Bill Clinton Speaks of Vast, Right-Wing Conspiracy, page 2
Pages: <<  1    2    3  >>
ATS Members have flagged this thread 9 times


reply posted on 29-9-2009 @ 10:38 AM by whatukno
reply to post by ninecrimes



Really, you don't have to end every post with an insult.

Like I said, come back when you don't just want to argue. Thanks.


reply posted on 29-9-2009 @ 10:40 AM by ninecrimes
reply to post by whatukno



The "deflecting" strategy is only making you out to look like an ignoramus. Your hatred for free speech insults me- so please, stop insulting me (see, we can both keep deflecting).

My conclusion:
You are using the definition of conspiracy to label something as such. However, by that same definition, everything around us, including our government, is one big conspiracy. Instead, I see a group of people with a certain point of view, discussing it amongst themselves. You may call it a conspiracy, but I call it America- and I think it's beautiful.

If we were not free to discuss different political views & opinions with our friends and family, would you feel any better?

[edit on 29-9-2009 by ninecrimes]


reply posted on 29-9-2009 @ 10:44 AM by whatukno
reply to post by ninecrimes



Free speech is great. Lies aren't

I could say that you like sodomizing infants while selling crack to illegal aliens. That's free speech. It's not true, but I could say it right?

I have no basis to say anything like that but because of free speech I guess it's all good that I say it right?


reply posted on 29-9-2009 @ 10:44 AM by crimvelvet
reply to post by whatukno




Now that Obama is in charge the change has been the attitudes of people.


Instead of the "I LOVE Obama" routine how about READING??? I judged him and Congress by their ACTIONS and BILLS not by the media pap.

Farmers were hoping Obama would choose Mike Pollan or someone similar as Sec of Ag. Instead we get a corporate/Monsanto shill called Vilsack. We farmers, may of whom are democrats, were still willing to wait so what do we get?

Rosa Delauro and her miserable food Safety Bill.
And find not only are ALL FARMS but Home Gardens ARE effected by the HR 875 bill!!!!

“..FOOD PRODUCTION FACILITY- The term 'food production facility' means any farm, ranch, orchard, vineyard, aquaculture facility, or confined animal-feeding operation...”
There is NO exemption for instate commerce, for hobby farms, for you backyard garden.

“ The Administrator, in order to protect the public health, shall establish a national traceability system that enables the Administrator to retrieve the history, use, and location of an article of food through all stages of its production, processing, and distribution.

set good practice standards to protect the public and animal health and promote food safety;

conduct monitoring and surveillance of animals, plants, products, or the environment, as appropriate

require each food production facility to have a written food safety plan that describes the likely hazards and preventive controls implemented to address those hazards;

include, with respect to growing, harvesting, sorting, and storage operations, minimum standards related to fertilizer use, nutrients, hygiene, packaging, temperature controls, animal encroachment, and water”


Notice it does not say a person SELLING food, it says a person holds, stores, or transports food or food ingredients.

This is very scary given Ag Sec. Venman's " September, 1995, USDA's Food Safety & Inspection Service presented a 600-page document Farm-To-Table - control of every step in the food chain from production to home preparation. "

HR 875 also includes this.
"in any action to enforce the requirements of the food safety law, the connection with interstate commerce required for jurisdiction SHALL BE PRESUMED TO EXIST."

The fact you are growing veggies for you and friends does not exclude you!


The Commerce Clause:

A farmer growing wheat for his own use “The government claimed that if Mr. Filburn grew wheat for his own use, he would not be buying it — and that affected interstate commerce” The Supreme court found against the farmer!!!
www.fff.org...


Enter Roscoe Filburn, an Ohio dairy and poultry farmer, who raised a small quantity of winter wheat — some to sell, some to feed his livestock, and some to consume. In 1940, under authority of the Agricultural Adjustment Act, the central government told Mr. Filburn that for the next year he would be limited to planting 11 acres of wheat and harvesting 20 bushels per acre. He harvested 12 acres over his allotment for consumption on his own property. When the government fined him, Mr. Filburn refused to pay.
Wickard v. Filburn got to the Supreme Court, and in 1942, the justices unanimously ruled against the farmer. The government claimed that if Mr. Filburn grew wheat for his own use, he would not be buying it — and that affected interstate commerce. It also argued that if the price of wheat rose, which is what the government wanted, Mr. Filburn might be tempted to sell his surplus wheat in the interstate market, thwarting the government's objective. The Supreme Court bought it


The Court's opinion must be quoted to be believed:
[The wheat] supplies a need of the man who grew it which would otherwise be reflected by purchases in the open market. Home-grown wheat in this sense competes with wheat in commerce.
As Epstein commented, "Could anyone say with a straight face that the consumption of home-grown wheat is 'commerce among the several states?'" For good measure, the Court justified the obvious sacrifice of Mr. Filburn's freedom and interests to the unnamed farmers being protected:
It is of the essence of regulation that it lays a restraining hand on the self-interest of the regulated and that advantages from the regulation commonly fall to others.
After Wickard , everything is mere detail. The entire edifice of civil rights legislation stands on the commerce power. Under this maximum commerce power, the government has been free to regulate nearly everything, including a restaurant owner's bigotry. The Court has held that if Congress sees a connection to interstate commerce, it is not its role to second guess.





Control the Food, Control The People - Kissinger



reply posted on 29-9-2009 @ 10:48 AM by whatukno
reply to post by Cosmic4life



This I agree with.

People are being used in this country.

[edit on 9/29/2009 by whatukno]



reply posted on 29-9-2009 @ 10:49 AM by ninecrimes
Originally posted by whatukno
reply to
post by ninecrimes



Free speech is great. Lies aren't

I could say that you like sodomizing infants while selling crack to illegal aliens. That's free speech. It's not true, but I could say it right?

I have no basis to say anything like that but because of free speech I guess it's all good that I say it right?


Great example!

If I were to read that, I would put out the truth. I would tell people that I do not like doing those things, and then it would be my word against theirs. That is freedom, that is America, and it's beautiful!

Anyone can say anything, to anyone else.

I love it and I wouldn't want it any other way.

If you think that's a conspiracy, maybe you should live in Burma or some other poverse nation that gives zero rights to it's citizens. Then, there would be no crazy conspirators trash-talking your beloved leader.


reply posted on 29-9-2009 @ 10:57 AM by crimvelvet


How about a few clear examples?

Ted Nugent is praying for Obama to fail.

Rush said

"We're not praying for Obama to fail, we are working and fighting as hard as we can to ensure it happens.""We're not praying for Obama to fail, we are working and fighting as hard as we can to ensure it happens."

And the gang of six.

Mike Enzi does it for the lulz.


And you believe the Mass Media???
ATS

There are only two real groups the elite and us serfs. Both parties represent the elite and NOT us serfs. I though everyone here at ATS had at least figured out that part.

Once you give that idea brain room you are ready to look at what is said in the mass media and what is in the bills from the perspective of who benefits and what Constitutional rights do these bills trash. Consider new bills from the idea that a corporate Cartel will run the new department, it sure puts an eye opening twist on things.

The democrat vs republican stuff is just bread and circuses to keep the masses deflected while the Bankers and Corporate cartels consolidate their power and rape us.






Control the Food, Control The People - Kissinger



reply posted on 29-9-2009 @ 11:12 AM by RoofMonkey



Obviously a fabricated video eh?

Once you have convinced the dupes of your greatness... how is it megalomania?


[edit on 29-9-2009 by RoofMonkey]


reply posted on 29-9-2009 @ 11:55 AM by threekings
reply to post by ninecrimes



There is no 'freedom of speech' regarding political issues, there can't be, because politics is not disclosed to the public in the way that it should be.

There can be freedom of speech regarding the state of current issues. But as of right now, no one knows exactly what the health care bill is going to bring and politicians don't release the motivations behind their policies.

Unless the motivations behind every policy is disclosed to the public there can be no 'free' speech on the subject.

What Clinton (I assume) is referring to is campaigns launched by the other party to influence people's views on Obama's policies, therefore making it coerced speech rather than 'free' speech.

I think people should speak out about current legislation that is damaging to the system and seek further disclosure in future bills. As of right now you have to admit there is plenty of misinformation about the Obama Bill.


reply posted on 29-9-2009 @ 12:14 PM by crimvelvet
reply to post by whatukno





This I agree with.

People are being used in this country.


I am glad you can see that much.

As for Rush, Glen Beck and company. They are part of the elite's "you and he fight - dog and pony show" designed top make us think we have a "free" media that actually reports the news.

When Derry Brownfield got too close to the real truth about Monsanto, he was tossed off the air. Farm Broadcaster Ousted after Ripping Monsanto’s Goon Squads Over the last couple of years I and other farmers have found the news media is sewn up tight by the big corporations. Only the news they want the public to see is presented. Ask John Munsell about how he was shut up. I e-mailed him and got the story direct from him.
Pages: <<  1    2    3  >>    ^^TOP^^




Newest topics getting replies, in real-time:

Stop Bashing Us Military Folks.
  Rant, Posted 15 hours ago, 185 replies
Anonymous hacks CIA
  Breaking Alternative News, Posted 10 hours ago, 101 replies
Free Psychic Readings
  General Chit Chat, Posted 6 hours ago, 70 replies