We want war! We want war!

Originally posted by stevegmu
Bombing Iran wouldn't cost more than a couple $billion. That could come out of what has not been spent in the 'stimulus' bill. Or, we could cut foreign aid to Pakistan.

[edit on 26-9-2009 by stevegmu]

A couple billion And I bet it would only take a week, right? Where did we hear that before? We can call it Shock and Awe 2.0

Just do it already, start a 3rd war and put your economy out of it's misery and then complain about it after endorsing it going in like we had the last two times.

Normally I just lurk around threads like this, mostly because the level of discourse is ridiculous at best. But the level of stupidity shown in many of these posts just cries out for some common sense and perspective. (sorry Mods for the stupidity comment).

A) It is important to this discussion to note, that the country of Iran has not attacked another nation in over 300 years! There are few of the so called civilized nations that can make this boast. Israel has attacked all of it's neighbors multiple times.

B) It is illegal under the UN Charter, which the US supposedly signed in good faith, to attack another nation unless they have attacked you first. See Iraq and Afghanistan.

The US should still be tried under international law for these crimes, and the deaths of millions of innocent people. After all, the wars in these countries were predicated on a series of blatant lies. I won't even get into the torture of the detainees, which goes against all Geneva Conventions.

C) Since when did people become so cavalier about war? I have seen some of the most callous comments supporting an attack against Iran, without any regard for the innocent people that are sure to be killed so Iran can be punished for nuclear weapons they don't even have yet, if they ever get them at all.

D) Is not the potential deaths of your brave service men and women, cause for even the slightest pause from you armchair warriors? Have you not become sick and tired of your soldiers coming home without limbs, minds shattered, or worse, in a flag draped coffin?

E) If this attack of Iran can be justified by potentially wanting nuclear weapons, who BTW has signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation treaty, what about the nation of Israel, which has upwards of 200 undeclared nuclear weapons and has not signed the NPT???? Why the blatant double standard?

F) In order to be useful for a nuclear weapon, uranium must be enriched to over 90%, and the International Atomic Commission has said catagoricaly that Iran has only been able to achieve an enrichment rate of 5%. Seems they have a long way to go...

To finish of my rant (I could go on, but I trust that you get my point), I see absolutely no justification for attacking Iran.

Add all this to the fact that America is broke, already has two wars that are unfinished and lack any kind of exit strategy, and it leaves one wondering, as the OP said "would you be willing to pay for it?" and more to the point, how could you pay for it? The US is borrowing trillions of dollars to fund the two wars it already has, and sooner or later the easy credit that you have enjoyed is going to be ended. But ask yourselves this...other than making a few big US corporations even more money, what have these wars proved? What has been achieved? What have you REALLY been fighting and dying for?

It is high time that Americans started to look at themselves and ask themselves if they really like what they have become as a nation. Ask yourselves why you are allowing Israel to push you into this ill advised conflict?

War, regardless of the monetary cost, costs the lives of people. This more than anything, should be the cost that should be discussed. Doesn't that say something about how misplaced our priorities are? I leave you to find your own truth...

I love ATS but the posters on here drive me crazy when it comes to talking about a "potential" strike on a country and then immediately go the Iraq/Afghanistan route.

The US (or the UK, Farnce etc as they are all talking about it). Can taske out Irans nuclear infrastructure without ever putting a boot on the ground.

Taking out key installations in a country and trying to change a regime are COMPLETELY different objectives and require COMPLETELY differing strategies, resources etc.

Originally posted by deadcalm
Normally I just lurk around threads like this, mostly because the level of discourse is ridiculous at best. But the level of stupidity shown in many of these posts just cries out for some common sense and perspective. (sorry Mods for the stupidity comment).

A) It is important to this discussion to note, that the country of Iran has not attacked another nation in over 300 years! There are few of the so called civilized nations that can make this boast. Israel has attacked all of it's neighbors multiple times.

B) It is illegal under the UN Charter, which the US supposedly signed in good faith, to attack another nation unless they have attacked you first. See Iraq and Afghanistan.

The US should still be tried under international law for these crimes, and the deaths of millions of innocent people. After all, the wars in these countries were predicated on a series of blatant lies. I won't even get into the torture of the detainees, which goes against all Geneva Conventions.

C) Since when did people become so cavalier about war? I have seen some of the most callous comments supporting an attack against Iran, without any regard for the innocent people that are sure to be killed so Iran can be punished for nuclear weapons they don't even have yet, if they ever get them at all.

D) Is not the potential deaths of your brave service men and women, cause for even the slightest pause from you armchair warriors? Have you not become sick and tired of your soldiers coming home without limbs, minds shattered, or worse, in a flag draped coffin?

E) If this attack of Iran can be justified by potentially wanting nuclear weapons, who BTW has signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation treaty, what about the nation of Israel, which has upwards of 200 undeclared nuclear weapons and has not signed the NPT???? Why the blatant double standard?

F) In order to be useful for a nuclear weapon, uranium must be enriched to over 90%, and the International Atomic Commission has said catagoricaly that Iran has only been able to achieve an enrichment rate of 5%. Seems they have a long way to go...

To finish of my rant (I could go on, but I trust that you get my point), I see absolutely no justification for attacking Iran.

Add all this to the fact that America is broke, already has two wars that are unfinished and lack any kind of exit strategy, and it leaves one wondering, as the OP said "would you be willing to pay for it?" and more to the point, how could you pay for it? The US is borrowing trillions of dollars to fund the two wars it already has, and sooner or later the easy credit that you have enjoyed is going to be ended. But ask yourselves this...other than making a few big US corporations even more money, what have these wars proved? What has been achieved?

What have you REALLY been fighting and dying for?

It is high time that Americans started to look at themselves and ask themselves if they really like what they have become as a nation. Ask yourselves why you are allowing Israel to push you into this ill advised conflict?

War, regardless of the monetary cost, costs the lives of people. This more than anything, should be the cost that should be discussed. Doesn't that say something about how misplaced our priorities are? I leave you to find your own truth...

Originally posted by Solomons
reply to post by hangedman13

 

Then you can bomb Israel for having illegal nuclear weapons and breaking many international laws.I mean,your keen to bomb Iran for maybe trying to obtain illegal nuclear weapons and breaking international laws.Seems Israel is actually top priority! Don't worry i already know what the reply will be,cherry picking is a good past time.I don't know what american public opinion is but i don't think it would be high when it comes to a war right now for some reason....

Why don't you go to Israel, find a nice coffee shop, have a cup or two and wait on the next coward piece of # suicide bomber to walk in and blow it up. I hope you survive and see the chaos. Then you report back to this crazy site and then tell me again what you think about Israel. All they want is piece with those maniacs. That's all!

Eye of Eagle

reply to post by deadcalm


deadcalm, I'm sure it's just a typo, but let's make sure we get this accurate.

Israel has been ATTACKED by all it's neighbors.

Israel has not done the attacking.

When I read something so blatantly wrong, I have a strong tendency to disregard everything else that is said.

After all, if one thing is complete BS, then how am I to discern the BS in the other statements.

I watched an Iranian advocate on Channel 4 news the other night, I can't describe the amount of derision and contempt he showed for the West once he was a bit rattled by the interviewer. He basically sat there, sneering, saying we are weak and powerless to stop them. It really was like listening to Doctor Evil.

I don't want war with Iran. War is awful. People get killed. Most people are kind and decent and don't deserve that.

But I don't want the Iranian theocracy to have nukes. They despise the West (and USA / Britain are at the top of their sh*t list), they are reckless, they sponsor terrorism around the world, and they have no compassion for their civilian population. All in all I'd say that's a very dangerous mix.

I want my government and other governments of free countries to stand up together and say No.

I hope they can achieve that with tough talking, but I suspect the Mullahs will laugh in their faces. In which case, I hope they can back up their threats with action. If not, we may as well all start learning Persian and getting directions to the nearest mosque.

And yes, I'm prepared to pay for it if that's what it comes to.

"Normally I just lurk around threads like this, mostly because the level of discourse is ridiculous at best. But the level of stupidity shown in many of these posts just cries out for some common sense and perspective. (sorry Mods for the stupidity comment).

A) It is important to this discussion to note, that the country of Iran has not attacked another nation in over 300 years! There are few of the so called civilized nations that can make this boast. Israel has attacked all of it's neighbors multiple times."

You just lumped yourself in with those in the first paragraph with your second. I recommend something in a history book. Found at most Barnes & Nobles or your local book store downtown. Seriously. Look into it.

yes i agree but where could this all be coming from?

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by deadcalm

 

deadcalm, I'm sure it's just a typo, but let's make sure we get this accurate.

Israel has been ATTACKED by all it's neighbors.

Israel has not done the attacking.

When I read something so blatantly wrong, I have a strong tendency to disregard everything else that is said.

After all, if one thing is complete BS, then how am I to discern the BS in the other statements.

If someone shows up in your house with a gun, and orders you out - and then just starts living in your house, maybe taking your wife or girlfriend as well - if you fight, is that attacking? If you bring your neighbors to throw the guy out - is that aggression?

No its defense - and that is what happened to Israel - the Arabs tried to defend their neighbor, and their own land from illegal trespassers.

I never seen anyone who made a better NWO grunt than you drooper - you are a mindless tool - ready to buy into any 'external threat' fantasy your owners might push at you. I am surprised if you can even spell propaganda - you sure as hell don't know when your consuming it.

Like a child scared of the dark, you huddle in your little world filled with imagined terrors - and the MSM scares you with noises in the dark - and you want to lash out in fear ..

Originally posted by woodwardjnr

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by Jazzyguy

 

Am I willing to pay for it?

We've already paid for it. All those nice, shiny, expensive missiles and very expensive payloads are all bought and paid for.

And there is no way in hell you have to resort to conventional warfare. No way.

A handful of high-impact weapons, a couple nuclear EMP's, then you roll the bombers in for a couple of weeks, and go home.

Tell them - and others - this proliferation will not be tolerated.

End of story.

It's this type of talking that really makes me want to vomit. this attitude to war. it's wrong. you forget about the women and children who will perish having bombers for "a couple of weeks". Bombers raining down bombs on a city and a country that hasn't invaded another country in 300 years.

If I cant appeal to you heart then maybe to your head.. what type of aftermath for the rest of the world can we expect from bombing Iran. The economy, oil prices, global terrorism. ALL will become much much worse

No kidding, people spew war rhetoric as if real lives are not involved.

Killing in the name of.. Is most always enthusiastically justified by those least affected.

Cowards who either send other people to fight their battles, or keyboard warriors that blindly cheer death, suffering and destruction because some clowns on television said it was the morally justified thing to do.

People are so easy to program..

Nationalism is just an excuse to hate people you never met, and take pride in accomplishments you had nothing to do with - Doug Stanhope