The Patriot Letters Continued: The Perfect Storm Awakening

reply to post by SGTChas


My poor little .22 plinker, my pride and joy, my baby, the very essence of my soul, has encountered difficulties which my yet prove to be unsurvivable. The culprit that put 'er there has "promised" to rectify the problem, or replace her, but how do you replace a dear child, one that you waited 20 years or so to lay hands on, and then built up to your own satisfaction?

Anyhow, my .72 cal "Bar gun" is still in service (12 ga for the purists among us, but that just don't describe the versatility of her), so I'm still locked and loaded.

I hear rumors around the boards of nefarious goings on in Montana and Oklahoma even as we speak. Something along the lines of Keystone cops invading and taking over small towns, exercising "authority" they just don't have, unless the populace rolls over and allows it. Anybody got any sort of confirmation on the OK situation? I only have vague rumors so far.

I think they've been backed down a bit in MT. Isn't OK where that FEMA Domestic Terrorist report issued from, or was that MO?

Strange days we live in.

I vetted out the MT outfit, they appear to be legitimately illegitimate, trying to stay under the radar while maintaining a business footing. Claims of government contracts, without any visible government records of it, their main office in DC is a "virtual office" that they never completed the application for, and their main east coast phone line traces back to a land line in DC, but unlisted. What kind of legitimate business has an unlisted main phone number? Last outfit I worked for had an unlisted "backline" for employee commo, but the main line was right up front. Anyhow, I've never heard of these guys before, but the Serbian Eagle on their trademark is a bit disconcerting. Funny how that double-headed eagle just turns up now and again.

Nothing really serious looking about them other than some staged photos, which I could replicate using my 14 year old son and equipment that I've got on hand, so, nice cars or not, I don't see them as any sort of serious threat to serious folk. One troubling rumor is that they have "experience" with quarantines and forced vaccinations, but that's unconfirmed, and I have no idea WHERE they would have gotten such experience. The cover story is that they're there to activate an empty prison to transfer the Gitmo prisoners to, and set up a training yard for the local constabulary. That may be all there is to it, and they just overstepped their boundaries, as boys will do from time to time.

It's getting on towards October, isn't it?

reply to post by SGTChas


Chas no one from the REPUBLIC of Texas will ever get upset by someone from the COMMONWEALTH of Virginia. We know better than that.

Fortunately for us all even you have a firm and authoritative grasp and understanding of freedom and the principles of a Republic as well as first hand experience defining and defending those principles.

I will also give you full credit that you have the utmost experience with firearms. All that being said a ".22" as you put it traveling at 3000 feet per second can just as easily kill someone as your beloved M1 especially considering my AR has an extra 22 rounds to do it with before having to change the magazine.

Back around to my original point though, those are hardly what I would call "mountains" in W.V.

Until they are high enough to be above the treeline, I will call them large hills.

reply to post by Anonymous Avatar


It's common knowledge locally that one must lie flat on one's back at high noon in those hills just to find the sun, and only on the higher elevations does breathing become laborious, so I'd call 'em ideal, but I'm prejudiced in the matter. About as high as they get anywhere in the chain is around 6000 feet. Beartown Mountain, near my alma mater, DOES stick it head above the treeline, but is only 4608 feet ASL.

Fact is, that hiding out for ANYONE is best done in the terrain they are most familiar with. Personally, I'm best in them there hills, and were I to find myself in a desert, or on the Texas plains, I'd most likely be completely surrounded by locals afore I knew it.

Doesn't mean we can't learn the terrain post haste though, does it? Something about having folks hunting for you, and the possibility of them shooting at you, is a wonderful motivator in the quest for such knowledge.

On the .22 controversy, I'm with ya, bro! I used to have the same discussion at length with folks. Still do with a jarhead buddy of mine. I ain't seen nothing in them hills yet that I'd be afraid to shoot with a .22 LR, so much more so with a .22 with a little more OOMPH.

Had a liberal friend of mine weigh in on the conversation once years ago, and after listening to the battle rage for a few minutes, he looked at the fella arguing for .308, and said "you're overcompensating for a lack of sizeable 'equipment'". I laughed, and said "what does my stand for small bore say about me, professor?" He thought a minute - way too short of a minute - and said "just means your well-adjusted to your shortcomings".

The main thing in this argument, I would think, would be shot placement. As Jeff Cooper once said, a solid hit with a .22 Stinger is a lot more discouraging than a loud miss with a .44 magnum. .308's come into their own in wide open spaces, without much brush, because they carry a lot further, and handle the longer ranges better. In the semi-jungle of them thar hills, range isn't so much an issue. .308 will punch through more brush, with less deflection, assuming you're shooting at something you can't see because brush is in the way, but that ain't always a good idea. I've got photos here somewhere of a little tree I shot down with my dinky little mouse gun, so I don't worry about that so much. Those high velocity zippers will sure make a mess out of a target if they DO hit it.

The USMC messed up the .223 round by trying to make a long range rifle out of it, increasing the rifling to 1:7 from 1:12, which over-stabilized the bullet, and increasing the bullet weight to 62 gr (SS109) from 55 gr (M193). Net result was that it didn't cut it as a long range round, and the close range value was negated. Ask anyone that was in Mogadishu. That new and "improved" M16 just bored little holes straight through, without causing the massive trauma, and the opposition would keep on coming, failing to realize they were dead.

My off-shore baby still has unstable bullets, which do a fine, traumatic job, but they're getting harder to find, since they all have to be imported. Afghans called 'em "poison bullets" for good cause.

Everything has strong and weak points, I'll just hang with what I'm most comfortable, and familiar, with.

reply to post by Anonymous Avatar


"Ever hear the one about some Virginians meeting a delegation from Texas at the airport?

It seems that when the gangway was dropped, and all the Texans started marching out, they were all only about 4-6 inches tall.

One Virginian looked at the other, and said "I thought everything was bigger in Texas?"

The other replies, "Those Texans have just had all the bull ---- knocked out of 'em""

Contributed by an observer...

Just playing... But it is an M1A1 National Match (M14), which has 20 rd clips as well as thirty - BUT I ONLY NEED '1'!

reply to post by nenothtu


No doubt it is defensible and ideal for hiding out. As far getting my good friend the Virginian all riled up, calling them hills is quite appropriate.

As far as the locals go, I think we can all agree the West Virginians are of a different caliber. I have seen what one might call "red neck" being I am from Texas, but I was still in awe with the people in West Virginia.

reply to post by SGTChas


My jarhead friend was going to loan me an M14a1 with a folding stock that he'd somehow acquired to "carry" at the war games. I hefted it, and decided after a day or so "carry" was going to turn into "drag", as in "telephone pole", and declined. Those things are heavier than necessary, but man, they'll reach out and touch someone!

At least it wasn't that damnable M1919A4 he's setting up in his technical! Took 2 of 'em to drag that thing through the woods at a dead run last time out, and several bruises about the knees were acquired by all in the effort.

I hear cattle cars are on the move north from near OKC. Don't know if it's just a rumor or not. Claimed to be an eyewitness report.

Here's a link you might want to look at for grins-n-giggles. Supposed to be a faction of the opposition:

Linky

They're the ones in Montana that I spoke of earlier. Keystone Kops. Might be a feint to distract from the insertion of the real threat, 'cause I can't see such a fly-by-night outfit as a real threat. Reminds me of a "mercenary" outfit I checked with in western NC. Lotsa bark, no bite. Too much bragging and big talk, no record of any "DO" at all.

Originally posted by Anonymous Avatar
reply to post by nenothtu

 

No doubt it is defensible and ideal for hiding out. As far getting my good friend the Virginian all riled up, calling them hills is quite appropriate.

As far as the locals go, I think we can all agree the West Virginians are of a different caliber. I have seen what one might call "red neck" being I am from Texas, but I was still in awe with the people in West Virginia.

My dear old dad was a West Virginian, and I'm tellin' ya, the man was SCARY, even to me. Maybe ESPECIALLY to me

I've still got lots of friends and family there, and I'll tell you true, every one of 'em is a LOT meaner than me. Those folks don't play. Makes me wonder how the feds and TPTB ever got such a toehold in the area. By that I mean you should think "Rockefeller", together with the knowledge that I recently spent several fun-filled hours on the phone with an ATF facililty at Martinsburg which I never even knew existed, in a quest for records. Evidently their main dead-record office is located there, and my records verifying ownership were moved to it when a local business went belly-up.

I wonder how well they do out in the hinterlands, or if they even venture into the hinterlands? Folks from "my" part of the state report no unusual activity, but other areas are not so fortunate. Pockets of opposition factions seem to be making a show of force in various areas (not just WV), and the natives are getting restless. We get around half of the news from news media (ALL of which is suspect), and the rest travels along the grapevine telegraph, some of which is also suspect.

Some folks are still not jacked-in to the grapevine telegraph. Gotta fix that. I never have liked being behind the 8 ball, trying to peep around the side of it.

Originally posted by nenothtu


The USMC messed up the .223 round by trying to make a long range rifle out of it, increasing the rifling to 1:7 from 1:12, which over-stabilized the bullet, and increasing the bullet weight to 62 gr (SS109) from 55 gr (M193). Net result was that it didn't cut it as a long range round, and the close range value was negated. Ask anyone that was in Mogadishu. That new and "improved" M16 just bored little holes straight through, without causing the massive trauma, and the opposition would keep on coming, failing to realize they were dead.

First off brother, the Corps doesn't "mess up". (hehe) Just wanted to clarify that point...

I wonder if I can "convert" you to a new ".22" of similar off-shore pedigree, with a chrome lined 1:9.5 bbl? My ".22" is that same ratio, and I'm running 62 and 75gr. with just about 2-3 moa consistantly at 100. That's in the vitals every time in my book...

Just a thought.

I will agree to the "pass through" assessment on the A-2's with the SS109's though, and my shoulder is living proof of it. Good thing I got hit by a "liberated" -16, as opposed to an AK, or I'd be typing with one hand!

My off-shore baby still has unstable bullets, which do a fine, traumatic job, but they're getting harder to find, since they all have to be imported. Afghans called 'em "poison bullets" for good cause.

Everything has strong and weak points, I'll just hang with what I'm most comfortable, and familiar, with.

I know... I know you miss her... Seems alot of us here on this forum are in love with Russians. I'll have to introduce you to the joy the Izhmash works offers.

Yes- that's tongue in cheek Sarge. Just different Russians...

As for WV, anyreal Virginians I know declare the residents of that "state" to be nothing more than "damn Yankee traitors", right?

Plus that jackass David Rockefeller is "from" WV, another damn Yankee traitor...

[edit on 30/9/09 by cbianchi513]

I think one thing that needs to be done is a media boycott. What if people turned their radios, TV's and computers off? Blot out the media. They'd have no way of spreading their case. What if ALL the American people boycotted the next election or showed up in droves to protest, not vote?

Originally posted by cbianchi513

I wonder if I can "convert" you to a new ".22" of similar off-shore pedigree, with a chrome lined 1:9.5 bbl? My ".22" is that same ratio, and I'm running 62 and 75gr. with just about 2-3 moa consistantly at 100. That's in the vitals every time in my book...

Just a thought.

and

I know... I know you miss her... Seems alot of us here on this forum are in love with Russians. I'll have to introduce you to the joy the Izhmash works offers.

I'm hearing .223 Saiga. Probably a better choice than I made from a resupply viewpoint, but then Suchka was never intended to be pressed into service, she was just for fun, but got drafted. Nostalgia does funny things to old men.

As for WV, anyreal Virginians I know declare the residents of that "state" to be nothing more than "damn Yankee traitors", right?

Plus that jackass David Rockefeller is "from" WV, another damn Yankee traitor...

WV is a different state than VA? When did THAT happen? Why wasn't I informed? WHO authorized it? I'm sure that can't be legal...

RE David Rockefeller and his ilk (Jay too): I'm glad you put "from" in quotes. Them boys ain't "from" WV. Ain't nothing rich EVER cone from WV except the minerals those Rockefellers lined their bank accounts with. Can you say "carpetbaggers"? Sure, I KNEW you could! A Rockefeller wouldn't amount to a pimple on a REAL West Virginian's behind. I can't for the life of me figure out how they remain on the sunny side of the sod.

WV is not a separate state, it's just the western part of VA under separate management. Richmond never OK'ed the transfer, and the feds weren't legally allowed to.

reply to post by SGTChas

Sarge, if you're surrounded with Marines, it's what you call a mixed blessing.

Those Marines are real handy in shooting matters, but when they get started on their "Beloved Corps," they're harder to take than a foot-long suppository.

'Bout them Texans. Had one in every outfit I served in. Attached to a company, and this boy from Texas got shot. Right in the left cheek, and the bullet went out his other cheek. Didn't slow him down during the firefight, but looked Godawful.

Later, the Medic was examining him and declared, "Only a guy from Texas can get shot plumb through the mouth, and his mouth is so big, nothing got hit!"

And never tell a Marine the odds. You point out that you're outnumbered four to one, and that Marine will not bat an eye, and tell you, "that's alright. I done got my four."

Now for those of you from Texas, or Virginia, or any other lesser station such as compared to myself, I do hold you gentlemen in regard, as your points of origin, as Momma always reminded me, are not your fault.

Now is it true that up in those mountains the cows have long legs on one side and short legs on the other so's they can graze around the mountains?


[edit on 1-10-2009 by dooper]

Originally posted by nenothtu
I'm hearing .223 Saiga. Probably a better choice than I made from a resupply viewpoint, but then Suchka was never intended to be pressed into service, she was just for fun, but got drafted. Nostalgia does funny things to old men.

Roger that neno... Just remember that you heard it from a jarhead first. Got one in .223 and 7.62 for good measure. A bit of modification and you're holding a real Russian -101 or -103 series from the same assembly line as the combat models. They eat anything you feed 'em, and especially like the steel case Wolf. Best part is they're under $400 shipped, conversion parts for under $100. I'd like to see a WASR of like quality (doesn't exist) for a like price. The closest is a VEPR, and we all know how those things went through the roof!

They just released a 5.45 if you're feeling that nostalgic, and you can easily find plum furniture at KVar or like sites... I won't bore you with the details here on the forum, you know how to get ahold of me.

Did I mention they also make 12, 20, and .410 on the same Kalashnikov platform? Whoa.

Gonna throw some smud under the dust cover next range trip and put 30 through the pipe to show those AR boys who's king of the range... Hehe.

[edit on 1/10/09 by cbianchi513]

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by SGTChas

 

Sarge, if you're surrounded with Marines, it's what you call a mixed blessing.

You'll have to excuse the Sarge, sometimes he gets in his cups and waxes poetic about what misguided scum us poor innocent gyrines are...

And never tell a Marine the odds. You point out that you're outnumbered four to one, and that Marine will not bat an eye, and tell you, "that's alright. I done got my four."

Reminds me of a quote you used in your book, but I'll share for the benefit of all:

"All right, they're in front of us, they're behind us, they're to our left, and they're to our right... They can't get away this time!"

Gen. Lewis "Chesty" Puller, CO 1MARDIV, at the "frozen Chosin".

At least us teufelhunden are useful for something...

Why not a constitutional convention? When the forefathers didn't like the way the federal government was being run, when the Articles of Confederation were flawed, they simply called for the convention. Delegates from every state went and rewrote the law. The congress was still in session and in many cases the delegates at the convention were not even members of congress, although they were typically popular leaders from their respective states.

Still, it is a peaceful resolution and was prescribed for already and worked once in our history.

Why not simply begin demanding a constitutional convention?

Edit: It took only a decade or so to see we didn't like the weak government that was created, it took 200 years to realize we don't like the overpowering strength of this one, perhaps we'll zone in and get it right the next time around and like them for the next 1000 years the next time around.

[edit on 1-10-2009 by memarf1]

reply to post by memarf1


We have the "Declaration 2009" and we have a whole lot of articulate ATS members. We have a populace crying out for a leader that has their best interest at heart, and is not part of TPTB or the Washington "in" crowd. We have the makings of a Revolution. We have the support of Putin and Medvedev (although their motivations are suspect!). We have all the key components of "change" that make it necessary and beneficial.

So, I second your suggestion! Let's call together a meeting of the minds, and lets lay out the groundwork for a new government that is based upon the Original Constitution and Bill of Rights, accounts for new technology and Equality, learns from the mistakes of the past 200 years, and provides a framework for the future!!

reply to post by memarf1


Wouldn't a Constitutional Convention imply that there's something wrong with the original Constitution?

I think the one we have would work just fine, if we could get those buzzards in DC to read it, understand it, and FOLLOW it, rather than ignore it as is the current vogue, and has been for a while.

No, we don't need new paper, we need new servants - ones that will serve this time.

If the guy who cuts my grass won't listen to how I want it done, he gets fired. How is a politician different in that respect?

Originally posted by dooper

Now is it true that up in those mountains the cows have long legs on one side and short legs on the other so's they can graze around the mountains?

Don't know about the cows, but my dear old dad once went to the doctor and found out one of HIS legs was 2" shorter than the other.

I avoid doctors on that account.

And what makes you so arrogant to presume that the conservative right are the only true Americans and patriots?

Those of us on the left love our country too...we just disagree on how best to proceed but that in no way diminishes our patriotism.

Think about it for once will ya.

Originally posted by grover
And what makes you so arrogant to presume that the conservative right are the only true Americans and patriots?

Those of us on the left love our country too...we just disagree on how best to proceed but that in no way diminishes our patriotism.

Think about it for once will ya.

That is why we need a meeting of the minds! I am not strictly Conservative or Republican. I am all for Environmental concerns, and Human Rights, and Equality. I voted for Bush and then Obama! I would never have voted for Gore or Hillary or McCain. I would have loved to vote for Ron Paul, or Rand Paul, or Kucinich.

So, we have all these third parties that want to fix the government. And, we have all these people that claim to be Dems or Reps and hate the other side. We have all these social and economic and foreign relation problems. LETS FIX THEM, BEFORE THE FIX BECOMES BLOODY!

I am not criticizing Liberals, typically I don't agree with them, but I welcome the input. I am not criticizing staunch Conservatives, typically they are not forward looking, and I feel that is a necessity. I am certainly criticizing all of the whiners, and boob-tube crowd that takes the spoon-fed press and regurgitates it as an argument! I am definitely criticizing 99% of the people in government or upper level corporate management! I am definitely criticizing the people that hung up a Census worker, blew up the towers, and the OKC building. I don't know who those people are, but I know their methods failed, and innocent people died.

We need to lay out a clear agenda, follow the process of implementing the principles of the agenda, and let the pieces fall where they may! I refuse to Begin a Revolution prematurely, but I promise to Violently and Successfully defend my personal liberties, and the prosperity of this nation! Lets do it the right way, and if some other entity escalates it to a violent confrontation, then we can justifiably take the measures that some many people here are calling for!

Originally posted by nenothtu
reply to post by memarf1

 

Wouldn't a Constitutional Convention imply that there's something wrong with the original Constitution?

I think the one we have would work just fine, if we could get those buzzards in DC to read it, understand it, and FOLLOW it, rather than ignore it as is the current vogue, and has been for a while.

No, we don't need new paper, we need new servants - ones that will serve this time.

If the guy who cuts my grass won't listen to how I want it done, he gets fired. How is a politician different in that respect?

Yes, I would say that the constitution wasn't flawed but over time the language has become obsolete. The language is important because now the rock seems to have softened and lawyers and attorneys argue and manipulate it's meaning. We need a meeting of the minds, we need to rewrite the constitution in the language of today making sure to make it immovable and understandable. The new one needs to take into account new technology, new language, and new rights that our founders could never have imagined may exist, for example our right to an unadulterated internet.

Remember, the constitution provides for just such a meeting and rewrite, it not only provides it but we were at some point in our history encouraged to use that right.

Our current leaders are corrupt, but I argue that they too are victims of a corrupt system that forced otherwise ideological people with an intent to fix or change for the better and corrupted them. Very few start off corrupt, but I have heard it argued that after 1, or maybe for the stronger leaders 2, term in office they too are corrupted. They are not corrupted by their own mind, but by the system itself. The corruption of the game leads to the corruption of the players.

Yes, it is flawed, lets meet, lets exercise our constitutionally guaranteed rights, and lets fix it!

A MEETING OF THE MINDS 2009 OR 2010! BEFORE THINGS GET BLOODY!

Remember, even the most immovable stones erode with nothing more than time.

[edit on 1-10-2009 by memarf1]