Originally posted by stevegmu
Bombing Iran wouldn't cost more than a couple $billion. That could come out of what has not been spent in the 'stimulus' bill. Or, we could cut foreign aid to Pakistan.

[edit on 26-9-2009 by stevegmu]

A couple billion And I bet it would only take a week, right? Where did we hear that before? We can call it Shock and Awe 2.0

Just do it already, start a 3rd war and put your economy out of it's misery and then complain about it after endorsing it going in like we had the last two times.

Normally I just lurk around threads like this, mostly because the level of discourse is ridiculous at best. But the level of stupidity shown in many of these posts just cries out for some common sense and perspective. (sorry Mods for the stupidity comment).

A) It is important to this discussion to note, that the country of Iran has not attacked another nation in over 300 years! There are few of the so called civilized nations that can make this boast. Israel has attacked all of it's neighbors multiple times.

B) It is illegal under the UN Charter, which the US supposedly signed in good faith, to attack another nation unless they have attacked you first. See Iraq and Afghanistan.

The US should still be tried under international law for these crimes, and the deaths of millions of innocent people. After all, the wars in these countries were predicated on a series of blatant lies. I won't even get into the torture of the detainees, which goes against all Geneva Conventions.

C) Since when did people become so cavalier about war? I have seen some of the most callous comments supporting an attack against Iran, without any regard for the innocent people that are sure to be killed so Iran can be punished for nuclear weapons they don't even have yet, if they ever get them at all.

D) Is not the potential deaths of your brave service men and women, cause for even the slightest pause from you armchair warriors? Have you not become sick and tired of your soldiers coming home without limbs, minds shattered, or worse, in a flag draped coffin?

E) If this attack of Iran can be justified by potentially wanting nuclear weapons, who BTW has signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation treaty, what about the nation of Israel, which has upwards of 200 undeclared nuclear weapons and has not signed the NPT???? Why the blatant double standard?

F) In order to be useful for a nuclear weapon, uranium must be enriched to over 90%, and the International Atomic Commission has said catagoricaly that Iran has only been able to achieve an enrichment rate of 5%. Seems they have a long way to go...

To finish of my rant (I could go on, but I trust that you get my point), I see absolutely no justification for attacking Iran.

Add all this to the fact that America is broke, already has two wars that are unfinished and lack any kind of exit strategy, and it leaves one wondering, as the OP said "would you be willing to pay for it?" and more to the point, how could you pay for it? The US is borrowing trillions of dollars to fund the two wars it already has, and sooner or later the easy credit that you have enjoyed is going to be ended. But ask yourselves this...other than making a few big US corporations even more money, what have these wars proved? What has been achieved? What have you REALLY been fighting and dying for?

It is high time that Americans started to look at themselves and ask themselves if they really like what they have become as a nation. Ask yourselves why you are allowing Israel to push you into this ill advised conflict?

War, regardless of the monetary cost, costs the lives of people. This more than anything, should be the cost that should be discussed. Doesn't that say something about how misplaced our priorities are? I leave you to find your own truth...

I love ATS but the posters on here drive me crazy when it comes to talking about a "potential" strike on a country and then immediately go the Iraq/Afghanistan route.

The US (or the UK, Farnce etc as they are all talking about it). Can taske out Irans nuclear infrastructure without ever putting a boot on the ground.

Taking out key installations in a country and trying to change a regime are COMPLETELY different objectives and require COMPLETELY differing strategies, resources etc.

Originally posted by deadcalm
Normally I just lurk around threads like this, mostly because the level of discourse is ridiculous at best. But the level of stupidity shown in many of these posts just cries out for some common sense and perspective. (sorry Mods for the stupidity comment).

A) It is important to this discussion to note, that the country of Iran has not attacked another nation in over 300 years! There are few of the so called civilized nations that can make this boast. Israel has attacked all of it's neighbors multiple times.

B) It is illegal under the UN Charter, which the US supposedly signed in good faith, to attack another nation unless they have attacked you first. See Iraq and Afghanistan.

The US should still be tried under international law for these crimes, and the deaths of millions of innocent people. After all, the wars in these countries were predicated on a series of blatant lies. I won't even get into the torture of the detainees, which goes against all Geneva Conventions.

C) Since when did people become so cavalier about war? I have seen some of the most callous comments supporting an attack against Iran, without any regard for the innocent people that are sure to be killed so Iran can be punished for nuclear weapons they don't even have yet, if they ever get them at all.

D) Is not the potential deaths of your brave service men and women, cause for even the slightest pause from you armchair warriors? Have you not become sick and tired of your soldiers coming home without limbs, minds shattered, or worse, in a flag draped coffin?

E) If this attack of Iran can be justified by potentially wanting nuclear weapons, who BTW has signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation treaty, what about the nation of Israel, which has upwards of 200 undeclared nuclear weapons and has not signed the NPT???? Why the blatant double standard?

F) In order to be useful for a nuclear weapon, uranium must be enriched to over 90%, and the International Atomic Commission has said catagoricaly that Iran has only been able to achieve an enrichment rate of 5%. Seems they have a long way to go...

To finish of my rant (I could go on, but I trust that you get my point), I see absolutely no justification for attacking Iran.

Add all this to the fact that America is broke, already has two wars that are unfinished and lack any kind of exit strategy, and it leaves one wondering, as the OP said "would you be willing to pay for it?" and more to the point, how could you pay for it? The US is borrowing trillions of dollars to fund the two wars it already has, and sooner or later the easy credit that you have enjoyed is going to be ended. But ask yourselves this...other than making a few big US corporations even more money, what have these wars proved? What has been achieved? What have you REALLY been fighting and dying for?

It is high time that Americans started to look at themselves and ask themselves if they really like what they have become as a nation. Ask yourselves why you are allowing Israel to push you into this ill advised conflict?

War, regardless of the monetary cost, costs the lives of people. This more than anything, should be the cost that should be discussed. Doesn't that say something about how misplaced our priorities are? I leave you to find your own truth...

I watched an Iranian advocate on Channel 4 news the other night, I can't describe the amount of derision and contempt he showed for the West once he was a bit rattled by the interviewer. He basically sat there, sneering, saying we are weak and powerless to stop them. It really was like listening to Doctor Evil.

I don't want war with Iran. War is awful. People get killed. Most people are kind and decent and don't deserve that.

But I don't want the Iranian theocracy to have nukes. They despise the West (and USA / Britain are at the top of their sh*t list), they are reckless, they sponsor terrorism around the world, and they have no compassion for their civilian population. All in all I'd say that's a very dangerous mix.

I want my government and other governments of free countries to stand up together and say No.

I hope they can achieve that with tough talking, but I suspect the Mullahs will laugh in their faces. In which case, I hope they can back up their threats with action. If not, we may as well all start learning Persian and getting directions to the nearest mosque.

And yes, I'm prepared to pay for it if that's what it comes to.

"Normally I just lurk around threads like this, mostly because the level of discourse is ridiculous at best. But the level of stupidity shown in many of these posts just cries out for some common sense and perspective. (sorry Mods for the stupidity comment).

A) It is important to this discussion to note, that the country of Iran has not attacked another nation in over 300 years! There are few of the so called civilized nations that can make this boast. Israel has attacked all of it's neighbors multiple times."

You just lumped yourself in with those in the first paragraph with your second. I recommend something in a history book. Found at most Barnes & Nobles or your local book store downtown. Seriously. Look into it.

yes i agree but where could this all be coming from?