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The Reason why (some) protests don't work

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posted on Sep, 28 2009 @ 05:12 PM
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If you are hoping to get anything done at a protest, it is important for your safety as well as the safety of others attending to aqcuire a city permit for such an event.

If you wonder why people go to these protests and get arrested for what is a seemingly mild offense, then please do not forget that local police are hired to enforce city permit zones if needed and you have those same rights.

Here are some excellent examples of how city permits work. What better city than New York?

www.unitedforpeace.org...

Do you need a permit to protest?

No, but if you want to excercise your constitutional rights you do!




posted on Sep, 28 2009 @ 05:19 PM
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Excellent advice.


People need to slow down and think before acting. There are laws in this country and you can't change the laws by breaking them.



posted on Sep, 28 2009 @ 05:21 PM
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reply to post by 12.21.12
 


B.S.

It's my constitutional right to protest peacefully on any public property.

A city permit is nothing more than a bureaucratic attempt to take away that right.





posted on Sep, 28 2009 @ 05:25 PM
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Originally posted by elevatedone
Excellent advice.


People need to slow down and think before acting. There are laws in this country and you can't change the laws by breaking them.


Actually you can, it's called civil disobedience.


Civil disobedience is the active refusal to obey certain laws, demands and commands of a government, or of an occupying power, without resorting to physical violence. It is one of the primary tactics of nonviolent resistance. In its most nonviolent form (in India, known as ahimsa or satyagraha) it could be said that it is compassion in the form of respectful disagreement.


Wiki: Civil Disobedience

I suggest everyone who is fed up with our un-constitutional laws read it.



[edit on 28-9-2009 by lucentenigma]



posted on Sep, 28 2009 @ 05:26 PM
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Ok, I change my mind.

I can't wait for a total police state.



posted on Sep, 28 2009 @ 05:30 PM
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reply to post by elevatedone
 


Thank you.

I just want everybody to have an opportunity not to ruin everything for everyone else!

Theres still time.



posted on Sep, 28 2009 @ 05:30 PM
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reply to post by lucentenigma
 


Not only that but with a permit they are constantly changing. Look at building codes nowadays. Permits allow governments to increasingly exert their control of such protests. It has nothing to do with following the law. It's all about control. It's harder and harder to even get permits to protest these days. And they dictate things like not using a megaphone etc.



posted on Sep, 28 2009 @ 05:32 PM
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reply to post by elevatedone
 


We are beyond that point with all due respect. The problem with the G20 is they are not very organized and there is no common voice. Contrast the G20 with some of the tea party turn outs. Different voice, different crowds, different results.



posted on Sep, 28 2009 @ 05:32 PM
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reply to post by lucentenigma
 





I suggest everyone who is fed up with our un-constitutional laws read it.


Make sure you read about jury nullification too. I pass out this info at flea markets and farmers markets and ask people to inform ten others.

The primary function of the independent juror, is not as many think, to dispense punishment to fellow citizens accused of breaking various laws, but rather to protect fellow citizens from tyrannical abuses of power by the government! fija.org...






The People have the ultimate power.

They choose their representatives when they vote. However, the ultimate power and insurance they have against government run amok is their power in the jury.

It is the jury who decides on whether there is “probable cause” to cause a person to answer to the court AFTER they have heard testimony given under “oath or affirmation”. Today’s system is so perverted that we actually allow ONE prosecutor to decide if, when, and what charges will be brought, if any! This is the first place the people have given away their power.

If a grand or petit jury decides charges should be brought against someone, it is they who get to decide to what extent after hearing an unbiased reason IN LAW for the proposed charges. This is the second place the citizen gives away his power.

If an accused is called to answer charges, the JURY alone not only decides upon guilt or innocence; THEY have the right to judge the law that the accused is alledged to have broken. That is where the term “jury nullification” comes from. A modern jury simply gives a verdict of “not guilty” which does NOTHING to challenge the law they are judging! Of course, they are not “nullifying” their verdict; the attempt is to nullify the law whether it is unconstitutional or improperly applied. The potential jury member of today is UNLAWFULLY instructed by the judge that they are triers of the facts and nothing more. Any potential juror who did not assent to those instructions and who understood the ancient right of declaring a law unconstitutional would not be allowed to sit on a jury. A judge is NOTHING more than a referee and is there to be certain that the laws are applied, and in some cases, interpreted and used in that manner as he sees they were meant to be.

HOWEVER, the jury is still the final judge— they can ignore a judge they feel he is wrong. This is the third and final chapter in the People’s forfeiture of their rights! They simply do not understand that the SCOTUS is not the final judge— THEY ARE! The next time someone asks you about the three branches of government in the U. S. democratic Republic I hope you take the opportunity to enlighten them to their benefit and the benefit of every citizen. The three branches of government are the Executive (President/Courts) Legislative (House and Senate) and the Sovereigns (the citizens)! Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise! Merry Colin









posted on Sep, 28 2009 @ 05:35 PM
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Originally posted by Zosynspiracy
reply to post by lucentenigma
 


Not only that but with a permit they are constantly changing. Look at building codes nowadays. Permits allow governments to increasingly exert their control of such protests. It has nothing to do with following the law. It's all about control. It's harder and harder to even get permits to protest these days. And they dictate things like not using a megaphone etc.


Exactly, you will probably need the help of a lawyer to decipher the code of the 'law' so you can protest legally.

The 'laws' and 'rules of procedure' are stacked in favor of those who make the 'laws'.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


[edit on 28-9-2009 by lucentenigma]



posted on Sep, 28 2009 @ 05:42 PM
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reply to post by lucentenigma
 


Looks pretty straight-forward to me!

www.unitedforpeace.org...


Know Your Rights: Demonstrating in New York City

Information from the New York Civil Liberties Union about your legal rights

Know Your Rights: Demonstrating in New York City
by The New York Civil Liberties Union


New Yorkers have the right to engage in peaceful, protest activity on public sidewalks, in public parks, and on public streets in New York City. This includes the right to distribute handbills or leaflets; the right to hold press conferences, demonstrations, and rallies; and the right to march on public sidewalks and in public streets. The City can and does impose certain restrictions on these activities, and in some instances one must obtain a permit before engaging in certain activity. This brochure is intended to inform New Yorkers of the basic rules governing demonstration activity.

Do I Need a Permit?

It depends on what you want to do. If you want to distribute handbills on a public sidewalk or in a public park, have a demonstration, rally, or press conference on a public sidewalk, or march on a public sidewalk and you do not intend to use amplified sound, you do not need any permit. If you want to use amplified sound on public property, want to have an event with more than 20 people in a New York City park, or wish to conduct a march in a public street, you will need a permit. If you wish to have an event on the steps of City Hall or in the plaza in front of the steps, you need to make special arrangements with the Police Department.

If I Want to Distribute Handbills; Have a Demonstration, Rally, Press Conference; or March on a Public Sidewalk, What Do I Need to Do?

Nothing but plan your event. If you want, you can notify the Police Department, but that is not required. If you do notify the Police Department, officers may appear at the event; if your event involves a significant number of people, the Police Department may set up a ?pen? in which they will ask you to stand.

In conducting your event, you cannot block pedestrian passage on a sidewalk, and thus should leave at least one-half of the sidewalk free for use. You also cannot block building entrances.

What if I Want to March on a Public Street?

You may be able to march in a public street (as opposed to on a sidewalk) in some circumstances. In every instance, you must apply (for) and obtain a permit from the Police Department. If you expect to have fewer than 1000 people in your march, you can apply for a permit at the precinct in which the march will originate. If you expect 1000 people or more, you must apply at Police Headquarters (1 Police Plaza, Room 1100A) in lower Manhattan. There is no fee to apply for a parade permit.

As a general rule, the Police Department will only allow marches to take place in the street if the group has enough people so that it is not safe or otherwise reasonable for the group to march on the sidewalk. In those instances in which a group is allowed to march in the street, the police will close a portion of the roadway for the group. (1)

What If I Want to Use Amplified Sound?

If you want to use amplified sound in a public place, you must receive a permit from the Police Department. You apply for the permit at the precinct within which you wish to use sound, and in most precincts you obtain the application from the precinct?s Community Affairs Office. The fee for a one-time permit is $45.00.

Though City rules specify that permits must be sought at least five days before the event, you are entitled to receive a permit even if you apply less than five days before your event. City rules prohibit the use of amplified sound within 500 feet of a school, courthouse or church during hours of school, court or worship, or within 500 feet of a hospital or similar institution. In many instances, the permit may specify a decibel limit on the level of permissible sound. City rules also prohibit the use of amplified sound between 10:00 p.m. and 9:00 a.m. in nonresidential areas; in residential areas, amplified sound is not permitted between 8:00 p.m. or sunset (whichever is later) and (9:00 a.m. on weekdays, and between 8:00 p.m. or sunset (whichever is later) and 10:00 a.m. on weekends.

Finally, if you intend to use amplified sound that requires electricity, you are not allowed to tap into public power (e.g. a light pole) unless you have made specific arrangements with the City to do so. (2)

What If I Want to Have a Rally, Press Conference or Demonstration in a City Park?

You are entitled to distribute expressive materials or to have a rally, press conference, or demonstration in a City Park. If the event will include more than 20 participants, you must obtain a Special Events permit from the Parks Department. You can obtain a permit application, which contains the general rules governing the permit process, from the Department?s main office in the borough where the park is located or from the Parks Department?s website (nycparks.completeinet.net). The fee for applying for a permit is $25.00.

You also are entitled to use amplified sound at an event in a City park. As with amplified sound in other public places, you must obtain a permit from the Police Department to use amplified sound in a public park. Generally, the Police Department will not issue a sound permit until you obtain your Parks Department permit. (3)



posted on Sep, 28 2009 @ 05:51 PM
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reply to post by 12.21.12
 


Yup, a pretty straight forward way of watering down my 1st amendment rights!

Your exactly right.



posted on Sep, 28 2009 @ 05:53 PM
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reply to post by lucentenigma
 


Yeah but even the UN does that, they get a permit. Thats why police arrest people for seamingly nothing. City Permit violation=trespassing.



posted on Sep, 28 2009 @ 06:05 PM
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Originally posted by 12.21.12
reply to post by lucentenigma
 


Yeah but even the UN does that, they get a permit. Thats why police arrest people for seamingly nothing. City Permit violation=trespassing.


And that makes it right?

That is why the most police are so hated in America, they are nothing more then jack booted thugs on a power trip.

The U.N. is a foreign entity on U.S. soil.

Americans are entitled to the rights provided to them by the U.S. Constitution.



posted on Sep, 28 2009 @ 06:08 PM
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reply to post by lucentenigma
 


The police have taken an oath to defend your right to assemble, the police have taken an oath to the constitution.

The police are mediators as far as I am concerned.

The protesters are acting irrational.



posted on Sep, 28 2009 @ 06:31 PM
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The First Ammendment


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


You have the right to peacefully assemble and petition.

Second Ammendment



A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


You can not wield the first ammendment because you have not assembled peacefully. How could you wield the second if you can not wield the first?

[edit on 28-9-2009 by 12.21.12]



posted on Sep, 28 2009 @ 09:34 PM
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People, we do not have constitutional rights unless we attain constitutional rights.

The constitutional rights are available for those that can wield them properly.

Without wielding the constitution properly, it is useless.

Have you ever heard the story of King Arthur? The sword and the stone? Zelda?

The sword is the constitution. the stone is knowledge.

If you do not obtain the stone which is knowledge, you can not obtain the sword which is authority..

[edit on 28-9-2009 by 12.21.12]



posted on Sep, 29 2009 @ 02:22 AM
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Originally posted by Zosynspiracy
reply to post by lucentenigma
 


Not only that but with a permit they are constantly changing. Look at building codes nowadays. Permits allow governments to increasingly exert their control of such protests. It has nothing to do with following the law. It's all about control. It's harder and harder to even get permits to protest these days. And they dictate things like not using a megaphone etc.


You are 100% correct, it never is anything to do with laws, arrest the people causing damage ( I agree), but when you make it a legal process for people to express there RIGHTS, you will be able to control the vast majority of people!! (the more difficult the process, the less people will go through the process). so they get what they want in the end..... SHUT UP AND MOVE ALONG..... nothing to see here!! SHEEPLE........



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