The Right to Freedom of Religion

Originally posted by dizzylizzy

Favourite quote of mine is
'I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to death your right to say it'

Don't most indoctrinate children to a certain degree?

Guess the agnostics and those who have no political allegiance will have less of an influence on their kids.

That quote is definitely quotable. I am going to memorize that because it is so succinctly put.

We are all indoctrinated by every little thing in our society, not just by the beliefs of our parents or family. Media plays a bigger role than ever it did, and Schools do as well. And never forget the power of Literature which holds far more control over the outcome of World Events and the Future of Humankind than any one Religion, Political Group or TPTB may ever dream of having!

Ideas are dangerous things, and highly contagious too!

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Well said BH, the big joke here is, the choice is taken for most at childhood when indoctrinating of belief system commences. Its designed to keep a child part of that collective belief system. Perpetuating a type slavery (ie no free will for these children) for generation after generation.


[edit on 28-9-2009 by zazzafrazz]

reply to post by zazzafrazz


I agree that that is the design, and that is why my child would never go to public school during the formative years.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by sisgood
Why can't we present all issues equally and let the individual choose?

Do you mean to your children? You can. You can teach them anything you want.

I don't believe teaching religion has any place in public schools except as an objective study of different religious beliefs of the world. And that should include atheism, which is a religious belief - a belief about religion - but not a religion.

You are incorrect, "atheism" is the complete lack of religion, therefore cannot be a religion. Your logic is flawed.

reply to post by Rodeen


Read my post again. That's what I said.

Atheism is a belief about religion (or a deity), not a religion.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I reread it, but since god cannot be proven by its claimants, it is non-existant. Which is not a belief, but indeed a fact. I don't believe there isn't a god, but accept it as a fact. The burden of proof is upon the person making a positive claim.

This.

reply to post by Rodeen


I agree with you 100%. I don't, however, insist that everyone else agrees with me.

Atheism isn't the topic of this thread, though, and I don't wish to take it further off topic.

Agreed we are going off on a tangent and don't wish to hijack this thread further. My point in this line of discussion is how can I fight to defend what is non-existent, and promotes violence of one nature or another against me. It's like asking for some people to fight for the right to publish scientific articles saying that 2+2=blue, because that is the authors belief.

Originally posted by Rodeen
Agreed we are going off on a tangent and don't wish to hijack this thread further. My point in this line of discussion is how can I fight to defend what is non-existent, and promotes violence of one nature or another against me. It's like asking for some people to fight for the right to publish scientific articles saying that 2+2=blue, because that is the authors belief.

But they're not fighting to publish scientific articles. They're fighting to have and express their beliefs. Their religion is their belief system. We all have belief systems. They can believe in the Spaghetti Monster if they want to.

If violence occurs, then that needs to be dealt with as a different matter. The first amendment does not protect the right to carry out violence on another person. That's a different matter altogether.

This is a thought provoking dilemma involving a multitude of considerations. To be willing to die in support of maintaining this freedom suggests that the "group of people" attempting to take this right away can only be stopped by taking up arms. Could the OP elaborate on the manner in which he/she views this freedom being denied? Closing of all places of worship? No parochial schools? No public displays of worship or wearing of icons? Are you thinking in terms of this "group" as being domestic perpetrators or foreign invaders attempting to convert our way of life to theirs (in which case I would readily defend my nation above all)? Where I run into a problem being honest with myself about what I would be willing to do involves the act of killing in defense of religion. I have a moral issue with taking up arms for any reason other than to defend my physical person (or that of my family members). I don't think I would be tolerant of any religion that supports killing as a means to an end, so why would I be willing to kill to defend the freedom of religion? There would have to be another way to stop this right from being taken away than to have to risk death in doing so.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Sorry to disappoint all the "believers" out there but I will not fight for ones belief in His Noodly Goodness, nor want to be touched by His Divine Appendages.

His Noodly Appendage

[edit on 28/9/09 by Rodeen]

Reply to post by sisgood

You wouldn't have to look very far sadly enough. For every stripe there is a zealot seeking to shove it down everyone else's throat with force if need be. They always seem to take offense at disagreement.


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reply to post by Rodeen


I'm not asking you to fight for anything. That's something for each of us to decide. But I believe STRONGLY in the Constitution and would fight for the RIGHTS therein.

reply to post by fraterormus


I think this whole business is being pushed in the direction of individual Muslim rights totally replacing Christianity in the world. Why are we Christians being called the haters? We were not the people who lop off your head if you have a page from the bible. People are dieing for no other reason but to be shut up. We better reread the constitution where it says that no religion shall be forced upon or taken away from the people. It also states that the government can not take our religion from our schools or public places. The government is making laws bashing Christians and promoting Islam in our country, proving that there is no separations of church and state. The government is promoting a One World Order and a One World Religion, in which again is against the constitution, and therefore it is also written that if any laws are broken by the government, the people have the right to overthrow the dictatorship and start a new constitution to replace the laws the old government had changed, and to base this new government after the original constitution, and rights of the people to take back control from these traitors of the USA. I am not paranoid, nor a hater, but I will not sit still, while I am being tied up and bound, from my religious right to my belief system that was conceived by the American values that were in effect at the time of my birth, 1955. People" we need to look in the right frame of mind, about which rights you are willing to give up for another country's beliefs. These are not the rights that we signed into the constitution then, and it will not be the rights the government changed illegally, without our consent by the majority rule. These laws they are producing, are the laws from other cultures, that don't have any laws in common with our laws, if they come into this country, they have to abide by our laws, not that of Muslims. Christians are not allowed to pray in public by the orders of the government, but invite the Muslims on the White-house lawn? Who authorized these laws, and when, and also when did they report to the people that they were instituting these laws? When they start to answer these questions, then we will know how the government rule has hijacked our country, and is in the next level of mass imprisonment of the people, who are not even of any religious threatening cults. The prisoners will be all but one million people, that will be saved, to serve the NWO. We will be depopulated to the point of total control-ability of one million slaves. All planed out by the Billionaires and millionaires, who will be the NWO. This is the end of this age, and will not ever be the same free will country we used to love. The government already put this country into bankruptcy for the sole purpose of citizen takeover, and we will not have money,homes,family's,freedoms anymore in this world. History has repeated itself many times, and this time it's the Roman Empire repeating itself, and we all will serve the good of the NWO against our free will. If our Christian God was so bad, then why did he give us free will. Does any other god offer us this privledge, I think not my friends. Well this is my choice and my beliefs, just try to starve me of my free will. Well God bless my Christian comrads, we will meet again in the cattle trailers to the gas chambers.

reply to post by Rodeen


Thats all fine and good, but don't come running to us for support when you find out you were wrong. Re my post below and reread it if you still don't get the danger of your thinking. You will be running for safety from the same dictators that are after the Christians. You don't see the army's over the next hill, from where we are running. So join us now for freedom, or be enslaved later by your own beliefs. This is not just a religious argument anymore friend, we Christians are just doing what our God has asked of us to do, protect our fellow man, and to love our neighbors. So don't be an ant under the boot of the New World Order. Other cultures have been feeding you all the propaganda, the wrong message, to hide what they are planning to do, and by keeping us all fighting each other, we take this life for granted and think we will always be free. It's OK that you don't believe, you see us Christians love you anyway, weather you care about yourself and family or not, it doesn't matter when you mock us, it will not change a true Christian from his or her duties that was handed down from our God, So even if you fall, there will still be a Christian that will be there for you to help you up, even if it takes our life in the process.
We are not haters friend, just trying to keep humankind from being put into gas chambers for what they believed in. This is our rights as humans, that was given by our creator.

Originally posted by itsmychoice
We are not haters friend, just trying to keep humankind from being put into gas chambers for what they believed in.

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