Every One Speaks about HAARP, but did you know...

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posted on Sep, 27 2009 @ 01:08 PM

Originally posted by Phage
Nothing would happen.
...nothing noticeable

So your saying they are spending billions on these establishments around the world but their result would be 'nothing'?

You skeptobunkers sure live in a Rose Colored Dream World

Space Port

Metron Cube - compare to antenna placement at Holt

Metatron's cube set within the Seed of Life, the shape which when continued in the same way creates the Flower of life, from which Metatrons cube can be formed. Metatrons cube contains all 5 ot the Platonic solids in 2D form.

[edit on 27-9-2009 by zorgon]

posted on Sep, 27 2009 @ 02:26 PM
reply to post by zorgon


In answer to the question about what would happen if all of the installations were "turned on" at the same time, I'm saying that we would notice nothing. I'm saying that nothing would happen to the weather, nor would a "shield" be created.

I'm saying it doesn't matter if one is "turned on" or if all of them are, it would have no effect on the weather, nor would it create a "shield". There is not enough power produced any one of them or all of them combined to have any such effects. I'm saying that compared to the power input of the Sun, these installations are insignificant. Of course, you left that out of your quote.

Some of the "billions" being spent are actually being spent on research on exactly what real effects the billions of gigawatts from the Sun have on the ionosphere.

[edit on 9/27/2009 by Phage]

posted on Sep, 27 2009 @ 03:08 PM

I don't understand the need to transmit signals using the ionosphere.
It seems satellite would be much easier.

Well lets see. The costs to put up a satellite, and the deals that need to be made just to get someone to launch it and position it into the right spot... cost millions and millions.
Now instead buy some land, stick some antennas on it, connect your transmitter and send your signal up till it hits the ionosphere where it will bounce back down to earth, then bounce back up to the ionosphere, then back down to earth doing skips like that ( thats why the signal is sometimes called skip). The cost? Not millions and millions, to do the same job a satellite does.
I can see why they don't bother using satellites.

posted on Sep, 27 2009 @ 03:43 PM
Silver... I am glad you did not decide to start putting up info on antenna theory. I have a book several inches thick just on amateur radio antennas.

Antenna theory is one huge subject, and thats just antennas. Radio theory could fill many more books inches thick.

I still don't see any connection between ALL of these sites. Sure some may be used on conjunction with each other. Some may have sinister uses. Some may heat the ionosphere, some may do other secret jobs. Who knows.
But all the mentioned stations linked? Just does not fit for me. Specially when some seem to run on frequencies that simply do not effect the ionosphere, but go right through it.
Without going into RF theory to much, as a general rule, lower frequencies of the RF spectrum will bounce of the ionosphere better then higher frequencies, such as microwave frequencies. The really low frequencies, such as what are used by HAARP also tend to go under water better. Hence why most likely HAARP is used mainly for submarine communications. Its location makes sense being not to far from the Arctic which is one area that crawled with both US and Russian subs during the cold war.
The frequency ranges all have their own uses. This is one reason why HAARP has always been suspected of doing things to the ionosphere. But some of the stations in the original post could not bounce a signal off the ionosphere no matter how hard they tried. High power of a signal does not make it bounce of the ionosphere. The frequency is what determines this mainly.

An interesting OP and thread none the less, but to me all these sits being 'connected' as a global shield does not add up at all. Information on the internet may somehow link these sites, but I think many people on this forum take what they read on the internet to literal.

Sites like this dot the world for many reasons. It does not mean they are connected.

p.s. Did I read somewhere that the Russian Woodpecker has been shut down anyway?

posted on Sep, 27 2009 @ 11:00 PM
reply to post by zorgon

The sacred Navy VLF transmitter is quite impressive not only to look at but more importantly that the mil knows and applys such concepts

Oops its 'officially' not US navy any more....Change the name and no-one will complain

posted on Sep, 28 2009 @ 12:56 AM
wow heaps of info to sift through. well done on all the work collecting all that. for the uninitiated can we get some bullet points of what there sites are supposed to be doing? just a quick summery of what you views on the topic are?

posted on Sep, 28 2009 @ 01:40 AM

Originally posted by TiM3LoRd
just a quick summery of what you views on the topic are?

No sorry I don't do quick summaries

posted on Sep, 28 2009 @ 02:00 AM
reply to post by Somamech

I believe Boeing maintains the facility nowadays.
It also appears to be quite dormant.

posted on Sep, 28 2009 @ 02:32 AM
reply to post by Phage

Surely the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

Setting up a resonance and bouncing the waves off the ionosphere could compound the effects to create a shield.

Regarding the Metatron cude, here are seven relevant hermetic axioms:



Regarding principle 3: ""everything is in motion";"everything vibrates"; "nothing is at rest"; ...this Hermetic Principle was enunciated thousands of years ago, by the Masters of Ancient Egypt"

I guess an exercise would be to map the coordinates of the installations and see how they are positioned around the globe, to bolster Zorgon's claim for any nefarious intent.

posted on Sep, 28 2009 @ 04:00 AM
That would be possible if many of the sites operated at frequencies that will bounce off the ionosphere, which many of the ones listed do not.
The only other thing that such transmitters could effect in the atmosphere would be maybe water and other common gases. These could possible be oscillated if effected by the right frequencies and given huge amounts of power. Remember this is how your microwave oven works. It oscillates water molecules at about 2.4Ghz, which is of course a microwave frequency. To high to bounce off the ionosphere, but will heat water. Though given around a kilowatt of power is needed for the average microwave oven, it would mean absolutely huge amounts of power would be needed to heat large areas of the atmosphere. And I am talking about millions of kilowatts. I doubt anyone working with in a good region around such a transmitter would live for very long at all. I doubt such transmitters even exist. Such electronics would not handle RF power like that very well for any long period of time.

posted on Sep, 28 2009 @ 05:37 AM
reply to post by Essan

U.k is part of this project SLICE meteor radar. www.sgo.fi... . Sorry if this had been

mentioned before. Do you find this info useful?

posted on Sep, 28 2009 @ 08:59 AM

Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by Somamech

I believe Boeing maintains the facility nowadays.
It also appears to be quite dormant.

Quite true!

Boeing Defence Australia provides base operations and maintenance services to the Australian Department of Defence at the Harold E. Holt Naval Communications Station at Exmouth, Western Australia.

A thorough understanding of the site, developed during the delivery of these services for over a decade, has enabled Boeing Defence Australia to continually exceed site availability service requirements.

Boeing Defence Australia delivers the following capabilities through the Harold E. Holt Naval Communications Station:

* 24 hour-a-day seven days-a-week very low frequency communication links between Australian and US submarine fleets
* facilities and grounds maintenance
* emergency response services
* engineering data
* antenna maintenance
* logistics support.


posted on Sep, 28 2009 @ 11:03 AM
This one is looking Haarpish

Chung Li National Central University Taiwan

The following are the fields related to atmospheric and ionospheric sciences, which are the best / top in Taiwan, even in Asia:

First Academic Institutes and Departments of their types to be established in Taiwan:

* Earth System Sciences / College of Earth Sciences
* Low Altitude Atmospheric and Meteorological Science / Department of Atmospheric Science
* High Altitude Atmospheric and Space Science / Graduate Institute of Space Science

* Remote Sensing / Center for Space and Remote Sensing Research

Top and Leading Researches:

* Atmospheric Physics and Meteorology
* Atmospheric and Meteorological Modeling / Numerical Weather Prediction
* Space-boned Observation of Atmosphere and Ionosphere
* Ground-based Radar Technology and Remote Sounding
* Low Latitude Ionospheric Tomographic Network
* GPS Radio Occultation Data Analysis and Its Application
* Ionospheric Measurements, Magnetoelectric Dynamics, and Modeling
* Remote Sensing Science and Technology

Top Equipment and Instrument

* Integrated Sounding System (ISS) and Weather Radar for teaching and research.
* Chung-LI VHF Radar, a MST ( Mesosphere-Stratosphere-Troposphere) radar with two sets of antenna array.
* Lulin Observatory: Taiwan’s highest observatory, includes atmospheric chemistry (background station,) air glow (ionospheric photochemistry interaction,) and astronomical observations.
* Ionosphere Observation Network.
* Space Plasma Simulation Chamber.

Overall, National Central University possesses the best conditions and resolute positions, to contribute all of the Science to our world with all sincerity.

[edit on 28-9-2009 by Somamech]



[edit on 28-9-2009 by Somamech]

posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 01:54 AM
reply to post by Phage

While the "drop in the bucket" argument Phage presents is certainly persuasive, it fails to address the subtleties inherent in this topic. Sure, one could rightly compare the energy input to the ionosphere of a facility like HAARP to "heating a river with a hair dryer", but that is much too simplistic a metaphor. The ionosphere not a river. The atmosphere is not a bucket. HAARP and the rest are not hairdryers. Here I present you with a less-simplistic description, but I do reserve the right to make my own analogies. That said, here goes...

Imagine the effect of a 100W lightbulb on the temperature of your skin at a distance of 100 meters. Insignificant. Now imagine we replace the lightbulb with a 100W infrared laser. Yikes.

Ionospheric heaters are designed to direct focused energy at specific frequencies to a compact region in the near-Earth environment-- they are more like lasers than hairdryers.


No question, there is a huge influx of energy to the Earth. Photons and particles from the sun bombard the near-Earth environment with an abusive array of assaults. A shield? Yeah we gotta shield. We have the magnetosphere. We have the ionosphere. Charged particles are captured by the Earth's magnetic field and spiral into the ionosphere where they collide with each other and atmospheric atoms and molecules and so on...

Obviously, this is a a big subject we are examining here. It is clear that the branch of physics associated with plasma dynamics is especially relevant to the study of the near-earth environment. Much of the research being done at these geophysical laboratories is geared towards refining our geophysical models to better explain the dynamics of this very complex system.

I think we can all agree that the energy flux from the Sun into the earth is super-hyper-mega-HUGE! Petawatts! So where does this energy go?

Well, all sorts of places, really, but a good chunk of it, in the Gigawatts on a good day, goes into the electrojets, which are giant rings of plasma which carry current around the earth. There are three primary electrojet currents; one about the equator and two near the poles. These plasma currents wiggle and wave with variations in the earth's magnetic field, and the sun's magnetic field, and with the effect of ebbs and flows in the solar wind. They can also be modulated with carefully crafted radio signals.

Modulation of the electrojet currents has been demonstrated with ionospheric heaters numerous times. There can be a huge amplification effect. The situation is in some ways analogous to the way a vacuum tube amplifier works. In many common vacuum-tube amplifiers, a current of plasma is disrupted by a small input signal, causing a large variation in the main current. A small input which modifies the plasma can produce a large result. Similarly, a relatively small amount of power can be injected into the electrojet, and result in a large overall effect. This technique is now routinely used to generate ELF waves for numerous applications, including earth-penetrating tomography and long-distance communication.


Ionospheric heaters can be used to accelerate and direct beams of high-energy particles in the magnetosphere. By tapping-into the large flux of charged particles which interact with our magnetic field, cyclotron resonance can be established and modulated within the local plasma environment; effectively behaving as a particle accelerator in the sky. The capability exists to accelerate particles ranging in size from electrons to uranium nuclei to relativistic velocities, and to then direct those particles towards other parts of the magnetosphere or even to cause them to precipitate towards the surface.

(continued in next post)

posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 01:56 AM
reply to post by zerotensor

(continued from above)

Typically this is accomplished by using an ionospheric heater to establish a zone of cyclotron resonance in the iononsphere, and then illuminating this zone with one or more a secondary transmitters. Magnetometers, particle detectors in orbit, radio telescopes, riometers, and myraiad other radars and instruments provide real-time data to the experimenters, allowing them to adjust the output of their machines dynamically to accomodate the changing conditions in the plasma environment.


While here I have only scratched the surface of this broad and complex topic, I hope that these examples serve to illustrate some of the general properties of the near earth environment and the technology which is capable of perturbing it. The fact is that we are dealing with a plasma envrionment which is highly nonlinear and far from equilibruim. This admits the possibility that a relatively small amount of energy, if properly organized, can produce large resultant effects. With the development of increasingly sophisticated models of these systems and the computational capacity required to take advantage of these models, we now have the capability to engineer some very signifigant effects within the near earth environment.

Furthermore, this capability often relies on the cooperation of a number of different technologies distributed across the globe and in orbit. The ability to generate ELF from a number of different sources allows complex 3D interference patterns to be created in the electromagnetic field in and around the earth. Feedback from sensors around the globe allow the effects to be monitored and enhanced in realtime. Coordinated transmissions from multiple facilities can achieve results which a single facility would not be capable-of alone.


Well, this post is admittedly a long-winded response to Phage's terse "Nothing!", but my main point is that a surface-level, "total-energy" argument against the possibility of significant effects from this family of technologies is simple-minded and crude. The nature of the medium on which these various technologies operate is mind-bogglingly complex, nonlinear, and is permeated by a vast flux of energy. These kinds of facilities can and usually do coordinate their activities, sometimes because together they can achieve effects any single one of them could not.

[edit on 30-9-2009 by zerotensor]

[edit on 30-9-2009 by zerotensor]

posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 03:12 AM
Here's my contribution to the catalog. Forgive me if it was mentioned here elsewhere, but I didn't notice it.


Currently located at Poker Flat, the Advanced Modular Incoherent Scatter Radar (AMISR), run by SRI international, is a flexible and high-tech radar array capable of a wide variety of operations. It is designed with a modular architecture which allows it to be easily relocated. Its primary use is for monitoring of the charged-particle environment in the ionosphere.

more here:
AMISR (SRI International)

[edit on 30-9-2009 by zerotensor]

[edit on 30-9-2009 by zerotensor]

posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 12:36 PM
Sweet sweet reply Zerotensor

Here's the rest of the JORN network located in the Harts Range's and Alice Springs

Harts Range Transmitter

Google earth co-ords

22.967561°S 134.447937°E

Alice Springs Receiver:

Google earth co-ords

23.521497°S 133.677521°E

Looking for Job in this system I can even provide a link to get you in

Courtesy of BAE Systems... Heck they mention JORN


Across air, land and sea, BAE Systems' team of more than 6,500 talented employees have Australia's defence needs covered. What's more, BAE Systems is a great place to work.

Of particular note is the work done by the BAE Systems Jindalee Over The Horizon Radar (JORN) teams in Alice Springs – the heart of Australia. The close knit Alice Springs based teams are responsible, in partnership with the JORN team in South Australia, for the ongoing operation, maintenance and development support for Radar 3 of the JORN Network located near Alice Springs. To meet the needs of our team in Harts Range, new opportunities have been created.

Located some 160km North East from Alice Springs, Harts Range offers a unique career and lifestyle opportunity. Employees enjoy generous wages, leave provisions and allowances and free company supplied housing and utilities along with company funded remote schooling and swimming pool/recreation facilities. Harts Range also offers a strong sense of community to those who call it home.

Not so far away, Alice Springs, with a population of more than 24,000 people, has a world-class teaching hospital, a first rate university, both private and public schools, shopping malls and extensive recreational facilities including cinemas, a golf course and a well equipped swimming pool complex. To learn more about Alice Springs, the heart of Australia visit: www.alicesprings.nt.gov.au...

Working on a rotating shift basis, under limited supervision, Technical Officers perform technical maintenance/repair activities associated with a variety of equipment including high power RF transmitters, digital receivers, waveform generators, communications equipment, computer systems, digital processing and systems control equipment, with fault diagnosis and investigation being a key focus of the role.

In more specific terms, the successful applicant will:

* Carry out transmitter site technical support for the radar transmitter and associated systems
* Ensure technical specifications are met via liaison with the responsible engineer
Perform bench and system level maintenance on electronic equipment used in the radar and associated test jigs
* Perform planned maintenance on the radar at all levels
* Accurately record radar faults in the database and interface with users to rectify faults
* Carry out rectification of deficiencies and defects within the site and assist in technical investigations for technical hardware issues
* Operate and perform operational level maintenance to all radar support and facilities equipment
* Relieve the Shift Supervisor if required

Hmm images seem to be resized here, must use my own hosting for posts like this

posted on Sep, 30 2009 @ 03:44 PM
reply to post by zerotensor

Thanks for some real information about what the heaters do. But not all of what you say is correct.

Your comparison of ionospheric heaters to a laser is inaccurate. A laser produces a coherent beam of electromagnetic radiation. Because it is coherent, a tight beam is maintained and energy loss is minimized. The high frequency radio signal produced by ionospheric heaters is not a coherent beam and it loses very much energy by the time it reaches its target altitude. For example, using the full HAARP antenna array (22.6acres) at 9.9MHz; the net radiated power at the antenna is 3.55mW (about 35W/m2), at an altitude of 100km (quite low) the area of ionosphere affected is about 17,297 acres and the power density is .04 W/m2. The “beam” has spread by a factor of 765 and the energy contained in it has been vastly diluted. Sunlight on the Earth's surface provides about 120 W/m2. If you were in the middle of the “beam” at the target altitude you would feel absolutely nothing from it, the targeted ions do because of the specific frequency used. Your example of a 100W light bulb is much closer to reality than the laser is.

The generation of ELF radio waves is one area of ionospheric research. Recent (2008) experiments have verified that it can be done. The use of natural ELF/VLF sources (i.e. lightning, aurora) for geophysical surveying has been carried out with some success but I can find no work indicating that artificially produced radiation is being used for any practical purposes at this time.

I can find no work indicating that ionospheric heaters can send high energy particle beams into the magnetosphere (or anywhere else). Electron Cyclotron Resonance is the effect whereby electrons absorb energy from radio frequency radiation. As demonstrated, the energy available from the heater is low, certainly not enough to accelerate much of anything to relativistic velocities. It does not create a particle beam, it causes existing electrons in the Earth's magnetic field to revolve faster and collide with atoms to produce more ions which are also heated. Perhaps some clarification on how ions and nuclei can be accelerated and directed in the manner you describe would be helpful. I would like to know about the secondary transmitters. From what I'm familiar with, the transmitters are not capable of much directional control meaning the heating activity occurs more or less directly above the transmitter.

Please note that I did not say nothing would happen if all of the heaters were activated. I said nothing noticeable would happen and that is true. Of course, as Zorgon pointed out, it would be pointless if literally nothing happened but the effects are only detectable by sensitive instrumentation on the ground. Without use of that instrumentation, nothing noticeable would (or does) occur.


[edit on 9/30/2009 by Phage]

posted on Oct, 1 2009 @ 05:30 AM
People will always fear something that they dont fully understand. Full transparancy of this organisation is the only way to put peoples minds at rest...or confirm their fears!!!

[edit on 1-10-2009 by whatyagonnado]

posted on Oct, 1 2009 @ 02:56 PM
What's odd is that I posted a company that has commercial application of using plasma beams directed from Earth, and in their own words " To manipulate space junk"

Its more proof for me that some believe pheromones and others GET the Vibe

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