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Every One Speaks about HAARP, but did you know...

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posted on Sep, 26 2009 @ 08:34 PM
Blue Skies.

I will be very happy to discuss and debate antenna design theory with you.

Would you like to start a new thread where we can discuss radiation resistance, field patterns, impedance matching, and conjugate coupling and such ?

[edit on 26/9/2009 by Silver Shadow]

posted on Sep, 26 2009 @ 08:43 PM
reply to post by zorgon

Seriously zorgon, I thought that HAARP was the one and only. You have certainly broadened my horizons here. Absolutely fantastic my friend. Star and flagged.

I have concluded to myself that they are all collaborative facilities. They must be. Admittedly I haven't read everything you posted, but I did look at all of the posts and skimmed through it because I was overwhelmed. I am going to go back and read the material before I ask a stupid question. Great work here.

posted on Sep, 26 2009 @ 09:12 PM
OK, there is too much information here - not like the "too many tones" thrown at Mozart by the Kaiser.
What does it all mean?
Begich says it's weapons and possibly controlling behavior, experiments heating up the ionosphere.
Many others in videos/books say it is for controlling people directly or to do superweapon games.
-If all these exist that you showed, what are we getting ready for? Other than a lot of people dying for envirnomental cancers and even more will be depressed due to the continual return waves of haarp-like instruments.
Or are they fighting, jamming each other's signals, like humans do in communication? Sometimes I get into a Nizhniy-Novgorod mode, sometimes and Arecibo mood will pass over me - and none of these is my own design?

After listing all these sights, why not list all the major theoretical implications? Starting with the craziest sounding one - mass murder experiment by electronic mind control in Rwanda began with radiating heloicopters boosting a large signal at .... Hz. Then, the earthquake stuff. Super lightnings as weapons.
Then finally they may be only as bad a CERN.... and your preferences and counterarguments. Your long list of interesting facts would be done justice.

posted on Sep, 26 2009 @ 09:17 PM
Gov'ts may not work towards a mutual goal, or if they appear too they do it badly...but the scientific world does not operate in the same environment.

Scientific projects are routinely shared and discussed across political spectrum's, research and results quietly distributed, kept under the table and away from public need to know.

This is how its been done for hundreds of years, there is a face the world see's cultures colliding and govts interact; ; socialism Vs capitalism, Conservative Vs Liberal government, etc

There is a completely different face of cooperation and research, tactic Govt approval without public knowledge. I would not be surprised if these systems are linked somehow, maybe individual research with agreement to combine if /when the need ever arose, etc.
With all the varying conspiracies on ATS; alien invasion, extinction from meteors, alien intervention, etc, etc...only one of them needs to be correct to support a need for planet wide system to intercept, deflect, etc.

posted on Sep, 26 2009 @ 09:47 PM
reply to post by Indigenous equity

Even at the height of the cold war US and Russian scientists were working together on Very Long Baseline Interferometry. Networking telescopes on opposite sides of the earth gave them the parallax they needed to view deep into the center of the universe.

As a defensive weapon global ionosphere monitoring for the purpose of detecting ICBM's would have to be networked to react very quickly. There must be a spider somewhere monitoring the ionospheric web ready to react with countermeasures the second it senses the transit of a missile.

posted on Sep, 26 2009 @ 10:05 PM
Ionospheric prediction is as important as weather forecasting.

There are optimum operating frequencies for very long haul (non satellite) communications that use the ionosphere to bounce high frequency radio signals around the curvature of the earth.

For reliable communications with ships and aircraft (over oceans), this is very important to know which radio channels to switch to when communications fails.

So in one sense, the Ionospheric Prediction Service (IPS) is a world wide system of cooperation where information is freely exchanged between nations.

There are radio stations you can tune to, to get the latest radio propagation forecasts, just as you can get the latest weather forecasts for your immediate region.

posted on Sep, 26 2009 @ 11:13 PM

Originally posted by Silver Shadow
I will be very happy to discuss and debate antenna design theory with you.

Here we go again: Another one who can not read
"carefuly" what is writen in an answer.
MY answer did NOT AT ALL deal with antenna design. . .
and your yada yada yada ! !
You know and all know we each have our expertise ! !
The only expertise required HERE, is to be ABLE to
understand what is seen in a top photo !

There you are:,114.126191&spn=0.022134,0.027466&t=k&z=15&iwloc=A
and read that one CAREFULY, this time ! !
It should confirm that what we see, are the roads !

While we are at it, then, on the site it says

. . .etched in the scrub. . .

English is NOT my primary language, soooooo plz tell me, if REQUIRED,
what the above quote means ??? if you are SURE I did not catch it !
If they ARE roads, no need you and I pollute the thread anymore
with the obvious roads and plz, no answer expected.
( If I seem harsh/aggresive, you did first. Want me to point to it? )

Roads' case closed, I guess.

Blue skies.

posted on Sep, 26 2009 @ 11:50 PM
Out of curiosity what would be the global effect if all those HAARP systems around were activated simultaneously?

I haven't yet finished reading your post to see if you had that information.

posted on Sep, 27 2009 @ 12:03 AM

Originally posted by Essan
Why's there nowhere in the UK?

I know you guys don't always like to include Wales

Capel Dewi, Carmarthenshire, Wales, United Kingdom
near Aberystwyth, Wales, UK
+52° 25' 28.26", -4° 00' 19.59"

Or are we just too primitive to be involved?

Well we also gave you that nice ECHELON Intercept Station at Menwith Hill, England and one at Morwenstow but the ECHELON network is a whole new thread

Don't be greedy

Edit to add...

Did do some more digging... seems the UK supports EISCAT

Welcome to the UK EISCAT Support Group
Rutherford Appleton Laboratory

P J S Williams 1939–2003

Fellow and Councillor of the RAS, respected solar–terrestrial physicist and powerful advocate of EISCAT, Welsh political activist.

This article led me to a French site but also mentions this;

Phil's scientific career was bound up with ionospheric incoherent scatter radar. The technique, devised by Bowles and Gordon in the USA, had been demonstrated in Illinois in 1957 and brilliantly applied in the 60s at a few sites, notably Jicamarca (Peru), Arecibo (Puerto Rico), Millstone Hill (Massachusetts) and Saint-Santin/Nançay (France). It measures density, temperature and velocity of ions and electrons throughout the ionosphere, in contrast to conventional ionospheric sounders that only measure electron density up to the ionospheric F2 peak. In Britain a powerful incoherent scatter radar began operating in 1968 at the (then) Royal Radar Establishment, Malvern, and was developed into a multistatic system, using as receiving sites the radio telescopes at Chilbolton, Hants, and Jodrell Bank “Mark III”. Phil's contribution was to move part of a large antenna, previously used at Lord's Bridge for the Cambridge 3C radio-source survey, and install it on a site near Aberystwyth. It completed the “MISCAT” system which, despite its relatively low power, was in 1972 the first incoherent scatter radar to measure three-dimensional drift velocities in the ionosphere.

Malvern and Aberystwyth
Now I have to see if I can find them

[edit on 27-9-2009 by zorgon]

posted on Sep, 27 2009 @ 12:07 AM
Well Blue Skies.

You accused me of knowing nothing about radio systems or antennas.
As a matter of interest I do have significant qualifications and expertise in those directions.

I will say it again,
The large radio systems shown here have very diverse operating parameters that mostly have entirely unrelated functions. HAARP is a unique system, and is a special case, because of the secrecy surrounding it.

As to what would happen if every radio transmitter on Earth was simultaneously energised.... Nothing you would ever notice.

As it is, the entire radio spectrum is already filled with crap on every imaginable frequency. The already chaotic noise level would just increase a bit more.

posted on Sep, 27 2009 @ 12:10 AM
reply to post by Ragon

Nothing would happen. The Sun hits the ionosphere with millions of times more power than all of the facilities combined.

...nothing noticeable

Correction. Make that billions (and billions) of times more power.
Total solar insolation of the outer atmosphere is 174 petawatts. That's 17.4 million gigawatts.

[edit on 9/27/2009 by Phage]

posted on Sep, 27 2009 @ 02:24 AM
That was a GREAT tour of the world's many radio research facilities!!! S & F!!

It's so nice when someone puts in the effort to gather, organize, and share information like that - it's what the web is all about. If I wasn't so sleepy now I'd continue researching this.

You Rock!!

posted on Sep, 27 2009 @ 02:48 AM

Originally posted by zorgon

Malvern and Aberystwyth
Now I have to see if I can find them

Well Malvern's not far from me. But I don't think there's anything to see on the ground. Just a research establishment. Nearest we have round here are the disused (?) radar dishes at former RAF Defford

Pictures here:

Now, interesting coincidences: this was one of the places where radar was developed in WWII. And the other important place for that was Bawdsey Manor in Suffolk - which is not far from RAF Bentwaters, near where I lived in the 1980s (my parents owned the pub in the nearby village of Tunstall). Bentwaters was the site of the infamous Rendesham Forest UFO case. And just up the coast from Bawdsey Manor, and close to Bentwaters is Orford Ness which even today is a closed area and no-one really knows exactly what research was carried out there.

But that all leads us to this article in Fortean Times:

Project Kugleblitz

Orford Ness was home to Britain’s early radar-based research in the 1930s. As World War II loomed, much of that work was transferred to RAF Bawdsey, several miles south of Orford Ness, but still on the fringes of Rendlesham Forest. And sens­itive projects continued to be developed in the area for many years, such as “Cobra Mist” – an “over the horizon” radar system developed in the late 1960s to provide advance warning of any attempted aerial attack on the British Isles.

~ ~ ~

To this writer, at least, reports [Rendesham Forest UFO Incident] of beams of light seen in conjunction with moving lights that emitted glowing particles, sound very much like someone putting into pract­ice the theoretical plans cited within the pages of the “Survey of Kugelblitz Theories for Electromagnetic Incendiaries” document, namely the control and utilisation of ball-lightning phenomena via lasers.

~ ~ ~

Was some sort of clandestine experiment of the type envisaged in the 1965 Edgewood Arsenal documentation secretly undertaken in Rendlesham Forest in 1980?

Okay, we've gone from HAARP to radar development to Ball Lightning weapons ...... but it;s fun seeing where these things lead

[edit on 27-9-2009 by Essan]

posted on Sep, 27 2009 @ 05:29 AM
This has been a very informative thread Zorgon.

One thing that I have noticed, is there are a large number of individuals who seem to be under the impression that they are fully informed with regards to the capabilities of the technologies you have discussed.

As you well know, there are often multiple versions of the truth with regards to such operation and technologies; the public version, and the versions for those with a need to know. That so many purposefully refuse to acknowledge this reality has been a clear hindrance to this discussion, though that appears to have been the intention.

It is strange how when you talk about this, and all of a sudden governments start becoming trustworthy again, their information true, accurate and complete- their institutions become paragons of virtue, if only for this sort of thread.

As such, I am quite impressed with the work you have done thus far - you have done an excellent job of determining the possible capabilities and nature of these systems. Your perseverance in the face of such hostility and intentional mental inaptitude is certainly a marvel. I'd give you two stars if I could.

[edit on 27-9-2009 by Exuberant1]

posted on Sep, 27 2009 @ 06:42 AM

Originally posted by Exuberant1

As you well know, there are often two version of the truth with regards to such operation and technologies; the public version, and the version for those with a need to know.


If there is a hidden/secret application to the sites, the best ways to hide it's secret purpose is behind a scientific label.

The site in Andøya, Norway is situated as close to the main road as physically possible, and their closest neighbor (using the beaches close by) is a camping site (Andenes Camping).

If there's any hidden purposes to this site, it's hidden in plain sight...

posted on Sep, 27 2009 @ 06:59 AM

What a lot of time and research! The info is overwhelming!

Could this be the original HAARP prototype?

posted on Sep, 27 2009 @ 07:52 AM
i wonder what "space-craft" and "spade - craft" refers to in this document:

""Electrons accelerated to energy levels in the 14-20 eV range would
produce new ionization in the ionosphere, via collisions with neutral
particles. This suggests that it may be possible to "condition" the
ionosphere so that it would support HF propagation during periods when
the natural ionosphere was especially weak. This could potentially be
exploited for long range (OTH) HF communication/surveillance purposes.
Finally, the use of an HF heater to accelerate electrons to KeV or MeV
energy levels could be used, in conjunction with satellite sensor
measurements, for controlled investigations of the effects of high energy
electrons on space platforms. There already is indication that high power
transmitters on space-craft accelerate electrons in space to such high
energy levels, and that those charged particles can impact on the spade-
craft with harmful effects. The processes which trigger such phenomena
and the development of techniques to avoid or mitigate them could be
investigated as part of the DOD program."""

makes you wonder though.

[edit on 27-9-2009 by jimmyx]

[edit on 27-9-2009 by jimmyx]

[edit on 27-9-2009 by jimmyx]

posted on Sep, 27 2009 @ 11:29 AM
reply to post by jimmyx

A space-craft is any craft in space. A satellite is a space-craft.

Devices, either manned or unmanned, which are designed to be placed into an orbit about the earth or into a trajectory to another celestial body. Also known as a space ship; space vehicle.

A spade-craft is a typographic error of "space-craft" by who ever it was who transcribed the executive summary for that website.

That section is talking about using HAARP to learn how to protect satellites from the effects of their own transmitters on the ionosphere. The transmitters on the satellite can create a cloud of charged particles which can damage it.

[edit on 9/27/2009 by Phage]

posted on Sep, 27 2009 @ 12:14 PM
reply to post by Silver Shadow

I was not talking about antenas!!!
and Zorgon and I, did see their SHAPE and/or GEOMETRY ! ! !

Never mind.

posted on Sep, 27 2009 @ 12:33 PM

Originally posted by Essan
Okay, we've gone from HAARP to radar development to Ball Lightning weapons ...... but it;s fun seeing where these things lead

So now YOU are telling me that crazy British scientists in the 60's used 'radar' to develop plasma energy weather weapons?

Just fell off my chair

[edit on 27-9-2009 by zorgon]

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