for nothing.. I could go on, but I think I've made my point.

Again, you seem to be confusing the word innovating with developing.

reply to post by stumason


hhhmmm...maybe I am ignorant, but wasnt it the German scientist Albert Einstein that developed E=MC (squared)?

Definitely not British or Canadian...

BTW, I believe ole Albert became a U.S. citizen later in life...

reply to post by open_eyeballs


E=MC2 does not = Nuclear bombs, for crying out loud. Thats a gross over-simplification...

Pioneering work on the Atom bomb was done by John Chadwick, Ernest Rutherford, Ernest Walton and the groundwork was done in the Tube Alloys project, a British/Canadian venture. All their work was then handed over to the US when the Manhattan Project started...

reply to post by stumason


Not sure when I said E=MC(squared) equals an atom bomb...?

Im not queastioning who lead the research on the atom bomb, just your assertion that the majority were british and canadian. From what i understand there were thousands of scientists involved.

The research was conducted in the U.S...seems like a big leap to believe most of the researchers were foreign..again, maybe im ignorant...

reply to post by open_eyeballs


Again, ignoring what I said. I said the Atom Bomb was initially a Anglo/Canadian effort, subsumed into the US project. You then claimed that a German scientist ceme up with E=MC2 and later becmae American, so that meant it was a US development. It is there in black and white what you said.

The Manhattan project was only possible due to the work in the Anglo-Canadian Tub Alloys project. Go read about it. It was put into American hands in exchange for money/weapons and it's strategic position (ie: Away from Nazi bombers). The Atomb bomb was later, after the war, denied to the UK, despite us handing over all outr work and making yours possible. Typical American backstabbing that occured ALOT during WW2.

The Manhattan project wasn't about the "how will it work", but rather how to go about getting the materials to build it. The theory work had been done already. Even before the Tube Alloys project, there was a French project that came to the UK after the Nazi invasion.

Seriously, go and read about it and educate yourself.

Here, I'll save you the obviously monumental effort required to type "Tube Alloys" into google....

EDIT: And you get two stars for posting ill-informed drivel. Typical.


[edit on 30/9/09 by stumason]

reply to post by stumason


Your taking my words out of context and simply imposing your own meaning...What I said is clear and in plain black and white...

Like I said, it is a big leap to assume your correct about the numbers (majority) of researchers being from the foreign countries you speak of. You can twist that statement to however you like...

About "American backstabbing"...I would take up the backstabbing effort with the British union of fascists if I were you...you may be still a nazi breeding ground if it werent for that generation of americans...deny it all you wish...

EDIT: And you get two stars for posting ill-informed drivel. Typical.

..i find it hilarious this bothers you...an indication of your arrogance...just pointing it out...dont hate on the messenger...I do appreciate your input at times...

edit to clarify

[edit on 30-9-2009 by open_eyeballs]

reply to post by stumason


Why is so hard for you to understand? He didn't say every innovation. He said many. It's not like he is a typical American ATS chestpounder trying to make some off the wall exaggerated claims.

You seem not to want to give any credit.




[edit on 30-9-2009 by The-Hammer]

reply to post by stumason

As much as you would like to toe hold this discussion to the A-bomb and Von Braun. That's not all there is to American innovation. But since you brought them up.

When I said many I didn't mean all, or most. Why do you feel the need to make this a point? Do you have an Agenda? Although you brought up two very good examples of innovations, they are tired old arguments. I'd hardly call them proof.

Although Von Braun and his band of merry men were major contributors to the US Space program. He was not the father of American rocketry. Robert Goddard anybody? Also you seem to as do many others when discussing this very topic either fail to realize or simply choose to overlook the very real facts that the US space program wasn't just about rocketry. There were plenty of Innovations that needed to be made in order to apply Von Braun's and his team's innovative ideas.

Innovations in Metallurgy, Electronics, Guidance systems, Materials and Computing etc. These were new fields of science and research that required a totally new approach to bring them online. Innovation.

Launching a man into orbit is one thing. But keeping him there alive and being able to continue on his journey to the moon, land and then return had very little to do with Von Braun. Other Innovations? What about the U2, SR-71 and Nuclear powered Navy? I'd say they were pretty good innovations dont you think?

Same goes for the Manhattan project. Great foreign innovation to get the ball rolling I agree, but again the innovative nuts and bolts so to speak to bring it to reality always seems to be overlooked. Did all the needed hardware just fall out of the sky? Remember nobody had ever created one before.

As far as American innovations go, again simply pointing out two examples doesn't make your case. Sorry. There have been tens of thousands of innovations that the US has contributed to the world over the past 100+ years. I know most if not all of those Innovations never got headlines.

[They're not all A-bombs and Rockets]

Have we forgotten Henry Fords assembly line production? That was the simplest type of Innovation. Not to mention all the other fields like Engineering, Mass production, Business, Commerce, Medicine and Medical equipment etc. The Private sector is were you'll probably the best examples of US innovations.


Remember I never said all or the most innovations but many.

Top 15 International Patent Filings by Country (2005)

1. United States (46,115 international patent filings)
2. Japan (24,829)
3. Germany (16,002)
4. France (5,736)
5. United Kingdom (5,103)
6. South Korea (4,686)
7. Netherlands (4,530)
8. Switzerland (3,264)
9. Sweden (2,858)
10. China (2,501)
11. Italy (2,351)
12. Canada (2,322)
13. Australia (1,999)
14. Finland (1,890)
15. Israel (1,456)


Read more: internationaltrade.suite101.com...

Source

Economy Statistics > Innovation (most recent) by country
VIEW DATA: Totals
Definition Source Printable version
Bar Graph Map Correlations

Showing latest available data.
Rank Countries Amount
# 1 United States: 30.3
# 2 Finland: 29.1
# 3 Germany: 27.2
# 4 United Kingdom: 27
= 5 Australia: 26.9
= 5 Netherlands: 26.9
= 5 Sweden: 26.9
= 5 Switzerland: 26.9
# 9 France: 26.8
= 10 Canada: 26.5
= 10 Israel: 26.5
# 12 Japan: 26.4
= 13 Belgium: 25.4
= 13 Ireland: 25.4
= 15 Austria: 25.3
= 15 Norway: 25.3
# 17 Denmark: 25.2
# 18 Iceland: 24.8
# 19 Spain: 23.4
# 20 Italy: 23.3

Innovation

The term innovation refers to a new way of doing something. It may refer to incremental and emergent or radical and revolutionary changes in thinking, products, processes, or organizations. Following Schumpeter (1934), contributors to the scholarly literature on innovation typically distinguish between invention, an idea made manifest, and innovation, ideas applied successfully in practice. In many fields, something new must be substantially different to be innovative, not an insignificant change, e.g., in the arts, economics, business and government policy.

In economics the change must increase value, customer value, or producer value. The goal of innovation is positive change, to make someone or something better. Innovation leading to increased productivity is the fundamental source of increasing wealth in an economy. Innovation is an important topic in the study of economics, business, design, technology, sociology, and engineering.

[edit on 30-9-2009 by SLAYER69]

Originally posted by open_eyeballs
Your taking my words out of context and simply imposing your own meaning...What I said is clear and in plain black and white...

Like I said, it is a big leap to assume your correct about the numbers (majority) of researchers being from the foreign countries you speak of. You can twist that statement to however you like...

I'm not the one misunderstanding.

The Tube Alloys project and all the theory that went into it was a solely Anglo/Canadian venture. This was several years before the Manhattan Project started and made that very project possible.

We handed over massive amounts of technology, including Radar, Atom Bomb research, Jet technology etc during what is known as the Tizard Mission.

This is what I am on about, I'm not talking about the damned Manhattan Project, which did employ thousands and was focussed primarily on how to produce materials for a Bomb that were identified in the work done by the Tube Alloys project, without which, there would have been no Manhattan project whatsoever.

It really isn't that difficult to understand, is it?

As for the backstabbing, I could provide you with a list of things the USA did that shafted the UK, both during and after the War. You guys were always looking at what you could get out of it and would not share, even though the UK shared everything as we saw you as Allies and friends.

It took a massive (and I mean massive) effort on behalf of the UK secret service to get your Congress persons and other influentials away from the side of Germany and onto our side (look up , so don't give me all that "We saved your ass" crap, as you only did it to make money, not as some grandiose effort to fight tyranny.

Then after the war, we got told to go stuff it when we asked if you'd share the work that we'd given you (in good faith and as friends and allies) to develop. Not to mention the high interest loans we only paid off a couple of years ago and the demands we dismantle the Empire so the US could gain hegemony over the world. All in the US national interest....

Oh yes, you did all of that. Something that isn't covered in High School history, I'm sure.

And yes, I moan about the stars you get as you're quite clearly misinformed about your own history and thus, misinforming others. I thought the motto of this site was "Deny Ignorance", but it seems lately that many here wish to promote it instead and actually applaud it.

Originally posted by stumason
As for the backstabbing, I could provide you with a list of things the USA did that shafted the UK, both during and after the War. You guys were always looking at what you could get out of it and would not share, even though the UK shared everything as we saw you as Allies and friends.

We could come up with a much larger list of what the Japanese have done over the past 30 years and now the Chinese.

It's all good.

All's fair in love and war.

reply to post by DataWraith

Tell you what why don't you just call it Planet America instead of Planet EARTH then?

I actually lol on that one. Great!

Um, 2nd line.

reply to post by stumason

Hmm, I can think of quite a few bits of "your" technology that were half-inched or otherwise arm-twisted out of close allies, let alone off your enemies. It's a bit of stretch to paint yourselves as a nation of innovators, when history shows that, generally speaking, the USA takes a pre-existing idea, throws billions of dollars at it and slaps a "Made in USA" sticker on the side, then tells it's citizens "Look what we did!"...

Name me one country who wouldn't do the same if they had had the same resources.

Oh yeah. Like the light bulb, the telephone, the computer and it's major components, the video camera, the transistor, the atomic bomb, the laser bomb, the gps bomb, on and on, and on.

One reason a lot of inventors with funny names are American, is that they were anxious to get out of the ****hole country they came from.

In fact, just about all of us came from ****hole countries.

Funny, that.

reply to post by Kryties


On that note, the same will be said for nearly all of the other countries on the planet right now.

Difference is - ....we've made an impact on many other nations. Whether you like it or not.

Rome fell, as will the USA. But the true test is who leaves a mark.

Good point, nonetheless - considering steel is rusted and dissolves into nothing at about 1000 years.

What will 3rd world countries leave behind? ....lol.

reply to post by stumason

Stumason. You handed over massive amounts of technology to the US? Just because we were friends? I don't think so.

Of course I don't get my history from just one history book, and I've studied enough over the years to know a blowhard when I hear one. Do you think that the bleak situation in Britain in 1940-41 had anything to do with this generous sharing that Britain did?

Could it be that the masses of warships, war materials, fuel, coal, grain, and other basics we provided Britain were just our way of wedging ourselves into British business?

Or could it be that your people were hungry, had few weapons after leaving them at Dunkirk, and needed the help?

At the time, according to all secular history books I can find, thanks to German submarines, you were having distinct trouble feeding yourselves, keeping yourselves warm, and were so lacking in weaponry against the possible German invasion, that you ran ads in American newspapers, begging for any weapon - rifles, shotguns, or pistols, in any caliber - to be donated by the American people for your self defense.

(Screwy, but right after the war, you disarmed your population again, didn't you?)

Your navy was stretched to the breaking point, the Battle of Britain cost you a net 25% of your air force, you started the war with $4,500,000,000, and in months, you were out of money to buy things.

The US engages in the lend/lease, you received $7,000,000 within two weeks, and $50,000,000 during the war. Our navy was escorting the lend/lease convoys to Britain.

So yeah, the Americans were the self-serving bastards in the war, and it was all so one-sided. We Americans TOOK - and Britain only GAVE.

KMA!

As far as the bomb, Fermi, Hahn & Strassman, Meitner (Jew) and Traube (Jew) came up with the science.

It's one thing to have an idea, or the theoretical data to describe a potential technology. It's quite another to have the ability to assemble a team that can actually produce said technology.

Ideas don't pick much cotton.

No. We didn't want to get into another war. We had just gotten back from a European war. The Second World War would never have been necessary if Daladier and Chamberlain hadn't greased up and bent over for Hitler numerous times - and instead kicked his ass while he was still weak in the early days.

By not fighting when the fighting should have been done - hell - we weren't sure you were serious or not.

We wanted to stay neutral, but in order to justify sending this mass of material, we secured some 99-year leases on seven British bases.

Oh yeah. We really stuck it to you.

And for your information, Professor, the US had nothing to do with you losing India, Pakistan, Egypt, Malaysia, Singapore, Bhutan, Burma, South Africa, Rhodesia, Tanzania, Uganda, Zambia, Rwanda, Nigeria, Kenya, Sudan, Barbados, Guyana, Trinidad, Antiqua, Bahamas,
Canada, New Foundland, Palestine, Arabia, Iraq, Cyprus, Belize, Turks, Nepal, and several others.

For the First World War, you borrowed a lot of money, as did most participants, and in fact, no one escaped unscathed.

You borrowed. No one made you borrow, and you could have borrowed from anyone you wanted, and if the rates were excessive as you claim, then you could have said, "NO THANK YOU, WE'RE DOING SO WELL ON OUR OWN."

You went into debt, as did France, Russia, Germany, on and on.

Your colonies? India made it's deal to fight with you in exchange for independence. The others were also given deals to help you survive the Second World War, or you had nationalism in some of these nations, or they were too expensive to maintain.

Take your pick.

You had it, you lost it. So let's all have a pity party.

But for you to make up such a blatant, outright lie, as to suggest the US caused you to lose your empire, that's just stupid, and for that reason alone, I won't be giving your posts much weight in the future.

Outright lie.

By the way.

You guys going to buy any F-35's?

You know, the ones we stole from you?

Originally posted by dooper
In fact, just about all of us came from ****hole countries.

Funny, that.

Good morning colleague!

Whatz your Pedigree? - what kind of warrior breed are ya?

Best regards!

Patriotism or Arrogance?? im sure many people have their opinions on this matter. I think this post veers towards the latter!!