"Free Polanski" = Liberals gone crazy

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posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by Lillydale
I am not part of a team, duo, group, or anything else. I am sorry that you are in such shock that more than one person does not agree with you.


I'm not in shock, lots of people dont agree with me. And you have each consistently had ONE star each, for many pages back. It looks like an obvious tag team effort to me. And in your U2U you said you dont agree with alot of the disgusting things PT has stated and made that clear on the board, i haven't seen those posts, im sure you remember where they are, can you please direct me and prove me wrong?



Just out of curiosity, are you just as furious with all the men that starred with Tracy?


If she FORGED documentation that she was over 18, then no. They were at their job, and if they made every effort to verify she was of age beforehand, and she provided that documentation, then i don't see how they can be held responsible for that. That's COMPLETELY different than drugging and raping a girl who is pleading with you to stop.


Funny and yet no examples of all this stuff that I missed? I guess none of it was all that important then.


Well, off hand, the partisan crap you tried to pin on me, asking me if i thought the republicans were not sickos, when i made it clear i dont buy into that BS...i can provide that example if you wish, i know there was something else, but i really dont feel like trodding back through this thread at the moment, im a bit busy but will later...


Unfortunately you have no choice but to recognize international laws as well as statute of limitations restrictions.


International law means squat, the girl was raped in california. What is the statute of limitation restriction you're referring to, if it exists, how could he have been arrested AT ALL?


This will cost me and you money and will do little to punish him and nothing to deter anyone and will make her and her CHILDREN suffer so why are we so eager to get all that under way again?


I am eager because i hope they throw the book at him, and put him away for the rest of his life. How would that be doing little to punish him? I feel it's VERY important for other child rapists to know that no amount of time on the run will make them home free.




posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 04:37 PM
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Originally posted by Lillydale

Originally posted by Aeons
You make me sad. I really work hard at bringing down complicated political theory into the realm that a larger section of people can grasp.

I apparently am going to have too see if I can turn the concept of Justice in a democratic society with human rights and societal equality into a microwave burrito for you.


Are you really talking down to me? You have been asked the same question how many times now? All we are getting back is insults? Impressive, really.


You actually completely do not understand the entire basis of modern democratic governance or justice. Even my very easy to grasp points to show it to you bounce off.

I'm not talking down to you. You are my audience. How does one explain modern post-enlightenment democratic governance, and non-moral based Human Rights to someone who so clearly has not even the faintest clue?

You actually want to encourage a system that allows the rich to pay their way out of justice. You actually don't see where that sort of precedence leads. Even though THOUSANDS of years of human existence shows you exactly where it goes over and over.

How to scale that wall? The wall of ignorance of human tragedy as a societal phenomena. The wall of complete disconnect from modern political values that grew out of shucking off the tyranny you want to embrace?

Its a dilemma. And since you obviously respond to the simple demographic idea shaping of the media and celebrity types, yes the "microwave burrito" is appropriate.



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 04:47 PM
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And let's not forget Jack Nicolson whom supported Polanski through his conviction for statutory rape, a crime which took place on the Nicholson estate on Mulholland Drive.

I wonder what Jack has to say on the current situation as I've not read any comments quoting his feelings?

IMHO there's no justification for freeing Polanski as he not only raped a minor, he plied here with alcohol and drugs first, and ignored her pleas of refusal.

Lock him up and throw away the key!



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 04:53 PM
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Originally posted by 27jd

Originally posted by Lillydale
I am not part of a team, duo, group, or anything else. I am sorry that you are in such shock that more than one person does not agree with you.


I'm not in shock, lots of people dont agree with me. And you have each consistently had ONE star each, for many pages back. It looks like an obvious tag team effort to me. And in your U2U you said you dont agree with alot of the disgusting things PT has stated and made that clear on the board, i haven't seen those posts, im sure you remember where they are, can you please direct me and prove me wrong?


LOL and even more lies. Ok, I thought you were at least going to attempt to be on the level. That is not what I said and you know it. I said that I do not agree 100% with everything that PT had said. Big difference but I see how it works now. You think that lies work in a place where people can read. Of course then again, isn't revealing info about a private U2U in a thread against the TOS, even if you get it wrong?



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by Aeons
Are you really talking down to me? You have been asked the same question how many times now? All we are getting back is insults? Impressive, really.


You actually completely do not understand...

First of all, your grammar makes my head hurt and second of all, just answer the question or please stop addressing me. I only want to read one thing from you and that is the answer to the question you have been asked several times now. Insults and deflection work great over and over and over and over. I still just want an answer. No more rambling. As soon as I see the rambling and not the answer, I stop reading. Save yourself the trouble and try explaining English or the truth to your friend, whichever impairment he suffers from.



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 05:01 PM
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reply to post by Lillydale
 



You read and agree with Proto and you think *I* am rambling?



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 05:04 PM
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Originally posted by Aeons
reply to post by Lillydale
 



You read and agree with Proto and you think *I* am rambling?


Which part did I specifically state that I agreed with? That will really help you in understanding what has actually been said. Oh, that is right, you still did not answer that other question yet. That is two to you now. Why no answer still?



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by Lillydale

Originally posted by pavil
Also, please reread my posts, I have only claimed it to be Left Leaning members of Hollywood, not "THE LEFT" in general as you state.


OK, fair enough. Others have said that but you were this specific. Then you went and kept typing though.

Don't paint me with a broad brush, when that isn't the case. When people do that, it clouds the debate further.

Thank You.


What size brush are you using on left-leaning hollywood? Do you have any idea how many people are actually in Hollywood and left leaning compared to this list? Where do you get brushes that broad?



I get them from people's own mouths, when they speak up in support of a self confessed person who violated a 13 year old girl. It's not like I am making up their support of Polanski in this matter.

Please, please read before you post. Notice I said members, which does not imply all, left leaning people in Hollywood. Perhaps I should have said some members to clarify it even further.


BTW, you still haven't shown me one conservative Hollywood type person supporting Polanski....



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 05:10 PM
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Originally posted by 27jd
International law means squat, the girl was raped in california. What is the statute of limitation restriction you're referring to, if it exists, how could he have been arrested AT ALL?


I was trying to avoid this trap but I could not let these gems just go. International law means a great deal when you are seeking extradition. You do know he was not in the U.S. when he was picked up correct? Which statute of limitations could I be referring to? How many crimes are we discussing here?



I am eager because i hope they throw the book at him, and put him away for the rest of his life. How would that be doing little to punish him?


Because he is in his 70s after living a long happy successful life. How long do you suppose he will actually suffer in prison for? Remember what he will be in there for.

I feel it's VERY important for other child rapists to know that no amount of time on the run will make them home free.

Do you really think that if he were to be let go that some other person somewhere would think, hey I can drug and rape a 13 year old girl and all I have to do is flee the country for 3 decades? Do you think him going to prison is going to do anything to enlighten any would be criminals? Do you think all the sex offenders in prison now were not effective but he is somehow the messiah that will convert them all by showing you can still be punished if you run?

People already think they can commit crime and flee the country and it is usually murder. I defy you to prove to me that his arrest would do anything more than make the victim suffer more.



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 05:12 PM
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I'm not in shock, lots of people dont agree with me. And you have each consistently had ONE star each, for many pages back. It looks like an obvious tag team effort to me. And in your U2U you said you dont agree with alot of the disgusting things PT has stated and made that clear on the board, i haven't seen those posts, im sure you remember where they are, can you please direct me and prove me wrong?


What disgusting things would those be friend? Whose version of disgusting would it be?

I assume here on ATS that all posters are mature and open minded adults capable of having a debate on all the aspects of an issue?

Justice has been served in this case per the Victim. If justice is not designed to serve the victim then it is not justice and exists solely for itself.

When people can't respect the rights of the victim some would argue that in itself is disgusting.

Much of what you and others have advocated far exceeds the scope of the law and existing lawful remedies and some people would find that also disgusting.

Most civilized nations find the death penalty disgusting and you have been advocating it all day for the crime of rape, even though not all rapes are rape but slanderous actions by the purported victim.

DNA evidence has found many a rapist innocent who lanquished behind bars for decades, thankfully new technologies at least exonorate them and free them where as what you advocate at best they could be exumed from a prison cemetary and burried in a private one.

This is a disgusting notion to me, but I don't carry that foolhardy and primitive notion to equating you with the same as all people should have empathy and compassion for people regardles of the other person's lack of it.

How you and I define disgusting are definately two different things, but the minute you fail to respect free speech and people with differing oppinions it goes from being any other adjective to un-American and un-Constitutional.

My point all afternoon long is not trampling on anyone's rights victim or perpetrator and applying justice wisely and effectively for the sake of both the victime and the perpetrator.

Ultimately the purpose of a penal system at least our penal system is to rehabilitate anyone where ever it is possible and it does not represent a danger to society.

32 years have passed in Polanski's case with no further crimes that he has been known to commit.

Society is not served, the victime is not served, he is not served by seeking to punish him further.

Your arguments all day long have pretty much how can justice serve your own desire for extracting the ultimate price from people by denying them their very lives on something you will never be able to know for certain, and hundreds of overturned rape cases on DNA evidence prove it is not a crime anyone can ever know for certain as ultimately it boils down to people who might not have been there, and someone who was painting themselves as a victim for other reasons than an actual crime occuring.

These are all reasonable and just arguments and I imagine most reasonable and just people will find nothing 'disgusting' about them at all.



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 05:17 PM
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Originally posted by pavil
I get them from people's own mouths, when they speak up in support of a self confessed person who violated a 13 year old girl. It's not like I am making up their support of Polanski in this matter.


You have spoken to every left leaning person in Hollywood? You are not just painting them with a broad brush? Or can you just admit that this is actually a small group of people that are together because of their business and not ideology. Think Oil + Washington.


Please, please read before you post. Notice I said members, which does not imply all, left leaning people in Hollywood. Perhaps I should have said some members to clarify it even further.


BTW, you still haven't shown me one conservative Hollywood type person supporting Polanski....


I did not claim I could. They are all in D.C. defending child rape there and keeping sex with 15 year olds legal so it will not upset people like you when they engage in it, you know...because then it is legal so it is ok.



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 05:26 PM
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reply to post by Lillydale
 

This is pointless.

No it is not every left leaning person in Hollywood defending Polanski. I have pretty much said that. However every person in Hollywood defending Polanski is left leaning. You yourself have said you could not find a non left leaning member of Hollywood supporting Polanski.

Let me know if you want to debate something more constructive.



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 05:30 PM
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reply to post by pavil
 


Its just denial. Page after page after page of denial. Rather than just saying "Yes, free polanski is a campaign coming from the far-left, and its somewhat questionable" you get lengthy narration, justification, ad hominem attacks, etc.

But its all good, really good, because people get to read.



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 05:35 PM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by pavil
 


Its just denial. Page after page after page of denial. Rather than just saying "Yes, free polanski is a campaign coming from the far-left, and its somewhat questionable" you get lengthy narration, justification, ad hominem attacks, etc.

But its all good, really good, because people get to read.


So friend as most of your threads are excerises in social engineering and experimentation when will you reveal the real purpose of the thread?

Or do you plan too?



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 05:38 PM
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We see you. We see you.

our eyes are open nice and wide.



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by pavil
reply to post by Lillydale
 

This is pointless.

No it is not every left leaning person in Hollywood defending Polanski.


This is pointless. You completely miss the point that this has as much to do with left and right as it does skin color. You want to blame the left, far left, whatever it is the thread says LIBERALS. This is about money, fame, posterity, status, and nothing to do with left, far left, left leaning or liberal.

That is what you are completely missing. You want this to be a left issue so badly but it just isn't and in arguing about it you have simply made the rest of your stance seem every bit as crazy. Why cant you just answer the question you were asked?

PAGE AFTER PAGE OF DEFLECTION AND INSULTS INSTEAD OF SIMPLY ANSWERING THE QUESTION POSED PAGES BACK.

You and your buddy really like backing each other up for hiding from simple questions? You know everyone can read that too, right? So far out of the three of you we get lies, insults, deflection, and no accounting for justice for the victim.



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 06:51 PM
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One of the biggest problems with todays society is the tendency to over complicate things.

This thread is proof of that.

I honestly believe in breaking thing down to their core thereby simplifying things.

The man broke the law, was found guilty and evaded the law for years.

It's not as if she was just slightly under the age of consent, she was 13 year old, he must have known what he wa doing.

Whether he regret it or not is irrelevant.
Whether his supporters are left or right wing is irrelevant.

He deserves to be punished.

Pretty simple really.

Everything else is merely smoke in mirrors.



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 10:17 PM
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Originally posted by Lillydale

....That is what you are completely missing. You want this to be a left issue so badly but it just isn't and in arguing about it you have simply made the rest of your stance seem every bit as crazy. Why cant you just answer the question you were asked?

PAGE AFTER PAGE OF DEFLECTION AND INSULTS INSTEAD OF SIMPLY ANSWERING THE QUESTION POSED PAGES BACK.

You and your buddy really like backing each other up for hiding from simple questions? You know everyone can read that too, right? So far out of the three of you we get lies, insults, deflection, and no accounting for justice for the victim.


First off, you haven't asked me a question that I haven't answered, you must be refering to someone else in this thread, one of my "buddies" I guess.

Lies, insults and deflections eh? Again I must ask you to prove that I have done that. I make it a point to debate civilally and directly answer questions posed to me. I also back my views up with supportable evidence.

What do you mean "no accounting for justice for the victim"? You lost me on that one. Just because a victim may have forgiven someone, doesn't mean society does or should.



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 10:31 PM
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You guys have to realize the kind of life this guy had before you speak, his wife was brutally murdered when she was pregnant(she was stabbed like 50 times) he grew up during the holocaust and one of his parents was actually gassed. I know he did drug her and all but she supposedly she looked as old as 28...these days its not that hard for a 13 year old to look like shes in her 20s with all the makeup etc.



posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 10:33 PM
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Originally posted by pavil
What do you mean "no accounting for justice for the victim"? You lost me on that one. Just because a victim may have forgiven someone, doesn't mean society does or should.


Thanks for giving me a reason to ignore everything else you said. Just because the victim feels justice has been served does NOT mean that you are NOT accounting for justice of the victim? WHAT??? Did you really type that? I will tell you what, take the time to try again and we can see if your are worth responding to.





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