ABOUT ATS: (comments on the new info threads)

The "quote" rules state, in part: "Compound quoting: If you quote someone quoting someone, this will result in a penalty."

I have absolutely no idea why this should result in a penalty, and there are times that it's necessary. The primary reason that any poster quotes another is to provide context for her/his own statements. Often, those statements don't make sense by themselves, and only make sense as a direct response to another statement. If one is to quote the response, then it still won't make sense unless it's accompanied by the earlier, quoted, statement.

And in general, I find the quote rules to be sort of ridiculous. I can understand why the owners don't want people quoting entire posts as a lead-in to a short response, but if you really don't want people to do that, then the solution is to get rid of the "Quote" button. Let anyone who knows how to use markup and Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V quote as necessary, and stop others from doing it simply by not giving them a tool with which to do it.

And if you REALLY want to get rid of excessive quoting, get rid of much of the necessity for it by making the boards threaded rather than flat. On a threaded board, each response is a direct response to one other post, so there's no confusion regarding to whom a response is directed. On a flat board (such as this one), the posts are simply listed chronologically, so if one is responding to a post that someone else made yesterday, and there are any unrelated posts after that one, then one really HAS to quote at least some portion of the post in question just to provide context and prevent the later posters from wondering why you said what you did, since THEY didn't say anything about blah, blah, blah...

Regarding points-- it's a terrible idea to allow mods free rein to grant or remove points. Even in the short time that I've been here, I've seen that there are some mods that grant points based on their personal feelings for the poster in question, or the poster who's at the receiving end of the ire of the poster in question, or the point that the poster in question has made, or any of a number of entirely personal reasons that have nothing to do with the nominal purpose of actually adding to the overall quality of the boards. I like the point system in general, since post counts by themselves just encourage people to post as much nonsense as possible, but I think that if mods are to be allowed to grant points, they should be strictly monitored, and should be harshly penalized themselves for abusing the system.

Personally, I'd prefer to see no points, no post count, no avatars-- nothing but text. A poster on a message board shouldn't need such things to lend him/herself credibility. Either one can think and write compellingly and well, or one cannot. Posters on message boards gain or lose credibility over time based on the content and the form of their posts, and by their character as evidenced by their posts. Post counts and points and such seem to me to be artificial and manipulable constructs designed to usurp that natural process.


All in all, this is a fine site-- one of the better forums on the web. I don't want my criticisms to be taken as anything other than what they are-- suggestions that could conceivably make this place better than it already is...

Search And Seizure

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
There are a few avatars that have bright, flashing, strobe-like lights in them. I try to avoid them, because I have a seizure condition and that kind of light can induce seizures.

I didn't used to have that problem, but after spending so much time staring at Lysergic's undulating psychedelic background next to his posts in the Council forum, I think I do now.

Or maybe it's just the content of his posts which makes me go into convulsions...

Considering how many banner ads and pop-ups have similar properties, the Internet must be turning into a living hell for you.

Then again, I'm not sure you're alone in that respect, either.

Now if you'll excuse me, I think I'll go watch the Simpsons in Japan episode...

Fig. 1: Battling Seizure Robots on Japanese Television




Okay, I know seizures are not exactly a laughing matter, but I do have a reputation for tasteless humor to uphold. You know I love ya BH.

If you have an issue with the actions of a Moderator, please u2u the person question and/or file a complaint for review by admin rather continuing to belabor the point again and again.

Hardly again and again. In 2 threads including this one. And I have little faith in complaint review systems. This forum relies on members to exist. You will agree with that. If I can't air a greivance publically in order to find out that others have the same problem, then what is the point?

As for U2U'ing the moderator in question, I have done that already. Hardly a helpful bloke, but smug. I had no idea a moderator could feel such contempt for a member. I don't even think I'm that bad, otherwise I would have been banned before the end of 2003.

Aerial Warfare

Originally posted by cargo
Hardly again and again. In 2 threads including this one. And I have little faith in complaint review systems. This forum relies on members to exist. You will agree with that. If I can't air a greivance publically in order to find out that others have the same problem, then what is the point?

The problem with using the public approach for specific instances is that the matter escalates from what may be a simple -- and potentially easy-to-resolve -- difference of opinion between a member and a moderator and turns instead into a referendum on moderators as a whole.

If you think this is part of a broader problem that affects all members, then BQ&B is indeed the place to talk about it.

However, dragging the entire board into a disagreement over something specific actually makes it harder for the staff to resolve, because let's face it: that's not something they want to encourage, and I agree with them on this.

If a U2U to the moderator who gave you the warns isn't giving you a satisfactory outcome, my advice is to submit a complaint. The Complaint forum is monitored closely by all staff members and the ATS Member Council, whose purpose is to represent the interests of members there, including you.

Customer Service

The discussions which take place in the Complaints forum are not public, which means staff members and Councilors can speak candidly about the complaints in question, and sometimes the debates get pretty hot.

Moderators can make mistakes, or take actions that senior staff members may disagree with. In these cases, for reasons I hope are obvious, they prefer to resolve things quietly rather than turn them into a drama fest.

If they don't, they risk publicly undermining the moderators, and I don't know of any forum anywhere that will be able to attract and retain good moderators if they do that. In other words, making a big deal out of what might otherwise be resolved quietly does not work in your favor.

As a Councilor, I saw several cases where a member complained, the senior staff looked into it, agreed with the member that something was wrong -- or just decided to cut the member some slack for being cool about the issue -- and made things right.

They are not perfect, but I have seen the people who run this site go out of their way to give members a break so many times that I frankly get annoyed when I see members disparaging them.

The staff are not here to be our doormats, they do need to enforce the T&C, but they are also reasonable people and if dealt with as such, will go the extra mile to make your time here more pleasant.

The Road Less Traveled

My advice is to submit a complaint about this issue, spell out why you think you have been wronged, and suggest what you think is the right thing to do.

Additionally, you may want to send a U2U to the Councilor of your choice and ask that person to go to bat for you on this one.

Doing this may not get you what you want, but it is far more likely to do so than making a scene about it in BQ&B.

Of course, this is all my opinion. You've been here longer and may know something I don't, but if I were in your shoes, that's what I'd do.

.... how does one become a 'contributor'? That might be a good include to the page about points, etc.

I'm new at posting in forums, never really used the internet in the lst 3yrs as muchas I have used it in the last 2 days.
The "in plane sight" DVD got me started on using the internet, but now i'm just wondering if any one can tell my why I've never seen the disclosure report on the discovery channel or A&E "conspiracy week". Am I missing something here? Micheal Moore can make it to the big screen after 9/11 and Dr.Greer can't make it before? I think the two a tied together but get limited feedback from my cat.
Bender26

Greetings everybody. This is my first post in this respectfull forum so I l'd like to thank Admins for making this discussion board on this scale. There were so many places on the web which I visited but so much credible and logical information in one place is really and only characteristic for this place!
Big reason for comming here is firstly informative and truthseeking oriented so one of the things I'm not so endulged in is number of posts and level of advance in this discussion board.
One time earlier I was tried to register but access was denied for some reasons and it hasn't bothered me cause I thaught it will be better next time and it has ...
Now I posto my first post in this forum which I read back from 2003.
In that case there's no doubt in my mind that I'll get answers which I searched for quite some time allready.
Must say that reading and informing youreself before posting some serious questions or statements is first premise of good board user also with tendency for some points after all...

Thankz again and I'll definitively not leave this place

I can well understand the need to avoid repeat topics. Is there a handy index to check topics so that can be readily avoided? Am missing it somehow. Thx

sorry if this has been addressed, but what's the colored bar below the points listing?