Can a SOUL be Malevolent?

I received some very thought provoking responses to a recent thread.

Does 'EVIL' Reincarnate?

This has started my journey down yet another path where my understanding is far from where I would like it to be.

Several of you alluded to the notion that a 'soul' is something that is independent of the body and is not burdened by the notion of good, or evil and that these human labels cannot apply to the soul, which transcends our physical existence.

I find this intriguing, but it has left me with some holes in my beliefs that I am once again seeking your input on. I realize that this is probably old hat for some of you and your patience and tolerance are greatly admired and appreciated.

In my oversimplified understanding, I have apparently often equated malevolence with evil and benevolence with good. This just always made sense to me.

It was also a core belief of mine that the SOUL, and not the BRAIN was responsible for decisions and the physical manifestation of inward intent. A person with an evil soul would act in a malevolent manner whereas a person with a good soul would be benevolent towards others. I know that this generalization doesn't really work, but think of it as lighter gray and darker gray. More evil leads to a darker gray soul (not entirely black all the time) and more good leads to a lighter gray (not entirely white all the time)

I believe that this physical existence that I take up space in is in fact punctured on occasions by souls, or fields of energy with sentience, or consciousness, that have either benevolent, or malevolent expressions towards those that still have bodies. I don't have any proof, It's just what I believe. I believe in ghosts.

I feel like such a child sometimes when I try to put my beliefs in to words.

When a ghost hurts someone, I think of it as malevolent, or bad, or evil. That is probably a core system of labels that I need to change, but I am reluctant, lest that leads to justification on my part of actions I would find objectionable otherwise.

I also feel that when a ghost does no harm, but even helps someone, through a warning, or action, that the ghost is benevolent, or good.

The question for me arises when trying to determine motivation of these non-corporeal beings that are not subject to the limitations or chemistry of a physical brain.

If a ghost 'decides' to do harm, if it is capable of such, would that not indicate that the decision making process is not based on brains, but on souls? Would that not also indicate that the TENDENCY to be either benevolent, or malevolent is a product of the soul, or energy field, and not the physical mind?

Some very well spoken and thoughtful individuals have told me that the soul is independent of the physical body and that good and evil don't really exist. But clearly, benevolence and malevolence DO exist, right?

Hatred and harm, though not necessarily evil, ARE negative, right? Just as compassion and assistance are positive?

Given the belief that malevolence and benevolence both exist, can a soul possess these qualities?

Am I trying too hard to rationalize my own beliefs?

I cant really add to much but, I do believe there are benevolent and malevolent souls. Maybe it depends on how they lived in there bodies or how they died, whether it be natural causes or a violent death, like murder, in which case, it would take its aggression out on the person that harmed there body/vessel. Sorry I cant add much more this is a subject I haven't dove into to much, though I do believe in ghosts, spirits, and poltergeists. I have read some literature on them and it is interesting and thought provoking...


PEACE!!!

Well, I've learned that it's really about negative and positive, not good/evil--malevolent/benevolent.

I've had trouble pondering the difference but apparently there is. I do believe a soul can be malevolent, however, it's natural state is supposed to be one of pure light and love. Not the kind of love we experience in the physical realm, but true, unconditional love for ALL THINGS, no exceptions.

I mean, basically you have to even love Hitler

I fully believe that it's the experiences in the physical realm that determine whether a soul is aligned with the negative or positive. But sometimes, a soul is just confused because they may have came for a specific purpose then forgot and may have gone "astray". Other souls are obsessed with "sins of the flesh" (the sensations that can only be experienced in the physical realm) and therefore become negatively aligned because they then become selfish and/or narcissistic, and/or vain.

Back to Hitler, he was obviously aligned with the negative, but does that really mean he was evil? I don't know. But as my boyfriend has pointed out, even Hitler thought he was doing the right thing and perhaps saving the world. Not that this excuses anything he did by any means, but perhaps it helps to distinguish the difference between negative/positive and good/evil.

These are just things I've picked up here and there in my quest for knowledge and understanding and may have even been misinterpreted by me. But maybe it helps. I hope so.

reply to post by nunya13



Good response, I agree with that. I got a star for you because I feel like giving out stars today...

PEACE!!!

reply to post by KSPigpen


You know. I had some insight into this a long time ago when I was watching The CW's Supernatural. Don't remember the episode name. I think it was the final episode of season 2. Dean was technically dead and a reaper was trying to get his soul. And he refused to go, said he had to keep fighting. The reaper told him he would become just like the very thing he hunts after a few decades of being alone and ignored.

Point is that I don't think the supposed "soul" can be born malevolent. But if a such thing exists, and a person dies a violent death or has unfinished business, that overtime that spirit/soul may become angry and want revenge on those that hurt him/her or their family.

As far as evil goes. Evil and good are the simplistic terms we use to try and understand the nature of existence. Science has shown that anti-matter and matter annihilate eachother. Philosophy has stated that for every action there is an equally as powerful reaction. So I think this goes to show that good and evil do not exist, rather there is a well maintained balance which makes existence possible to begin with.

Then again you have communites like the otherkin that have members believing their spirits originated from demons and vampires and the like. So who knows.

[edit on 28-9-2009 by Mr. Toodles]

reply to post by KSPigpen


Hi KS,

Okay, I've done a lot of reading on this subject from time to time. Some times I'm way into it, and like now, this time it's been a while. Regardless of what I say the proof from any expert is fleeting at best.

There are thoughts to the orders of netherworlds/dimensions/times/spaces/or just plain other Worlds.

It all interacts. It all affects. A soul isn't necessarily the highest form of life form, or essence. In fact a "spirit" is ranked as a higher being.

There are many beliefs that almost everyone has a soul, and a few have Spirit. It all delves into the perpetual struggle between good, and evil.......Yes, I believe in this, but it isn't so clear cut, and dry. Being evil can be necessary for the overall good, or Love. Now that is where the struggle really starts being defined. Love=good, happy, joy; while Hate= anger, rage, ***fear***.

I guess in the order of operations is something like Spirit, soul, ???, ????, astral, ego, phsyical. I cannot remember a couple levels there, but the thought goes that everything has both an astral body, and a physical body; even rocks.

The higher developed an entity the more complex their "soul group" becomes. Souls can be shared, and even from a group standpoint. An example of this would be any number of particular species of animal. Even into the human animal, there are soul groups; the defining difference is the Ego. The Ego is tied directly with Your Mind, which is considered different than Your brain. I know, I know, I know wtf????

It is said the human body is nothing more than a super machine with a super computer used for functions, and operations. Kinda like driving a car. The super computer is the brain, and Our ego which is connected to the abstract concept of a mind is what is telling the brain what to do. It is said the mind, or ego is located in the Heart, and I kinda agree with that. The Heart uses it's own electrical signals to beat. The brain doesn't control the Heart; also the Heart is created, and working before the brain.

It is no light concept to realize Western medicine is wrong, and that You are actually in Your chest, but Eastern medicine has been aware of this.

Any ways, The ego is left after death. It still has an astral body, and this is one hypothesis of what ghosts are. They are simply a Person void of a physical body, but still in tune, and holding onto their ego in the Astral.

I know I'm not the best at explaining this; as it has been a long time since learning, or explaining it.

In a nut shell Most animals, and humans are re absorbed into their group soul, but there are those amongst us with Spirit; which would be likened to an individual soul, but not.

There is no hate, or inequality to this theory; as whatever anybody is in the physical form is simply the physical incarnation of what You are. So if Your happy, and full of joy it will always be; even should You belong to a group soul, I guess those who have spirit are believed to have originated at the moment of first thought, and would be folks likened with Buddha, Mohammad, or Jesus; kinda a tough crowd to join in with

Any ways, whatever Your origins of soul, or spirit out of this realm I believe it completely transcends, or descends space, time, and dimension into composing Your physical body, and ego.

So, A genuine nice Person would come from a genuine nice......Benevolent soul group, and a dirty low down mean evil hateful Person does come from a truly malevolent soul group. It is said the malevolent ones don't ascend past even the astral plane; as in they don't even have a soul. I know I just said two different things, but I think there are different kinds of Evil, or malevolence. Just like there is different kinds of good soul groups............................

Er, okay, Maybe I am just rambling............... It's a "neat" rum night, or just plain strait up
S&F

reply to post by KSPigpen


Interesting...today I was thinking the same question.

I was thinking that maybe 'evil' is only part of this the 3rd dimension.
It's learning ground.

Above that (4th, 5th...) we enter into the spiritual.

But, now I am thinking maybe the universe doesn't discriminate....maybe in other dimensions there are 'evil' souls/spirits....
I really don't know.



I find out each day just how little I know when talking about the...unknown.
I can only guess really.

I posted a reply but it vanished somewhere - probably to a totally unrelated topic - if so, I apologise to whoever received it.

Yes, I firmly believe that there are benevolent souls and malevolent souls.

I believe that the fight between good and evil is ongoing, and probably our reason for being here.

Whoever said that thing about nothing being good or bad but thinking makes it so was, I think, hugely wrong.

How can anyone say that about horrifc things like child abduction, torture, murder, wars, abuse to animals etc.

What I am unsure about is if souls were created in this way, or whether the process of living made them that way.

Also, just to point out, benevolent literally means good, and malevolent literally means bad.

It somes down to the old question about nature versus nurture.

reply to post by KSPigpen


If we simply pass from the physical realm into the spiritual realm, then the expectation would follow: we don't change that much. At least initially. We're all there in the spiritual realm together. The good, the bad, and the ugly. We still have free will.

A message from a newly passed soul, having only passed within 72 hours at the time of the message:

"I have to watch what I do here. There are mean people here, and people who play tricks on you".

This soul also made a reference to the "grey person". Interesting as it relates to your OP. (not aliens, okay?)

But hey, consider this a disclaimer. I think this is what I believe, or I believe it at times, or I'm just really not sure.

reply to post by spellbound


I really enjoyed your response. The big question I am trying to answer for myself, and I think you may have alluded to it's slipperiness...is whether a person can be born with a malevolent soul...

Yeah, nature vs. nurture, for sure....

but deeper for me, if a could can be born malevolent, where was it before it came here?

reply to post by ladyinwaiting


I find that absolutely intriguing LIW. The thought that all of the souls can just 'hang out' after, or before incarnation is something that can boggle my mind. I'm trying to work that in to my rusty brain. It's really fascinating....I got to wondering the other day that if souls were the 'source' of good, or evil, then would they be coming from different places? You know how they pound that stuff in to our heads. Good guys go up, bad guys go down...That stopped making sense to me at about twelve.: (slow learner) But I haven't been able to find all the pieces I need to believe something that makes sense to me...you've helped me though. Thanks you.

reply to post by Before2017Victor


Guessing is really all I;m doing to, my friend..I ask questions on here and people are kind, for the most part and give me their opinion, free of charge. This stuff would cost a LOT of money by the hour.

reply to post by sanchoearlyjones


Thanks, Sancho, my old friend. I know YOU know that I appreciate you stopping by when you do. Your head must hurt some times trying to keep all the stuff up there.

The idea of group souls is very interesting to me....do you think most humans have spirit, or not too many? Are you saying that a larges number of people can share a group soul once they leave this place?

What about promotions? If I was part 12 of 46 and I wanted to have spirit so I could have my own soul washroom...

do you think evil souls groups and good soul groups hang out?

Your question goes back to the age old question... nature, or nurture?

I really think it's both.

Example:
A little boy is born. His father is in jail for various crimes and has a drug history. His mother lets him get away with far too much and he follows his father's path.

Was the boy born a criminal? No. Was he predispositioned to become a criminal and a drug addict? Yes. If the boy had been raised a different way would he still have gotten into trouble? Perhaps.

People like this boy need different rules than the rest of society. Knowing that her son had a predisposition for crime and drugs, she should have come down on him especially hard for showing interest in these things... harder than the parent of a child not predispositioned to do these things.
She could, if she worked at it, have conquered the genetic parts of the boy that liked these activities.

When the boy dies will he still be a criminal?
Just after he dies, he will remember everything in his life and, although he will no longer have the genetics to support the bad things he did, he will have years and years of memories of doing these things and getting a positive dopamine rush.
I believe that after death, memories of life begin to fade until the soul is who the live person was at their core.

If the person become a ghost, they will closely resemble the person they were in life for a time but as the memories of life fade... so will their personalities in life.

That's what I think anyway.

I do wish to clarify that I do believe in both malevolent and benevolent NON-human entities.
I also think that if enough humans get together and believe in something for a long enough time... they can create a non-human entity. Many of these were worshiped at gods in ancient times.

[edit on 30-9-2009 by sisgood]

Originally posted by Before2017Victor
reply to post by KSPigpen

 

I was thinking that maybe 'evil' is only part of this the 3rd dimension.
It's learning ground.

Above that (4th, 5th...) we enter into the spiritual.

But, now I am thinking maybe the universe doesn't discriminate....maybe in other dimensions there are 'evil' souls/spirits....
I really don't know.

You might be better off thinking in terms of "Duality". We have created a world (a holographic theater may be a better description) where we have self-induced Duality -- we think of things in opposites: male vs. female, good vs. bad, war vs. peace, etc. We have also self-induced a disconnect from our Higher Selves and the knowing that every living thing in the Cosmos is connected by Prime Creator.

This holographic theater has essentially allowed us (for better or worse) to advance spiritually very fast. We have (had) the ability to create Heaven on Earth, but for eons we have mostly allowed Hell on Earth. But it was our choice (influenced by other forces, though, including the Reptilians). Really, we could create a Heaven on Earth right now, if we all basically lived by the Golden Rule. But we have allowed other people to support and take care of us both spiritually and physically (essentially giving our lives over to other entities).

When you allow government and other people and corporations to live your life for you, you have basically given up your capacity to connect with God and your Higher Self, other wise you would know that you are the one responsible for yourself.

When you allow the government and people and corporations to take over the health and care of your body, then you have basically given up your capacity to connect with God and your Higher Self, otherwise you would be in tune with your body and nature and be able to "Heal Thyself".

When you purchase "insurance", you have basically given up your capacity to connect with God and your Higher Self, otherwise you would know that there are no "accidents" in this holographic theater: everything is done to present you with opportunities to grow (or not) spiritually.

When you allow governments and others to conscript you into wars and other killings of humans or other sentient beings, you have given up your capacity to connect with God and your Higher Self, otherwise you would know we are ALL connected and to hurt another is to hurt yourself.

There is no Duality in the higher dimensions. There is no "good" vs. "bad", however there is The Light and The Dark: the Cosmos needs both to function. However there is more Light than Darkness. Everything that was created by God's energy essentially will return to that source. You maintain a "unique" soul energy pattern up to around the 10th dimension. Beyond that, you are essentially God energy doing his/her work.

As far a people like Hitler was concerned, he was "evil" on Earth, but before reincarnating on Earth, he/she was a Soul looking to experience what "evil" on Earth was all about. Because of Duality, we tend to try and experience the opposites in our learning. It is highly likely that in a previous life, "Hitler" was a Saint. And yes, many people died in the war(s). However, every one knew before they incarnated what they were trying to experience/learn, even those in the concentration camps.

God is not a hating entity, God is a loving entity. "Hitler" after death, did not get to the pearly gates and was sent to "Hell" (there is no Hell, unless we make it ourselves) because of what he did on Earth. In a perfect passing, the Soul would say something like, "Wow. I really was an Evil dictator!" but now I have learned those lessons presented to me in that life, and I am ready to move on towards the Light. However, there is also the chance that the person passing became so wrapped up in the negativity of the holographic theater, or created so much karma for themselves, that they ultimately need many incarnations to be able to move forward in Spirit.

In the higher dimensions (and some entities in the 3D realm), they do not have Duality. While there may be "Dark" entities/races, they do know about the Universal Laws and their impacts, both karmic and in manifestation. People always wonder why the "Illuminati" [fill in the blank for who/what you think is behind the problems of the world] always tell us what they are going to do before they do it. This is their way of lessening the karmic "backlash", so to speak. If they tell us what they are going to do, and "we" allow them to do it, then the problem is "ours" (literally and figuratively).


If the "real" you is your Soul (your Higher Self plus your God Spark), would you be "killed" if someone else made your current carcass non-functional? Does a caterpillar "kill" itself when it becomes a butterfly?

reply to post by KSPigpen

Hi,
When we think of Soul, we usually still think too small. Imagine a huge and powerful soul, pure aware energy, part of the One Source.

Imagine then the soul reaching out with thin strings of itself into various denser vibrating levels of awareness. One of those strings will empower the person we know as You.

If soul awareness is above duality then the choices, thoughts, words and actions created by You is what we would call Melevolent, and not the soul experiencing being You.

For the soul all is only experience, no judgements. We humans judge.

Other strings from the soul you are may choose different experiences, and some of those we could call Evil with our human judgement.

Just because we think it is does not make it so. We only see a part of the picture.

If we reincarnate it is believed that you come back to learn lessons in each lifetime, the soul chooses his parents, experiences, how he will die etc. I do believe that all souls are good but obviously forget that when inhabiting a body. Guess we don't know for sure until we pass over.

Originally posted by Aquarius1
If we reincarnate it is believed that you come back to learn lessons in each lifetime, the soul chooses his parents, experiences, how he will die etc. I do believe that all souls are good but obviously forget that when inhabiting a body. Guess we don't know for sure until we pass over.

It is my understanding, from my own channeled sources, that the process of reincarnation is actually fairly complicated behind the scenes. In our own terms, we might think of it as this: a Soul determines that they need to experience "X" (sometimes on earth, but not always) in an effort to advance themselves spiritually. The "plan" is submitted and reviewed by a group of higher dimensional beings, sometimes all the way up to Prime Creator. If OK'd (not every one can reincarnate at the same time on earth or the earth would be wall-to-wall people), the events proceed, but I don't think the individual Soul has control over the how, why and when.

On the other hand, we are all doing these things to advance our Souls, but for what? For Ascension, which is why 2012 is so important (and getting your spiritual act together before then as well).

I can say that my sources have clarified that there is no "evil" in the higher dimensions. "Evil" is a 3D manifestation, where so much negative energy exists in one thing that it takes on a form and has an awareness.

In the higher dimensions you have basically entities of the "Dark", "Neutral" and of the "LIght".

Dark does not mean evil. It means that the entity(s) have cut themselves off from God's love (typically because they feel they have done something in their past to cause them to think that God does NOT love them, and have not forgiven themselves).

A “Neutral” entity is one who is unsure of their beliefs. They do not allow themselves to feel God’s love, but they believe in God. There is no advantage to this—only sadness, for one does not rejoice in God’s love.

Hey fellas.

On malevolent souls.... i was recently reading this very disturbing book...
www.bibliotecapleyades.net...


Here´s Mike Rhyner’s review of War in Heaven in the February 1989 issue of Critique:

“War in Heaven is based on messages channeled from a group of extraterrestrial disembodied spirits who call themselves the Invisible College. They say that your soul is nourished on psychic energy generated during life, and when you ‘die,’ it lives off the energy stored up during embodiment. There are also spiritual beings that the Invisible College calls the Theocrats, the ‘bad guys,’ who do not reincarnate but instead get the energy needed to sustain their souls by sucking the energy from other souls: psychic vampirism and spiritual cannibalism.


“The Theocrats are the creators of certain forms of organized religion, which claim that you will have eternal life in Heaven when you pass over. They create an illusion of this Heaven in your mind by posing as gods, meanwhile giving you the after-death state that you expect, whether it is a Heaven or Hell or an eternal orgy. For instance, if you expect to go to ‘Rock ‘n’ Roll Heaven’ and worship at the feet of Elvis Presley or Jimi Hendrix, they will create this illusion for you. However, there are techniques you can use to avoid Theocratic entanglement after death, which are described in War in Heaven.


“Before I read War in Heaven, the more I studied various spiritual systems, the more disillusioned I became. My main paths had been Theosophy and its descendants, and the study of channeled messages of all kinds, particularly those from ‘Ascended Masters’ and ‘Space Brothers’. Each book I read in these fields claimed to teach the work of highly evolved beings, yet each contained glaring contradictions of the others. Then I read War in Heaven and found out why these contradictions occur – the authors don’t have an adequate theoretical frame of reference to correctly interpret the messages they channel, even though much of the raw information is perfectly valid.


“War in Heaven contains a revolutionary yet completely logical cosmology which provides such a frame of reference, and has answered questions that couldn’t be answered by any other spiritual system that I studied. Reading it did cause more questions to crop up in my mind, but most of them are answered by the time I finished the book.



The author says that the purpose of War in Heaven is to help readers make a major ‘Breakthrough in Consciousness,’ and after reading it, I know what he means. It may well be the most important book ever published.”

Its very disrtubing... When you see a kid praying to god, it is a whole brainwashing scheme to suck up her psychic energy and ready-to-canibalize her when she dies... yikes!

Another review:

“This self-published book is among the most fascinating, and most troubling, books I’ve read in some time. It is fascinating because it consists of channeled (i.e. automatically written) material that is not only clear and pointed but also flies in the face almost all other channeled teachings. And it’s troubling because to take Spiritual Revolution (SR) seriously entails entering into a topsy-turvy worldview that most of us would normally consider to be highly paranoid.


“Briefly put, the material in SR claims to emanate from a group of disembodied spirits informally called the ‘Invisible College.’ As one might guess from its name, this group says it was the force behind the development of groups such as the Freemasons and Rosicrucians. More surprising, however, is its claim to also have influenced the rise of the civil rights movement, the spread of '___', the anti-war movement, and even rock’n’roll. So far so good: if this were all, one could peg the ‘Invisible College’ as the hippest bunch of inner plane guides around, whispering bright ideas in the ears of the unsuspecting. However, there’s more.


“The group is apparently engaged in a ongoing struggle against another powerful conglomeration of inner plane spirits it calls ‘the Theocrats’. These types are apparently the ones behind most world religions, and, in fact, hang around churches and other places of worship soaking up the psychic energy that devout believers beam their way in prayer. These fiends are fond of meeting the newly deceased as they reach ‘the other side’ and ushering them into an illusory Heaven where their souls are gobbled up by the top Theocrats. In other words, according to SR, spiritual traditions, which teach love of God, and ultimately, union with the divine, are really scams run by the inner plane Theocrats to rip off psychic energy and souls. SR spells all this out in far more detail than I have space for here.


“Considering that most channeled messages sound like their spirit authors have been cribbing from each others’ notes, SR’s revelations about a “War in Heaven” stand out as decidedly unique… Spiritual Revolution is a startling book that makes one re-examine all of one’s spiritual assumptions… Considering that SR’s thesis undercuts the spiritual moorings of world civilization, there ought to be some heated discussions to come."

Well, i read the whole thing in 3 days... Its VERY paranoid... dont skip the first part... its very important of 'building up' the whole breakthrough.

If you match this with reptilian theory you can see the whole mess.

The chapter of elohim spirit is the most crazy i ever read. A god formed with 6 billion souls must be driven off to the void to consume stars???

Damn!



RP

reply to post by RobertPaulsim


Wow, thanks for that. Looks like I got some reading to do...


PEACE!!!